I am going to order some new felling wedges and I was wondering which one you guys like?
Probabley the "red heads " sold by Baileys and other can take more abuse .They cost a little more but can take bad hit better than others .It doesn't take too much of a bad hit to bust the cheap ones right into .
Now it does a person very little good to use 12" wedges on 16" trees .You'll only beat them to a pulp on the ends .Use whatever length as deemed appropriate for the size on the trees .
I like the 6" plastic, as they fit well in my back pockets. I also have some 8" for backup plans.
Doesn't take much, just enough to tighten up in the kerf and keep the tree from setting back and closing the kerf. Light taps on two or three wedges placed in the kerf will lift a lot of weight to tip the tree over (is what I find anyway).
I have 8" and 12" wedges. I have bought the bright colored red ones from bailey's, they do take a lot of abuse and keep going. The green ones are a bit more brittle. The rifled ones (grooved) are nice if you need to stack wedges. Now I have some from a local mfg. havent run them through the paces yet. Bailey's has a good selection at decent prices, and they are a FF sponsor, how cool is that!?! 8)
I use metal ones- tool steel. When I have a heavy leaner the last thing I need is problems.
Quote from: shelbycharger400 on August 30, 2012, 03:54:28 PM
I use metal ones- tool steel. When I have a heavy leaner the last thing I need is problems.
ever nick one of those with your saw? Ouch! I really like the plastic ones, never have to worry about nicking a wedge with the saw and screwing up the chain.
Quote from: mad murdock on August 30, 2012, 04:29:10 PM
Quote from: shelbycharger400 on August 30, 2012, 03:54:28 PM
I use metal ones- tool steel. When I have a heavy leaner the last thing I need is problems.
ever nick one of those with your saw? Ouch! I really like the plastic ones, never have to worry about nicking a wedge with the saw and screwing up the chain.
I'm with mad murdock on that one. I've nicked the plastic ones too many times. I'm afraid I would have ruined a few saw chains if I had used steel wedges! yikes_smiley
I use the the big orange/red power wedge 453 and clark tranny.
ever knick a wedge? a few close calls..lol but when you bring 2 or 3 with and a sledge hammer, and backcut almost all the way in, wack the wedge a few times and down she comes! I guess I learned the how to from my parents that usto do a tree service in the early 80's and cut seasonal firewood through late 90's
I've heard stories of people getting killed by pieces of metal flying off mushroomed metal wedges.
I use the red headed 8" and 12" wedges. They hold up well. My favorite brand are Hard Head wedges. There yellow with a metal plate wear you hit it. Take alot of abuse but are prone to cracking in cold weather.
Quote from: shelbycharger400 on August 30, 2012, 03:54:28 PM
I use metal ones- tool steel. When I have a heavy leaner the last thing I need is problems.
Never had a problem tipping heavy leaner with the plastic wedges, but then when its well below 0˚F, I'm probably not out cutting anyway. What kind of problems have you had with plastic wedges?
tyb525.. all my wedges are in excellent shape, and are over 30 years old! actually i have 2 more but are thinner than these, not shure where they are right now. My stepdad made these out of Tool steel but not flame hardened. Not shure if its A36 or P series. 2 1/2 x 1 1/2 x 9 inch
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26102/100_0477.JPG)
Those look like splitting wedges to me. Not felling wedges.
I can visualize not even getting those to slip into the chainsaw kerf.
But if they work for you, great.
I have used them for both! they fit in about an inch or so into a 3/8 kerf no problem, then a few inches more with a few light raps .
Plastic wedges...no thanks. I have one sitting on my slabber that was from a tree I had to drop for a homeowner. He broke 2 other ones off in the tree, he was only 3/4 the way through a 12 in dia oak. 3 plastic wedges in a dangerous homeowners hands let alone a chain saw. I will give you this, Im goin to pick up a few 6 in plastics, just for the slabber when i do oak slabs, felling... I grab my steels
What sizes do you guys like, I have always used 8's or 6's, was thinking of getting some 12's this time whenI order, I always used the Stihl Ones but they can be pricey at dealer figured I can order a bunch online.
