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adding an extension

Started by WoodyPhyseter, January 20, 2021, 11:41:37 AM

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WoodyPhyseter

Hey everybody,  first post but long time reader.  I've finally started sculpted some of the timbers for a 12x16 cabin based on Will Beemer's ''learn to timber frame'' book.  It's really a great book and makes timberframing simple and without mistakes, emphasizing a lot about 'reference facing' to measure the 'perfect timber within'.  Anyway...

So since this is my first smart timberframing project, I'm just planning on doing the 12x16' and covering it up.  But I'd like to eventually add an extension (roofed balcony) off  the side, adding to the 8' segment between the two 7x7'' posts and extend it 8' or 12'.  Unfortunately the book goes through this aspect really quickly and talks about using hardwood splines and whatnot.  but nothing about actually adding/connecting a new sill under the posts (corner and middle).

So since I still haven't sculpted the pieces implicated in this extension (mortise sill's outer corner and center sill parallel/aligned with tenoned joist, and the two posts above), my questions are:

''Do I sculpt the mortises for a future tie-beam now into the other side of the posts, and covering it up with the boards as normal to reveal at another time or do ppl actually sculpt onto a vertical post when they want to add and extension?'',

''Do I do the same with the sills and leave an opened mortise on the outer side of the sill? what would that joinery even look like if the Post is under the corner (not protruding the sill), reductions, housing and tenon... how would I pin it in with the post there...?

then last
''about spline joints, I get how they connect two tie-beam onto opposite sides of a post while avoiding interference between tenons,  but what if I wanted to add a tie-beam later on the opposite side of the post?  do ppl put a temporary 'half spline-joint',  only connecting the current tie-beam to the post and then switch it up for one that would accommodate both tie-beams?''

here are three sreenshots, 1 of the emplacement of the extension, 2 of the sill's and joist's joinery and three of where I'm thinking of putting an opened mortise for future use.




 

 

 

Sugar

I am in a similar situation with a Similar build.  I am adding an 8x8 on one of the 12' ends.  And a porch on the front.  For now only the 12x16 and 8x8 floor have been cut but not assembled.  On the 8x8 I just cut full length tenons on the 8'sills that join the 12'sill and used the joinery as prescribed on the main floor for the other end.  I am super glad to see this thread as I am about to start cutting the post and am still thinking on exactly what to do when I get to the addition part of them.  I am for now only cutting the mortises for the porch to come back afterwards and complete.
Hooked up and Hard down

Brad_bb

Where are you from?  You can put the state or country in your profile (whatever you prefer) and it will appear in each post, giving us an idea of the area or climate you're building in.

Also you use the word "sculpt".  That is something and artist does with clay.  I think you can use the word "cut" instead.

I'm wondering why you're looking at using a wood sill versus a concrete foundation, or slab?
Unless it's a cabin on piers, it might be easier adding on with a concrete foundation?

It's definitely easier to cut mortises in now for a future expansion.  You could even install a dutchman (wood filler block) to keep bugs etc out.  
Whether to cut mortises in a sill timber depends on how well it is protected.  Do you have termites there?  Are you doing something to protect your wood from them and from other bugs or larvae?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Sugar

Hooked up and Hard down

WoodyPhyseter

Quote from: Brad_bb on February 15, 2021, 09:26:36 PM
Where are you from?  You can put the state or country in your profile (whatever you prefer) and it will appear in each post, giving us an idea of the area or climate you're building in.

Also you use the word "sculpt".  That is something and artist does with clay.  I think you can use the word "cut" instead.

I'm wondering why you're looking at using a wood sill versus a concrete foundation, or slab?
Unless it's a cabin on piers, it might be easier adding on with a concrete foundation?

It's definitely easier to cut mortises in now for a future expansion.  You could even install a dutchman (wood filler block) to keep bugs etc out.  
Whether to cut mortises in a sill timber depends on how well it is protected.  Do you have termites there?  Are you doing something to protect your wood from them and from other bugs or larvae?
Hi Brad, thanks for answering.  I changed my profile information but in case you don't want to check I'm from cold snowy frenchCanada.  I'm on my 4th timberframing book and I should know better than to use the word ''sculpt'' but I mostly talk about the subject to francophones and we use the word ''tailler'' which roughly means ''to chip away''.  Anyway,  my bad,  sorry for the confusion.

To answer your questions,  yes it is a cabin out in the woods and it will be built on wooden stilts.  I intend on charring (burning), sanding and oiling the timbers to preserve them,  but I might just do the sills and boards if I get lazy,  hopefully not.

So if I understand correctly,  a Dutchman is a block of wood to fill an empty mortise?   Thanks for answering that question about if timberframers do cut extra mortises for future expansion at all, I'll do that. 
Though the real matter in which I need help is about what kind of joinery can fit in this particular space.
(refer to image 3)In this image you see that a future tie-beam would be joined into the middle and end posts,  thus the sill has to be in line with the post.
(refer to image 2)In this image you see how Jack A. Sobon designed the middle floor joist joinery, it has a 5'' tenon pegged from the top into an 8x8 sill.  The 6x6 post leaves 2'' for the peg.  
Now I keep thinking about it and I have not many ideas on how to make a joinery that works with and without that extra sill, party because I won't be able to peg under the post (there's also a stilt under the middle bent posts).

The obvious solution I had was to cut the mortises offset to the posts,  either have the extension's sills be ridiculously large 6x12 or more so to still have the (new) sill aligned with the post, or (another solution) no tie-beams and just a floor that hangs off the cabin sills and stilts at the other end to make a (an odd looking offset) balcony.

I ask this because this is my project cabin to understand the workings of timberframe cabins.  All of my books talk about how timberframed homes are great for future expansion and show pretty images and descriptions of expansions that have been made, but the interfering joinery in the sills (corners especially) puzzles me and unfortunately are not mentioned (or I havn't made the proper connections with joinery theory authors tried to explain).

do you have any insight on my bewilderment?

Thanks again.

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