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Pressure Treating Pine

Started by TravisP, October 24, 2008, 07:57:17 PM

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TravisP

Looking to have some syp pressure treated. Wondering if I can air-dry to a certain moisture percentage or if I must pay to have it kiln-dried? Not sure what moisture content you must have to pressure treat. Located in Florida. Thanks for any info. :P
Learning to saw and loving it

pineywoods

Air dry is fine. Around here, most want under 20% moisture content. You talking lumber or timbers ?
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Tom

The drier, the better, Travis, but under 20% is OK.   From What I've heard, the best place to go is the PRIDE mill in Raiford.  The second best is Wood Treaters on Fairfax.

Where ever you go, make sure that the lumber has been cleaned of all sawdust.  It jams up their filters and they don't like that. 

Visit them ahead of time and make sure of the size of the stack that will make it easier for them to fill their tank.  Don't take it to them stickered.  Flat stack it.  they can get more wood inot a load and the pressure is enough that it will get all the way through the stack.

It will have to be banded.  They may want to do it themselves.

TravisP

Thank yall for the info most helpfull ;D
Learning to saw and loving it

CANT HOOK

WHAT ARE YOU PAYING NOW FOR PRESSURE TREATING PROCESS?

Tim L

I must confess I know nothing about PT or if anyone even does it in my area. How much does it cost ?
Do the best you can and don't look back

DanG

Last time I checked, it was 15ยข a board foot in Chipley, Fla.  They told me that 25% was fine, but obviously the drier the better.  Kiln drying is not needed though.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Tim L

can any species be pressure treated ?
Do the best you can and don't look back

ellmoe

   Some will take PT well others not. We found that sweet gum will take well, and I believe black gum did also. Oak will take, but they recommend cutting up the surface will shallow slices first.

Mark
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

Tom

We have some treaters that will only treat pine.  They say that they have to keep the chemicals stabilized and hardwoods have a different sugar and other chemical base.   They made the decision to just do pine.

They also get really perturbed if you leave sawdust on the boards.  It clogs their filters.

Tim L

Any one ever used motor oil new or used on post in the ground ?
Do the best you can and don't look back

stonebroke

DEC gets real disturbed over old motor oil in contact with the ground, big fines.

Stonebroke

Tim L

What the difference between oil and stain?
Do the best you can and don't look back

stonebroke


Tim L

So would new oil be acceptable and or effective?
Do the best you can and don't look back

stonebroke

I think that there are metals present even in new oil. That is what kills the bacteria.

Stonebroke

Tim/South

The place I have found to PT my lumber will only treat pine. They want the MC down to at least 20%.
The owner said he could treat under high pressure in and hour and fifteen minutes. He is an hour away so I will wait and bring it home the same day. I have to call ahead of time and schedule a time when they are not busy.

The owner quoted me $75.00 per thousand for the fence/decking chemical.


Tim L

Does any one know of a place in NH that does PT ?
Do the best you can and don't look back

customdave

Speaking of treating , has anyone done their own treating with Penta !I can get my hands on some but don't know formula to mix. Have treating tank , all componets, but just need mixing formula. Would appreciate info if someone knows.  Thanks customdave
Love the smell of sawdust

DanG

Tim L, I seriously doubt that the Gov't will get around to checking your fence posts right away, but there's another good reason to not treat them with oil.  That reason is, it doesn't work!  In an outdoor application such as a trailer deck, it will cause the wood to shed rainwater and preserve the life of it significantly, but in the ground it won't even slow it down a little bit.  If you can't get your wood to a p/t facility, you're better off to just buy pt wood, imho.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Tim L

Thanks Dang ,I'm not familiar with Penta . What is it ?
Do the best you can and don't look back

customdave

TimL, Penta is an old treating that you soak timbers &posts in , the longer you leave it the better. This product was outlawed years ago, envoirmentel issues I suppose its a darn good treating for pine, spruce, tamarack. I'm looking for recipe as I can obtain in crystal form.It has to be disolved in methonal first then added to desial fuel, just need to know these mixtures ?          customdave
Love the smell of sawdust

Theron211

Does anyone have any leads on a company that will Pressure Treat in the NY, CT, PA, NJ area?  Thanks in advance.

rastis

Check with Northeast Treaters in Belchertown, MA

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

There are different levels of treatment...more chemical is needed when the wood will be in contact with the ground than when above ground.  Incidentally, PT usually uses a vacuum first to pull out the air and then when the vacuum is released, the wood sucks in the preservative and the added pressure pushes in a little more.  Then, a slight vacuum at the end pulls out any loose preservative near the surface so the surface looks dry and has less  oozing out of preservative initially.  

The depth of treatment is also a factor...for large timbers, like a railroad tie, the chemical is measured in the outer 2" and not the core.

The reason for drying is twofold. First, when you dry, the wood may warp or crack or otherwise lose grade or quality.  So, after the first drying, the "defective" pieces are withdrawn and not treated as it would be a waste of money.  Second, to get the chemical into the wood, the water has to be removed so there is room for the chemical and the water or other liquid that carries the chemical into the wood.

Some people do pressure treat wetter wood.  They put as much chemical in as will go in...usually not much.  It is called "treating to refusal."  It looks good on the outside, but is of little value.  So, this is usually considered to be fraudulent and will not have a legitimate treating label or stamp.

If you dry wood to an average of 20% MC, the core may be still too wet for much chemical, but the outside will absorb a lot creating a barrier for entry of bugs or decay, until the wood cracks deeply, is drilled into, has a nail inserted, has an end cut, etc.  All of these expose untreated wood.  Sometimes drilled holes are swabbed with preservative before having a screw or bolt inserted.  Likewise, fresh cuts are treated with preservative before use.

If you dry under 20% MC, you will get more retention of chemical, all else being equal.  This is expensive, but for ground contact may be worth it.  At 25% MC retention can be less, but still ok for above ground.  The treater can also vary the retention amounts by the way the equipment is operated.  Even so, if the MC of incoming wood varies greatly, preservative amounts will vary.

The chemicals used for treating can vary...not all PT is the same.  Government control.

After treating, the wood must be "dripped dry" and the chemical that drips off is recaptured.  Sometimes, to get better retention and lock the chemical in the wood better, and get an drying defects to show up, the wood is also kiln dried after treatment (KDAT) at certain temperatures.  Costly but worth it for some uses.  Sometimes we are concerned about residual chemical deposited on the surface as it can rinse off in the first rain storm.

A key consideration when doing PT is the cost of failure of the treated wood.  That is, if the failure causes a deck to fall and injure people, or the fence post fails and expensive animals escape, or a tie fails and a train wrecks, it is worth the cost to have a well treated wood product.

Mention should be made that scrap and sawdust from treated wood should never be allowed to be on the ground or left on the building site, as the poison will be available for animals and people to come in contact with it and it can seep into ground water.  Therefore, capture treated wood debris and dispose of properly (municipal dump landfill sites are ok, at least last year).  In a playground that uses treated wood, it is especially critical to avoid sawdust and other debris etc.

Using oil is likely to increase flammability (issue with a grass fire), plus gravity and heat from the sun will pull the oil down the post and into the soil.  Not good.  Probably illegal due to the environmental damage.  Ever wonder why creosote treated poles have a dark ring in the soil around them and the upper sections appear to have little creosote?
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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