The problem with a splitting wedge is not so much you might saw into it but more it might spit back at you and hit you in the knee or the family jewels .I've traveled that road and didn't like it even one little bit .Now an old steel felling wedge is worlds different than a splitting wedge .You won't find too many of those any more .
I like going to my local saw shop and buy the wooden wedges. I can make 1 wedge last a while if i don't cut it
I like the lime green ones Baileys sell but the shipping cost so much so Ive been buying orange ones from the company I get all my saw chain from so I only have one shipping cost. Ten inch and twelve inch and I carry them in a little wedge holder on my chaps
I use the 8" plastic ones from Baileys. I have never busted one, because like the Hound, I end up trimming them down with the chainsaw first :).
I use the 8 inch ones from Labonville. I have had 3-4 into one tree before.
shelbycharger400, A36 is a carbon steel such as used for I-beams and such, not a tool steel which is just as well since there is no benefit of using an un hardened tool steel for nearly anything. Most tool steels would be too brittle and throw pieces when struck.
I like aluminum wedges :) My local saw shop carries them.
Never used Felling wedges, if i needed a wedge I'd use the wedge I cut out of the tree or Cut one quick and use a branch as a hammer
I use the plastic ones the most and make wood ones if I need extra wedges, I recently picked some girlie pink wedges at saw shop on sale for half off. I am sure the loggers walked right past them for a couple years <GRIN> bright "hot pink" ain't exactly what I had in mind but half off was nice and I have not lost one or hacked one up yet because they really stand out.
Quote from: Bobus2003 on August 30, 2012, 10:15:04 PM
Never used Felling wedges, if i needed a wedge I'd use the wedge I cut out of the tree or Cut one quick and use a branch as a hammer
Curious how you do that. Any pics of a wedge fashioned in the woods?
I usually use a short branch for a club, but don't understand your wedge technique.
Normally a wedge or two placed in the kerf and knocked in by hand will stay enough to ward off the kerf closing. Most of the time they are not needed, and some of the times a club is used to tighten them up. Some of the situations are due to wind, and some due to felling against the lean. Admit to some a result of misjudging the weight and lean.
I have felled a good many trees, but I am not a professional by any means, and have never done it on a logging production scale. I always use wedges as a matter of procedure, even when things look routine. I consider felling trees the most dangerous thing that I do.
I am having my neighbor do some felling for me, and I am so glad, he has been to the school MDC puts on. He carries an 8" in his back pocket, just a little tap tap tap by hand. He has worked timber most of his life, and it shows. All the trees I was worried about he layed parallel to the draw so I could get with my tractor. There is something to be said about a good feller, or a good fellow.
Does color mean anything?
Just your preference.
I like brightly colored wedges- less likely to get lost in the leaves. Some of mine are orange and some are neon green. The pink ones someone mentioned would be easy to see also. Takes a confident man to carry pink wedges! :-)
Quote from: JOE.G on August 31, 2012, 09:28:43 AM
Does color mean anything?
I think pink does, tree and the saw are afraid of it and who would mess with a feller who has pink wedges in his back pockets?
I never seen my father use a wedge or even own one. I'm going back as far as i can remember carrying a measure stick for my dad [1955] we used the measure stick as a push pole once in a while to push a tree over. My dad would always tell me right where the tree was going to go, and then show me how he pulled it that way. He made a game out of it, i learned you could basically fall any tree 3 directions. When i started falling at 12 yrs old, dad said be careful and off i went and started strip cutting. By the time i was 15 i was out cutting the best of them. I had a 53 Ford 2 door sedan and a 19 yr old girl friend.
When i fell out in Montana i carried wedges on my tool belt and a hatchet to pound with. I very seldom had to use them, i used the wet the finger to make sure witch way the wind was blowing and layed-em down.
Here in MN i never owned a wedge, i worked with many different loggers around here i never saw a guy carrying a wedge.The last out fit i worked for had as many as 44 crews in the woods at one time. I worked around many of these crews again i never seen a wedge in use. Depending what we were cutting or if i was using both skidders i fell 100 to 400 trees a day and this is directional falling not every direction like you may think.
