The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Drying and Processing => Topic started by: ahlkey on December 20, 2009, 08:17:16 AM

Title: Nyle L200
Post by: ahlkey on December 20, 2009, 08:17:16 AM
I have just completed the Chamber for a used Nyle L200.  What is the best electric heater to use to preheat the chamber?  I do have access to gas but it seems electric would be better for my needs which then could be used for other heating needs at times. Anything special I should consider to preheat the chamber?
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: red oaks lumber on December 20, 2009, 10:33:45 AM
what do you mean by "pre heat the chamber". aren't you going to load the chamber with wood then turn your kiln unit on which already has a heater built in it.
 or are you asking about adding additional heat to it? if so use elec. heat, gas heat will starve out for lack of oxegen.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: Den Socling on December 20, 2009, 11:16:23 AM
red oaks,

I'm no expert with DH kilns but the ones I have seen need auxiliary heat to get the ball rolling. Then excess heat from the compressed side supplies the heat needed to evaporate water.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: red oaks lumber on December 20, 2009, 12:57:08 PM
den,
 i run dh kilns, i add extra heat by using hotwater blown thru heat exchangers. his wording of preheat the chamber sounds like when you preheat your oven then put in the food.
 when i ran  my L200's  1 had hotwater makeup heat, the 2nd i put a 6" dia. stove pipe thru the wall and ran a diesel salamander heater for extra startup heat
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: scsmith42 on December 20, 2009, 05:44:11 PM
Why wouldn't the 5KW heat strips inside the L200 take care of the heating needs?
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: red oaks lumber on December 20, 2009, 06:04:42 PM
it would but, in the winter with frozen wood it takes about 3 days to get up to 80 deg. to have the comp. start drying. for me pumping extra heat i'm up to temp. in 8 hours.(time is money)
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: scsmith42 on December 20, 2009, 08:43:58 PM
ok - that makes sense.

I added additional heat strips inside my L200, but that was primarily for getting the temp up to 160F for setting the pitch in pine (in the winter).  The additional strips are each on a separate contactor, so that I can select one (the original L200 one), an extra 5KW strip, or an extra 10KW strip.

The contactors are wired into the primary one inside the controller, so it is all automatic.  With all three operating it gets up to temperature within a few hours.

I added them for the pine, but tend to use at least the additional 5K strip most of the time.  Did not put two and two together about the faster ramp up time benefit in the winter...
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: Ironwood on December 20, 2009, 08:52:36 PM
I used base board heaters w/ the thermos taken out (this is outside in a self contained metal box, so fire is a non-worry) and hooked it to a remote thermosat on the outside of the unit. This gets my heat up quicker, I understand your need!

                Ironwood
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: ahlkey on December 20, 2009, 10:41:59 PM
 
From the manual it says the compressor will not turn on until the Kiln reaches 80 degrees. If the Kiln is below the display it will show <Preheat> until the temperature is reached.

From the Nyle website I was able to pull the following from the Q & A section: " What type of heating system should be used for initial warm-up?  It is only necessary to heat the kiln to about 85 degrees F (29 degrees C) to start the dehumidification process. Once started, the process feeds itself by recycling the heat recovered from the air. Initial warm-up can be done with nearly any type of heating system. Usually, small kilns or single kiln chambers use electric heat, while larger kilns may employ a gas, oil or wood boiler to provide heat."

Thanks for the feedback.  I will try to configure something more practical eventually but for now use a simple base board heater that I have and believe will deliver enough heat to do the initial warm-up heating. 



Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: Ironwood on December 20, 2009, 10:49:43 PM
Run the electrics 220v as they are much better and heat much faster.

 Ironwood
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: ahlkey on December 20, 2009, 11:07:27 PM
Thanks Ironwood that makes sense.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: ARKANSAWYER on December 21, 2009, 06:26:28 PM

  My chamber has vents at the top of the walls on oppisite sides to vent out excess moisture.  I do not see why you can not pipe your diesel salamander heater into there and let the other side vent out the excess moisture.  I would not put the unit inside and most likly would have about 6 ft of pipe before the heat enters the building.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: oakiemac on December 21, 2009, 10:51:01 PM
I just loaded my L-200 with about 2500bf of 4/4 lumber that had lots of snow and ice built up on the boards. We tried to scrap off the ice but this was too time consuming so we loaded with ice and all. It only took about 5 hours to go from 32 degrees in chamber with icy wood to 85 degrees using only the factory heater element. I have never had to run aux heat for my L-200.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: red oaks lumber on December 22, 2009, 12:59:35 PM
that wood had to been mostly air dried, any wood with much moisture still in would be frozen, with your fans running the chamber temp. won't climb that fast. not the L200
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: Den Socling on December 22, 2009, 04:45:57 PM
red oaks,

That sounds a little fast to me, also and I could sit here and do a bunch of calculations but let it suffice for me to say that people don't want the attitude that you sometimes show. Oakiemac isn't lying to us and I am sure that he wasn't mistaken. Please consider other people's feelings.

Den

PS Many operations consider green wood in DH kilns as uneconomical. It probably was air dried and he simply didn't mention it.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: red oaks lumber on December 22, 2009, 05:35:37 PM
den,
 that was written with no attitude, sorry to anyone that takes me as always having a chip on my shoulder. i'm probably the biggest smart a** on here. i think my problem is i can't spell very good or type so, what my mind is thinking dosen't get typed the same way, does that make any sense?
 again... sorry to anyone that feels i have attitude.
 thankyou steve
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: DR_Buck on December 22, 2009, 05:49:41 PM
Quote
I have never had to run aux heat for my L-200.


