Concern regarding reforestation program

[mike_belben]

@charles mann  
@RPF2509   
@Skeans1  
@DMcCoy 

[Jeff]

The guy is an (fill in the blank) he just ordered the admins to remove a post that offended him. Yea, Ill get right on that. He aint banned yet, but his attitude and  the unknown agenda he is carrying is about to get him beotch slapped. I got no time for (fill in the blank)

As for monarchs, I took this picture and some video this last week. Seems my parts of Michigan is doing okay.



 

[Jeff]

I could have sworn there was another reply here I read early this morning or last night and came back to read again and reply. Now it appears to be gone. Am I imagining things? Maybe I should check my meds, oh wait, I don't take any meds. ;D

It was removed because of all the political content. Ill not waste my time with (fill in the blank)s

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah, I pretty much figured that, but expected to see the removal noted as it is with moved threads. He was pretty good at making claims of intense work on international levels that came at extreme personal sacrifice of unknown forms. Lots of mystery with that fella that left his comments with a very dubious taste in my brain. 
 OH golly I would love to know who wrote the post that offended him! :D ;D We should give that person a prize. My money is on Mike, simply because of his eloquent verbosity.
 OK, lets move on, shall we? ;D

[HemlockKing]

The guy is an (fill in the blank) he just ordered the admins to remove a post that offended him. Yea, Ill get right on that. He aint banned yet, but his attitude and  the unknown agenda he is carrying is about to get him beotch slapped. I got no time for (fill in the blank)

As for monarchs, I took this picture and some video this last week. Seems my parts of Michigan is doing okay.



 

Sort of related I find it funny how you have these eco nuts that come on the radio going on about letting your lawn grow to weeds and wild flower or the bees will die??? Okay lol . Do they not know Nova Scotia is mostly uninhabited woods? The bees are fine.  They have plenty of habitat. And I like bees too but I just don't buy it or understand their reasoning. 

[Old Greenhorn]

That reasoning is designed to be effective on the uneducated or the overeducated with no actual knowledge. Unfortunately, too often it works really well. I have a logger/arborist buddy who just LOVES when he is on a job and a nosey neighbor comes over to try and 'educate him' or just complain. He uses basic facts and knowledge to overwhelm them without mercy and asks them a lot of questions about how much of their 'arguments' they had actually thought through. Either they walk away with new knowledge, or they walk away in disgust. Either way, they walk away. ;D

[mike_belben]

Ecowarriors are humans too.   Id rather convert them to timber fellers than offend them. 

[Big_eddy]

Back on topic.
A 1.7 acre reforestation with 1400 trees and a mix of 6-8 species seems very appropriate to me. I expect the conservation authority has done their homework and evaluated the site to ensure they are not planting on sanddunes or the shield. The species seem appropriate to me. (I note there are no ash on the list :)

The landowner needs to recognize that the planting is only the first step in the process. The first 5 years are critical. Grass and weed control. Remove self seeded invasives and other pests (prickly ash, grape vine, dog strangling vine). Deer or rodent protection if needed. 

For the next 5-10 years at least, there will need to be active weed control for the seedlings (mulch or mechanical preferred over chemical ) annually, and there will be some loss. It is going to look very "sparse" at 4-6 feet between plants. But once the saplings are established, there is going to be competition between the survivors, which will drive them all to reach upwards. At 15-20 years, you should start to see canopy closure with trees in the 20-30' range. Depending on the objectives of the owner, thinning may be advised. 

At 20-25 years, the original trees should start to self seed into openings and surrounding land. Come back then and we can help you with ways to help them along.  At that time, you might even consider planting shade tolerant trees (sugar maple, hemlock) under the canopy.

[Jeff]

OH golly I would love to know who wrote the post that offended him! :D ;D We should give that person a prize.

Take a bow, it was your's he reported with a demand to remove. :D

[Old Greenhorn]

 :D 8) That's really rich. So he was offended by my attempt to engage him in meaningful discussion? oh well, not my problem, is it? ;D
I am more interested to read about these 1400 trees going in the ground and how it turns out. That is something worth talking about.

[edit to add:] Sorry Jeff I didn't mean to cause you any grief. I re-read my post and don't really see anything offensive in there. I thought I asked him fair questions. Guess he felt pushed too far.

[Nebraska]

Tom some people  can't take being engaged critically.  Funny thing I have "Monarch" safe areas in my tree fields where I leave Milkweed plants just in case  a caterpillar needs a snack..   The Milkweed  that grows in my hay patches,  well  it doesn't get to finish.... I wonder sometimes  as others have mentioned...  just how many of those folks use toilet paper..  

[Southside]

Same here, even though they can infest my pastures I leave milk weed around the edges or spots I can't mechanically control, ya know since we use zero chemicals at all on the farm side of our environmental destruction business. 

[John Mc]

Sort of related I find it funny how you have these eco nuts that come on the radio going on about letting your lawn grow to weeds and wild flower or the bees will die??? Okay lol . Do they not know Nova Scotia is mostly uninhabited woods? The bees are fine.  They have plenty of habitat. And I like bees too but I just don't buy it or understand their reasoning.

Actually, it's a problem here in VT and other places. There has been a significant die off bees. It's referred to as "Colony Collapse Disorder". Some of the bee keepers in our area have noticed the problem. It's not necessarily habitat loss that causes it, but improving pollinator habitat is one way of supporting bees so that surviving colonies are healthier and can help make up for the losses.

[Southside]

There is a whole lot more to colony collapse than the media has reported on. A lot has to do with the USDA insurance payment and the commodity use of bees in Almond plantations and such.  Basically it pays more to abuse your hive and let it die than to actually take care of it for the big guys. 