I found this pic of my brother falling a Norway, this is about 3 months after i got hurt, i was still in the Hospital. The wife hired him to fall for her, shes on the skidder. My bother at this time has fell timber 29 yrs, he didn't dress like a logger, but was an excelled faller. They got up to 40 cds a day in tree length Aspen on this sale, you can see the poles up by the skidder. The trucks hauled-em as soon as they got-em out, you can see the hwy at the top of the pic. This is Hwy 46 about 3 miles out of Squaw Lake, Federal sale.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21649/scan0004.jpg)
Quote from: giant splinter on August 31, 2012, 11:17:42 AM
Quote from: JOE.G on August 31, 2012, 09:28:43 AM
Does color mean anything?
I think pink does, tree and the saw are afraid of it and who would mess with a feller who has pink wedges in his back pockets?
It's an anti-theft device :D
But seriously they just make them a hi-vis colour so when they fall off the stump as the tree falls, you can hopefully find them again in the brush.
Ian
Hey gspren
I put in a36 or P series, I have no idea what they are made out of, My stepdad made them when he worked at an aircraft machine shop, or a Heavy equipment/ building machines. They spark once an a while, definately not general mild steel! Now I do know they did oven annealing, as well as dip nitrogen as well. Id ask my stepdad but he has alzheimer's and wouldn't remember, he usto be a tool maker and a nc lathe operator turning turbine discs from jet engines.
Unhardened tool steel is actually rather "hard" and takes some abuse, it dosn't chip or fly apart when beat on, machining it is not fun, neither is grinding the stuff . Unhardened tool steel is used a lot! Die sets, injection molding, abrasion conditions, punch press die shoes. Hardened tool steel becomes brittle if not annealed correctly, most of the time it will ping when struck (think hammer to hammer noise) and if you strike brittle hard tool steel parts will fly. One of my best punches I made was a 400 series stainless steel shaft 2 ft long. It got stolen by someone.
I only use them once and a while, most of the felling I do is with cables and chains on heavy leaner small trees (12 to 18 in dia trees) Their is a reason why i have 75 ft of cable and 60 ft of chain! Parents house I have more than that.
Last tree line job I did in febuary-march I took down over 400 trees and only used them on 2 trees. The wind was the reason I had to use them this time. Heavy notches usually work the best with just a light tension on the front. I have done a diagonal sideways pull on a heavy back lean, It will go where you want it to if your cabled up right. 2 to 3 ft dia trees I have the cables on if I need it to drop in a clearing and not wanting a hanger, im not relyin on wedges!
I did a lot of taking trees down around homes, this is where i liked my S8 IH power shift when i had one leaning the wrong way. I had a 100' of cable on it, one of the main things is to hook high enough, so it don't kick out on you. I'd get the tree notched, then run the skidder out, set the throttle at just the right pull, walk back an cut the tree down. If the wife wasn't around to drive the skidder i'd rather do it like this alone. Every time i had somebody help they pull to hard, not hard enough, wrong time and ect. It can really get dangerous with somebody not knowing how to keep the right tension on the line.
Lumberjack 48, I'm with you on this one. I know the certification classes teach using wedges as a matter of routine, but I have never seen the need. I have used them, and carry one in the apron of my skidder, but very rarely find it's use neccesary. Other ways are quicker in most circumstances, and I learned to chop long before the modern certification classes. Wedges were a tool I was taught to use only when other, quicker means wouldn't work.
I suppose experience is the judge of this. If someone feels safer using a wedge as opposed to other ways, by all means I won't call you wrong.
The six and eight inch plastic ones get the job done. A friend of mine struck a steel one wrong, and it flew up and cut through cheek and gum, knocking out teeth. He carries the scars to this day. Hit those steel ones straight! :D
Can I ask a question to the more experienced fallers, who say they don't use wedges? I always thought ( I could be wrong) that the wedge was to stop the saw kerf from closing and pinching the saw bar, when you were making the back cut, if that is true then how do you stop the kerf from closing without using a wedge? Or is that not what a wedge is used for? ???