My DH4000 (same ad L200) has never need additional heat either.  My box holds about 1800-2000 bf.    My last load went in at ~30 and was up to 90 in just a few hours.   I can get it up to 160 anytime without an issue.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: LeeB on December 22, 2009, 06:23:45 PM
den,
 that was written with no attitude, sorry to anyone that takes me as always having a chip on my shoulder. i'm probably the biggest smart a** on here. i think my problem is i can't spell very good or type so, what my mind is thinking dosen't get typed the same way, does that make any sense?
 again... sorry to anyone that feels i have attitude.
 thankyou steve

A lot of us have the same problem and getting written word to "sound" like you want it to definatly is a skill. Sometimes it is helpful to read what you have written before you post.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: oakiemac on December 22, 2009, 08:48:07 PM
The wood was green walnut cut just a few days before. Lots of ice on the lumber. I have been trying to rack my (small) brain to remember exactly how long it took maybe it was longer then 5 hours but it was certainly less then a day. I think we put it in late afternoon and by morning the next day it was up to temperature. Sorry if I miss led anyone.
My chamber is insulated with 4" of blown in foam so it is very tight. I dont think drying green lumber is uneconomical-I charge more for drying green. With the wood this wet I take my time, I leave it at about 90 degrees for about 10 days then ramp up the temp slowly. I find that temperature has much more to do with drying then compressor run time.

BTW: Merry Christmas! 8)
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: Den Socling on December 23, 2009, 09:31:33 AM
red oaks,

I have the same problem in forums and with email. That's why I like these.  ;) In my opinion, they change the mind of a reader who might start thinking that the writer has an attitude.

Happy Holidays to you and everybody here.  8)

Den
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: OneWithWood on December 23, 2009, 09:53:07 AM
Much like Oakiemac and DR I prefer to go from the mill directly to the kiln.  It really cuts down on degrade.  Less degrade = mo money so I am comfortable with the economics of it all.  My kiln
(DH4000) comes up to temp without any external heat and I can hit 160F without a problem.  A good tight chamber helps a lot. 
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: Den Socling on December 23, 2009, 10:55:07 AM
I agree 100% that it is better to go from the saw directly into the kiln. Air drying leaves too much out of control. But some guys with drying sheds and shade cloth can minimize degrade and save money on their electric bill. In another situation, something like 8/4 red oak might require air drying to minimize degrade in the kiln. Sirianni Hardwoods, in New York, air drys huge amounts of heavy red and white oak before it is loaded into conventional kilns but the air drying can take a year. That's a long time to tie up money in inventory but they are good at air drying. They are located in a valley with a steady breeze and they have sheds pointed perpendicular to the breeze and with shade cloth. BTW I never air dry before loading my vacuum kilns.

ahhh if only we all had predryers. Right now, for example, I have multiple monster ice cubes sitting outside.  :(
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: ahlkey on December 24, 2009, 01:54:13 AM
It is nice to hear that some of you have not seen it necessary to pre-warm the chamber with a diiferent heating source than what comes with the Nyle L200. The chamber that I put together was made with 2 X 6 's for the walls, floor, and ceiling. It used pink stryrofoam between the studs and then 1 inch of Celotex Thermax for the interior face covered with two layers of 6 mil polyethylene. I also sprayed high temperature foam wherever I found any gaps.  The flooring is 3/4 plywood with everything else 1/2 inch. It sits on a concrete slab that I put in and overall I believe the chamber is very tight but I have yet to start it up.  The dimensions is 18 X 12 X 8 which I believe should hold close to 4,000 board feet. I was just following the directions from Nyle about pre-heating but if it not necessary in many cases that is great.   Thanks for all your advise as it is as always really appreciated.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: ARKANSAWYER on December 24, 2009, 03:15:40 PM
Ahlkey  You will only get about 2,500 bdft in a box that size.  Also I would not put more then 1800 bdft of green wood in at one time and try to keep your stacks to 4 ft wide.  The kiln will dry small loads to fast some times and large loads not fast enough.   Green wood will make it a steam sona and you will get sticker stain.  Most of my loads are around 1600 to 2000 bdft and my  chamber is a bit larger then yours.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: ahlkey on December 24, 2009, 05:45:18 PM
I thought if I loaded two 8 ft stacks lengthwise (16 ft) I would be ok in the 18 ft length chamber.  Then use 8 ft of the chambers width leaving 4 ft to spare on the sides.  I would stack at 6 feet high as I need to leave room for the fans.  In this example if I calculated the thickness (inches) X  width (inches) X length (ft) divided by 12 I get 9,216 bd feet if it was solid wood.  Then I thought if I cut everything down by almost 60% assuming the size of the stickers, etc.. I thought I could get 4,000 board feet for the chamber?  I agree I will likely not load it like this often but thought since the L-200 is listed as capable of 4,000 board ft I would set it up that way just in case.   I agree with green lumber it is best to load it light but I do plan to do some seasonal air drying first in most cases to reduce the drying times.  Appreciate all feedback as I am new at this and learning daily.
Title: Re: Nyle L200
Post by: DR_Buck on December 24, 2009, 06:39:50 PM
8' stack width is to wide.   You'll have trouble getting enough air pushed across that much surface area.  Especially if you're only using the two Nyle fans.   Even with added fans you might have trouble.   I stack 4' wide and can go up to about 5' in height.   

My biggest problem in loading the kiln is random or mixed lengths.  When you have different lengths of lumber you loose a lot of kiln space.   My kiln chamber is 19'x8'x7.5' and I'm lucky to get 1800 bf in at a time.   The only way I can get close to the 2200 bf it should hold is if I have all 9' long lumber.