We have a small quantity of hives and it doesn't scare me at all. 

[HemlockKing]

Sort of related I find it funny how you have these eco nuts that come on the radio going on about letting your lawn grow to weeds and wild flower or the bees will die??? Okay lol . Do they not know Nova Scotia is mostly uninhabited woods? The bees are fine.  They have plenty of habitat. And I like bees too but I just don't buy it or understand their reasoning.

Actually, it's a problem here in VT and other places. There has been a significant die off bees. It's referred to as "Colony Collapse Disorder". Some of the bee keepers in our area have noticed the problem. It's not necessarily habitat loss that causes it, but improving pollinator habitat is one way of supporting bees so that surviving colonies are healthier and can help make up for the losses.

What difference will it make if my small patch of lawn had a few wild flowers on it though? I think something like 94% of NS is unoccupied woodland? If they can't fare well there then how will a few people inside a town or city not mowing their lawn really help? To be honest though, I see a lot of bees around my area. 

[HemlockKing]

There is a whole lot more to colony collapse than the media has reported on. A lot has to do with the USDA insurance payment and the commodity use of bees in Almond plantations and such.  Basically it pays more to abuse your hive and let it die than to actually take care of it for the big guys.

We have a small quantity of hives and it doesn't scare me at all.

Yup thats how it goes with the news part truth or out of context, baitclicking, trendy sounding headlines etc. They'll try to tell you what to think or feel but won't just go "here's the facts, here's what's happening, do what you will with this information"

[EWilson99]

Interesting that my initial post on a small reforestation project, has led to such fascinating discussion ;D!

An update on the reforestation project: not going as well as planned, but it's been improving since the month of May. There wasn't any rainfall at all in May, so that meant that a lot of the newly planted seedlings died. I would say that out of the 800 white pines, more than 60% have died, only 3-4 of the white cedars have survived, 4-5 bitternut hickories are shooting out leaves, and there's only about 5 bur oak seedlings with leaves. None of the black cherry seedlings grew any leaves. The good news, however, is that the red maples have been doing extremely well, and other than deers eating some of the leaves, 95 of the 100 red maple seedlings are healthy and doing well. The American Elms, located at the boundary of the old hayfield and which were planted around 20 years ago, seem to be shooting up some new seedlings as well!

Thankfully, due to the rain in June and July, the rest of the seedlings are doing quite well. I'm excited to see how the rest of the trees will grow in 4-5 years time, and we'll consider planting more drought resistant trees such as red pines and red cedars within the next year or two.

[mike_belben]

Consider setting up water collection nearby.  Rope a tarp at the corners into nearby trees loosely, with a rock in the center and a pinhole to make a funnel.  Walmart kiddie pool under it.  Old pot and a bucket makes it a piece of cake.


Thick Strawbail mulch around seedlings will dramatically help them retain soil moisture in the beating sun.  

[EWilson99]

Consider setting up water collection nearby.  Rope a tarp at the corners into nearby trees loosely, with a rock in the center and a pinhole to make a funnel.  Walmart kiddie pool under it.  Old pot and a bucket makes it a piece of cake.


Thick Strawbail mulch around seedlings will dramatically help them retain soil moisture in the beating sun.  

Since June we've had very good rainfall, so I'm not sure that would be necessary this year- we might take it into account for next year, if spring ends up being the same hot dry season as it was this year.

Can strawbail be bought in bulk for a cheap price?

[mike_belben]

If you find a winter wheat patch stop and ask. I buy 2 square bales to dial in the bow in fall then the next spring mulch the garden with it.  Think 4 bucks a bale at the co-op who obviously has to mark up.  

You could just as easily use leaves or pine needles.. Any organic degradeable fluff to act as a sunscreen will slow evaporation and retain moisture. Thats why the earthworms are always under a leaf pile.  Even sawdust if you have to.  Coarse chips or planer noodles would be better than fine dust imo.

[Southside]

Cardboard works great too, holds moisture, the earthworms will be under it, and it does break down.  

[mike_belben]

Completely true.  But then im cursing amazon tape the next season hoe-ing it all up.  :D

[Ianab]

Old wool carpet is also used as a "mulch / weed mat" locally. Keeps the water in and the weeds out, and still breaks down after a year or 3. Seedling is big enough to look after itself by then. 

Don't use synthetic of course. 

[ppine]

I have never worked in Ontario, just paddled the southern part of it. 
But I have planted plenty of trees in the West.  One of  the advantages of planting instead of natural regen is we can control the spacing and species composition.

Your plan has plenty of diversity.   In a climate like Ontario you are likely to have minimal mortality.  Your planned density seems high by modern standards.  700-800 seedlings per acre.  It would be more typical now around 600 or less.  Less work and less thinning, less competition.

[EWilson99]

I have never worked in Ontario, just paddled the southern part of it.
But I have planted plenty of trees in the West.  One of  the advantages of planting instead of natural regen is we can control the spacing and species composition.

Your plan has plenty of diversity.   In a climate like Ontario you are likely to have minimal mortality.  Your planned density seems high by modern standards.  700-800 seedlings per acre.  It would be more typical now around 600 or less.  Less work and less thinning, less competition.

I think though that drought is the bigger problem here: in previous years I didn't care, but now that we're trying to grow some seedlings then it means that many of these are dying or have already died. It wasn't a problem in previous years, because older trees located at the perimeter, such as Bur Oak and American Elm, are quite drought tolerant.
Considering how many seedlings have already died, I don't think that thinning will be a necessity on some parts of the field. Nevertheless, considering that the land around us have been clearcut for agricultural purposes, I think that you're right in saying that the trees won't be susceptible to disease; hopefully in 20-30, once the trees make a dense canopy, we can start noticing the benefits.