I'm not saying you should use a wedge or you should'nt , cause the truth is I have no idea. :D
The wedges are or could be used to make a tree fall where it does not want to go or for a just in case or I'm glad I put one in this time. I usually put a wedge in no matter what. I may only have to use the "I'm glad I put one in this time" phase with about 2 trees out of 50 I cut.On the few that don't fall right away, a few taps and over it goes.If the tree is cut correctly it will not lean back and pinch the bar,as long as you fall the tree the way it leans without a wedge. My father never used one until he got about his early 70's. I think new glasses would of helped him. We had a few "discussions" about which way a tree would fall. I kinda feel that wedges are like chaps. I use both because I never know when I will need them.When I make my notch and start my back cut,the tree will start to fall before I reach the notch. the last thing you want to do is saw a tree off at the stump. you need some holding wood to make it fall the way you want. I'm not good at words,but if you come to Chesterville Maine :D I can show ya how it's all done and why.
Quote from: Mark Wentzell on August 31, 2012, 08:22:39 PM
Can I ask a question to the more experienced fallers, who say they don't use wedges? I always thought ( I could be wrong) that the wedge was to stop the saw kerf from closing and pinching the saw bar, when you were making the back cut, if that is true then how do you stop the kerf from closing without using a wedge? Or is that not what a wedge is used for? ???
I'm not saying you should use a wedge or you should'nt , cause the truth is I have no idea. :D
That is one thing a wedge is used for. Another is to overcome back lean, so you can tip a tree the way you want it to go, rather than the way that it wants to go. Some heavy back leaners need more than one wedge: I'll drive in the first wedge, then put a cookie in the gap created, and drive another wedge on top of the cookie. This releases the first wedge, and if the tree hasn't tipped, you can put in a thicker cookie in the now wider gap, and drive your first wedge in on top of that. It sounds more involved than it really is, and can be done quickly - it's a good option if you don't have a skidder or tractor available, or don't want to tie that equipment up tipping trees.
When I lay out a cut, I plan the cut according to the general lean of the trees in a section. Simply put, most areas, there will be a general lean to the majority of the trees. Not all, of course, but setting up the cut to take advantage means fewer trees to fight with. If my yard is to the north but a section tends to lean south, I make a swing road to turn the wood, rather than fight every tree over. I don't have time to use wedges on every tree. Remember, I'm talking logging, not tree removal, where the game changes.
Most contrary trees I take over with the skidder, or play dominoes.Occasionally a push pole. Saftey gurus might puke, and it's definitely not a game for beginners.
I think a wedge is a good tool to know how and when to use, but I would find it's use on every tree far to time consuming, and, for me, unneccesary.
My "wedge" is right on top of the arch!! UN
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24436/3470/DSCF0264_JPGUN.jpg)
I rarely used wedges felling trees in the northern great
Lakes area, when I came out to Oregon, I got some wedges, and find that more often than not, they are needed out here moreso than where the ground is gentler. Maybe it's the lay of the land, I think it has more to do with the trees, almost all doug fir.
Well I got to use mine again today. Not on any big impressive trees or anything, more an overgrown hedge >:(
Port Orford Cedar trees that had been pruned into a hedge about 40 years ago, then left to grow. Multiple leaders, interlocking branches etc. Make things more interesting, put them on the side of a hill, above a road, and actually above some high voltage power wires. Then a glasshouse, various fences and the washing line on the other side.. ::)
So basically we had one slot they could be felled into, irrespective of the lean of the various leaders, they all had to go the exact same direction.
Didn't actually wedge them over, we had a steel cable and a tractor to provide some encouragement there. But I was tapping them in to stop the saw pinching on the back cut of the back leaners. Did manage to pinch the saw one time, but I had set a couple of wedges, so was able to give them a whack with a branch and release the saw. Didn't want to start winching as the branches were making funny twisty things happen as they came down, and I was stuck on the bad side making the cut. Set it all up, then get clear, THEN signal Jason to pull.
Not taking any risks, but no room for mistakes.
Actually did recover some useful logs out of the mess, will make another post later about progress with those.
