The value of a tree and how do you pay yourself?

[fluidpowerpro]

My thoughts were strictly from an accounting / tax standpoint.
If you manufacture a product and your cost of raw materials is 0, then your profit is higher than if you had to pay for the material. Also your taxes will be higher. 
In a small operation, not a big deal. In a large operation, very big deal.

[Walnut Beast]

Have you tried to sell a single tree on your place? See how that works out.  
 
Many variables there. Depends on what it is and how big. If you cut it down or have somebody come get it.  You could have one veneer tree that could be thousands and it could work out really well!!. The value of a tree is not set in stone. There is a going price, what it’s worth to you, what you could sell it for. Or one dead junk tree to one person would be firewood but another person  turning it into epoxy tables and making several thousand. From a value to land standpoint same thing. That’s why Real estate agents of farms are marketing as hunting retreats because the trend of big value of wooded areas on farms are adding big time to the value of the land. To some people not all ! 

[WV Sawmiller]

WB,

  Remember I said sell a single tree. If I cut it down then I'm selling logs not a tree. I know a few people will buy high value logs like Walnut and such sometimes but the typical logger is not going to bring his equipment in and cut and move one tree especially if he has to build roads or clear access or such.

  I love your comment about marketing and we sometimes do it too. Birdseye maple, spalted maple, pithy cypress, wormy chestnut, denium pine, etc all used to be defects that either would not sell or sold for reduced prices because of the "defects." Heck, look at fashion trends. Ragged jeans and "pre-stressed" boots your mom would not dare let you wear in public are not all the rage.

Fluid,

  There are big operations that get free or cheap raw materials. I worked a project with Waste Management as our client where in several cities they were collecting a tipping fee for municipal garbage, incinerating it and generating electricity and selling the electricity and even made some profit off the recycle materials they could reuse/sell.

  The old adage "One man's trash is another man's treasure" is very true.

   They were taking waste products people were willing to pay to dispose of and creating a product people were willing to buy.

  What I was just pointing out is that many of us here on the forum use our own trees and our sweat equity and other farm or household equipment to harvest/salvage them (hopefully) for a profit and looking at how people reimburse themselves for the asset and the labor to convert it to a useable product they can sell.

  So far I have seen several options reported but most required an economy of scale far beyond what is economically feasible for me and many other readers here but it is interesting to read and something to keep in mind if the situation and conditions ever change to warrant it.

[fluidpowerpro]

Its a great topic and yes, an interesting read. It made me think about it from another angle.

[Oddman]

WV

I see your point considering a small woodlot. We have a pretty large piece here, the way I described is how I deal with the question but my situation warrants that. We have had pieces logged in the past, even very small pieces, but it helps having several small logging businesses in our extended family. 

And interestingly enough, we have sold a single tree before - my grandpa gave me the history on it, a guy came and bought a single black walnut, standing. He spend most of, if not a full day digging down around the stump before felling it in order to cut it very low. I asked grandpa how much they were paid for it, he didnt remember the amount but it was enough to pay the property taxes that year. 

And I have heard of black walnuts being sold individually, even right out of folks yards right in town. 

This entire subject has been on my mind very much lately. For background I'm in my 30's, large piece of "family land" you might say with the timber under my "say-so".  4x4 Tractors, smallish dozer, gooseneck dump trailer, decent sized manual mill. Land spread out over all kinds of terrain and multi-mile skids are possible to get to the mill. Lots and lots of on-farm projects for the lumber. Some outside sales but not chasing that. Timber is of varying ages/quality. My hope/plan is to acquire a small skidder and a hydraulic mill. If I stay with the manual mill I will not be able to scale the business to outside sales and still keep up with on-farm needs. Also the timber will outgrow me and I'll have to sell commercially. If I don't get a skidder i wont be able to harvest with enough efficiency due to distance and terrain and time required to skid with tractor/dozer combo. Also some timber has already outgrown my current skidding capacity.
I hope to stay with the timber crop in order to avoid commercial log sales as much as possible but also not expand too far to where I run out of timber. 

Anyways, that's my situation, maybe someone will find interest in that.

[Oddman]

Without more efficient skidding i find myself tempted and sometimes for time-sake its necessary, that I harvest a tree closer to the mill sight that is not at its peak when i know of other timber in hard to access areas that is at or near its peak. Also many old junk trees that are great for firewood that have been passed up in years past need pulled out and processed but some are really big or in bad spots. So a skidder would solve most of this by increasing efficiency therefore allowing better management of the timber stands.

Also I am constantly cruising timber. Can't even take the family out to the woods for a camp/cookout without taking time to cruise a tract...I told my wife i could cruise timber all day, it just doesnt get old.

[WV Sawmiller]

Oddman,

  Are you sawing your trees into lumber or selling the logs? You sound like you're growing a lot more timber than I am.

  I got all of the tree in the original post except the 21' butt log down to the mill. I finally cut it into a 6'  and a 14' butt log today. I got the 6' log out of the woods with my ATV and am comfortable I can snake it out with my little JD tractor if it does not rain too much tomorrow. I got the 14' true butt log close enough to the gate I have a cable on it and through a snatch block. Now I need one more cable to hook to it and the tractor and I think it will pull out.

  The 14' butt log will fill a customer order for 14' 2X8 and 2X4s and the 6' will be stock 2x4 for composting toilets and 1X12's for birdhouse tops.

  I will think long and hard before I cut another one that big unless its a straight shot to the mill.

[Oddman]

I am sawing into lumber. Also we produce 50ish cord of firewood per year for our own use. Approximately 600 acres of timber, basically all hardwood. I hear you on the large trees being about too much to handle...I generally look for something around 16" dbh that needs to be culled, skidding the big ones turns into a project all their own. 

Im the fourth generation of us thats taking timber off our place. We had an old circle mill in operation till about the time i was born, then i got our current mill about 4 years ago. My grandpa and great grandpa started harvesting here with crosscuts, axes, horses, and a buzz saw rig in the fiftys. Cut firewood for $3 a rick, that was main income for years. Grandpa said they finally raised it to $4...oh, and that was Delivered

[Oddman]

I would love to have some poplar like that. My younger brother moved out to east TN and we get out to visit him bout every year. Seeing all the timber in the smoky mnt national park makes my mouth water. Could probably build a house with one of those giant poplar trees.