Ian
Are the comments referring to "pullling" trees referring to the dutchman or soft dutchman style cuts? Or just skidder assistance? As far as the swing style notching (which I like to do) this would get us dropped by our insurance carrier. If the stumps don't show a decent hingewood (ie 80% w and 10% thick approx) you get a few warnings and that's that. At the same time im sure a few here and there wont hurt. This is why we use wedges. 8 and 10 inch plastic btw. One of each
Most fellers here do not use wedges. They just hang a $800 saw, take a smoke break, and wait for a $100K skidder to un-hang them. And think that it is funny. :-\
I found a set of Husqvarna Ones cheap, I ll try these ones out see how they hold up. I am enjoying the info.
I'm mostly using 12" wedges, even though they would bottom out against the back of the hinge on a good number of the trees I'm felling, if I weren't careful. When I come to a small tree with back lean, that is likely to need the wedge driven in all the way there are some tricks (boring the center of the hinge, for example) that allow longer wedges to still be used.
The more gradual taper of longer wedges makes them easier to drive in (and possibly less likely to spit back out ??). Also, a good number of the 8" wedges I've seen are not as thick on the fat end, meaning you don't get as much lift out of them when driven fully in. I recently saw some 8" and 10" wedges that were as thick as my 12"... I'll probably switch one or both of the two wedges I carry to that size in the future. The easier driving I mentioned above is not that big a deal, since I seldom run into really large trees in my area.
Quote from: UN Hooker on August 31, 2012, 11:13:30 PM
My "wedge" is right on top of the arch!! UN
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/24436/3470/DSCF0264_JPGUN.jpg)
A tinkerer is always thinking. You think a lot like Dad!!!!!
Quote from: James Arsenault on August 31, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
When I lay out a cut, I plan the cut according to the general lean of the trees in a section. Simply put, most areas, there will be a general lean to the majority of the trees. Not all, of course, but setting up the cut to take advantage means fewer trees to fight with. If my yard is to the north but a section tends to lean south, I make a swing road to turn the wood, rather than fight every tree over. I don't have time to use wedges on every tree. Remember, I'm talking logging, not tree removal, where the game changes.
Most contrary trees I take over with the skidder, or play dominoes.Occasionally a push pole. Saftey gurus might puke, and it's definitely not a game for beginners.
I think a wedge is a good tool to know how and when to use, but I would find it's use on every tree far to time consuming, and, for me, unneccesary.
Thank you James you saved me some typing.
When i got on a new sale the first think i would do is walk though it to check out the lean of the timber, its just like parting your hair. You want to make sure your working the patch of timber the right way. If your not working with the lean of the trees your not logging, you can't fight with trees an make money. In a good stand of Aspen i could lay down 60 to a 100 trees an hour, it was more fun then going to the fair.
When i pulled on the job and there was a pretty good wind, this changes everything again. The skidder operators and me would plan a new battle strategy for the day, you have to fall with the wind.
UN Hooker i had a wedge justed about like yours on my S8 on till the wife broke it off, i never got it welded back on. That was on my list, to-do-job i never got it done.
Back in 68 when i bought my new TF, i hired a older friend of mine to fall, he was about 50, i was 20. He had did a lot of falling for pole skidders up at International Falls. The first day on the job, i could here him sawing, i headed out with the skidder. When i got there were only about 10 trees on the ground. He had said that he'd be way ahead of me, i asked him where are all the trees, he pointed at a tree that had a saw blaze on it, push that one. I gave it a push an it seemed like trees were never going to stop falling, it was the best dominoes set up i've ever seen.
In the 60's strip cutting, i always cut a long pole for a push pole just in case i had a tree set back on my saw. Again i always worked the strip with the wind and the lean of the trees.
If i did happen to stick my saw bad my dad showed me how to make and use a timber jack. It happed a couple times, i wasn't happy with myself, it was my fault, day dreaming.
If i did have a sky bound one i used to saw an push at the same time, this technique worked very good with smaller trees.
Nothing wrong with using wedges if an when you need to.
Thanks for the info guys.
Quote from: lumberjack48 on September 01, 2012, 12:43:54 PM
Quote from: James Arsenault on August 31, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
When I lay out a cut, I plan the cut according to the general lean of the trees in a section. Simply put, most areas, there will be a general lean to the majority of the trees. Not all, of course, but setting up the cut to take advantage means fewer trees to fight with. If my yard is to the north but a section tends to lean south, I make a swing road to turn the wood, rather than fight every tree over. I don't have time to use wedges on every tree. Remember, I'm talking logging, not tree removal, where the game changes.
Most contrary trees I take over with the skidder, or play dominoes.Occasionally a push pole. Saftey gurus might puke, and it's definitely not a game for beginners.
I think a wedge is a good tool to know how and when to use, but I would find it's use on every tree far to time consuming, and, for me, unneccesary.
Thank you James you saved me some typing.
When i got on a new sale the first think i would do is walk though it to check out the lean of the timber, its just like parting your hair. You want to make sure your working the patch of timber the right way. If your not working with the lean of the trees your not logging, you can't fight with trees an make money. In a good stand of Aspen i could lay down 60 to a 100 trees an hour, it was more fun then going to the fair.
When i pulled on the job and there was a pretty good wind, this changes everything again. The skidder operators and me would plan a new battle strategy for the day, you have to fall with the wind.
UN Hooker i had a wedge justed about like yours on my S8 on till the wife broke it off, i never got it welded back on. That was on my list, to-do-job i never got it done.
Back in 68 when i bought my new TF, i hired a older friend of mine to fall, he was about 50, i was 20. He had did a lot of falling for pole skidders up at International Falls. The first day on the job, i could here him sawing, i headed out with the skidder. When i got there were only about 10 trees on the ground. He had said that he'd be way ahead of me, i asked him where are all the trees, he pointed at a tree that had a saw blaze on it, push that one. I gave it a push an it seemed like trees were never going to stop falling, it was the best dominoes set up i've ever seen.
In the 60's strip cutting, i always cut a long pole for a push pole just in case i had a tree set back on my saw. Again i always worked the strip with the wind and the lean of the trees.
If i did happen to stick my saw bad my dad showed me how to make and use a timber jack. It happed a couple times, i wasn't happy with myself, it was my fault, day dreaming.
If i did have a sky bound one i used to saw an push at the same time, this technique worked very good with smaller trees.
Nothing wrong with using wedges if an when you need to.
Very true with the wind. If possible, I shift to a section of timber the general lean favors the wind when the wind is strong, especially gusty. A strong wind can take some trees over against the lean, but a gusty wind makes it wildly unpredictable. Though when you have one mill ticket for the last load of whatever on the lot and the the wind comes up unfavorable, it's adapt and overcome time. These lean times and mill tickets for only X and Y, but no Z 'til next week or next month, make cut planning a pain.
When I chopped for hire behind someone else's skidder, I would cut a push pole in the morning, and throw it out of the way so if I needed it during the day, I had it. Didn't drag it around, but did try to make sure I had one not too far away. A maple sapling, 15 to 20 feet long and 3-4 inches on the butt, was my favorite. Maple was strong enough to bend only a little and not break. Amazing how large a tree you could push over with that pole caught under a limb or knot double or more a man's height up the tree. Get the tree rocking and one, two, three over it goes.
i rarely use them but i use the timber savage brand. i use them so i can face all the butts to the skid road to make skidding easier.
Hey James,I see you have a birthday. Happy Birthday to you.
Quote from: thecfarm on September 01, 2012, 08:52:44 PM
Hey James,I see you have a birthday. Happy Birthday to you.
Thank you!
7 1/2 green flo from Bailey's.Today I cut a double hard maple 14"&16" first one w/o a wedge as it was leaning right (gota get it between the sap lines ;D )second I wedged,it was back leaning with rot on one side, landed right where the first did.If I didn't it was headed for 3 runs of sap line.Could have used the winch but wedge is faster.
I have 2 blue 12" from WJ Cox my insurance provider that I use on large pine,I don't like stacking,better to cut cookies don't hurt so much :o .
Ed working alone like you do, in a situation like that. i'd fall the leaner then precut the other one, hook chokes on both, get on the skidder an back in to it.
I worked alone a lot, if the wife wasn't working, i worked alone. I got less done having to watch out for somebody, making sure he went home to his family.