long term storage of dry goods.

[doc henderson]

OK so I am getting the idea that the supply chain is not getting fixed just because covid is no longer a global pandemic, but an ongoing new normal.  I am hearing from my assistant scout master who is a foreman at a Kroger warehouse, that most trucks are coming in half full.  or not at all and occ. a full truck that is four shipments combined.  Before the family reunion we found the little miller in much of the dry goods in the pantry.  most were in the original packages, and some unopened and still had the critters in them.  we have a vacuum bagging system but to bag up 25 pounds of rice or beans would add quite a bit of cost.  we are not preppers, but do not like to wait till it hits before we get prepared.  remember the toilet paper aisle a few years back.  what is the best cheapest long term storage for dry goods, to keep for a rainy day.  Do some things need to be further dehydrated?  We cannot freeze large quantities and this would add to the cost.  we also want it to be safe from power outages ect.  you get the idea.  so the kits that can feed you family with dehydrated food, but not in a bucket and costing four time the actual cost of the food.  I like the idea of canning, but takes lots of glassware.  so cheap safe long-term prepper type storage of food that can feed a family.

[doc henderson]

I did buy bags of rice and beans.  buying in bulk usually adds to out waste, like the #10  can of pork and beans we did not open for the family reunion.  is modern canning good enough to keep for years?  I assume it is.  could buy and store cases of soup and vegetables.  has to not freeze.  mom used to buy "Tupperware" and keep her four in there.  she still got the miller occasionally.  we through it all out, but I guess it would not kill you to eat them.  root crops can be dry and stored cool.  just throwing out ideas.  maybe a book is in the works, "the Forestry Forum preppers guide". :P

[Ricker]

I hate those millers. Bad start to the day when you add milk to your bowl of fruit loops and those little critters swim to the surface. Anyhow, we use food grade 5 gallon pails, with the screw on tops, to store some stuff like flour, rice, oatmeal etc. when we stock up during a good sale. Never had anything bother stuff in those.

[Ianab]

is modern canning good enough to keep for years?

Most cans don't have a "Use by" date on them any more, and should be safe to eat as long as the can hasn't rusted. Some have a "best before" of several years, but like the dates in Apu's store, they are a guideline only Mr Simpson. :D


The weevils you mention are nasty as they will chew through plastic bags to get to dried pasta / beans etc. Haven't been bothered by them in this house, but I've had them invade the cupboards at previous places. :-[ A solution might be store goods like that in larger plastic bins with sealing lids? Once a packet is open I move the stuff to a glass or plastic container that go on the shelf for regular use as a poorly sealed 1/2 pack is probably what attracts the bugs in the first place?


We aren't "preppers" as such, but even before the current supply issues we always kept a decent stock of non-perishable food (cans / rice / pasta). But always stuff that we would use over time, then just replace and rotate the stock. Never hurts to have 10 cans of beans in the cupboard even if you only use 1 a week. This is basically just standard Civil Defence preparedness. In a disaster (earthquake / floods etc) you may be on your own for 3 days, so be prepared for that.  If we have to evacuate then it's 5 mins to fill a couple of bins with a weeks food to take with us. We have seen this over recent years with a couple of large earthquakes in other parts of the country, where areas are effectively cut off without power / water / supplies for several days. People generally make do and look after themselves and their neighbours until help arrives and services are restored. 


The only actual cost is buying the extra supplies at first, after that you aren't wasting any of it, and because you have good stocks on hand, you can just restock when that item is on special. We don't buy bulk size products, just regular cans / packets when they are on special, so none gets wasted. 

[21incher]

We do a lot of canning and if stored in a cool dark location it will last for years. Back a while Ball changed to BPA free lid seals and the first generation would only hold a seal for about a year. Now they seem to have straightened that out and you can see up to 5 years on a canned item. We survived the pandemic living off items in our root cellar so it was the same as every other year when it came to food. 
 If you want to spend a lot of money on a freeze dryer that will provide the longest shelf life in Mylar bags.
 For dehydrated foods, rice and dry goods we use mason jars and vacuum seal them with our Foodsaver. Here is an old video showing how the adapters work.
Review Of A FoodSaver Wide Mouth Jar Sealer - YouTube
It also keeps things like cookies and crackers fresh as you can take a couple out and reseal. We have about 1000 Ball jars up to 1/2 gallon size that we accumulated over the years so lids are the only expense. Things like pasta and flour we just seal in in a vacuum bag over the original bag that extends the life and kills anything it may have in it from the store. I buy premade bags from Avid Armor several thousand at a time because they are good for keeping moisture from everything after vacuum sealing.
  Our root cellar is stocked year round and we live from it so everything is constantly rotated. Here is a past video
Quick Look In The Root Cellar 11/2019 - YouTube
It becomes a way of life after a while and we can always go a couple months without a store trip if needed.  
We also have 2 freezers stuffed full this time of year and my beer fridge full of homebrew along with 25 gallons of hard cider for entertaining. I guess Boy Scouts taught me to always be prepared and it was an important lesson after experiencing a true pandemic.

[tule peak timber]

Holy cow, really impressive!    I grow a big garden every year but 95 % goes to waste and varmints. You are very well organized, eat healthy, and I hope you pass on your skills ........ 8) 8) 8) 

[21incher]

Holy cow, really impressive!    I grow a big garden every year but 95 % goes to waste and varmints. You are very well organized, eat healthy, and I hope you pass on your skills ........ 8) 8) 8)

What got us started  was growing  100 year old heirlooms that Baker Creek is bringing  back. Once you get used to the flavors you can't eat commercial varieties  anymore.  Preserving is the only way to enjoy those flavors  year round. Next month  I fire up a grow tent to have fresh greens all winter.  What really  helps us is we have freezing temps all winter  that allows  me to keep the root cellar in the 40s so perishable  goods last till spring without the cost of refrigeration. I have hundreds  of videos  on YouTube  about  growing and preserving that have convinced many to get started. 

[tule peak timber]

Well.... Your videos here are very inspiring. We do not can, but blanch and freeze the organically grown vegetables as much as I am able to. Bought a corn sheller this week to capture the 99% of corn that goes to waste (rats) to feed to some turkeys in the aviary. I wasted out so many Hungarian Ox heart, San Marzanos, and Brandywines, after our freezers are packed really sort of sad. We give away food to any of our customers who come here and the guys that work here eat well. 
I tried canning some salmon a couple of months ago in Alaska, but brought back most of it vacuumed bagged and frozen. This too we pass around to family, friends and clients. I am kind of curious about buying a metal canning set up for use in Alaska because shipping UPS or regular freight is going to be a better option than some of the iffy frozen shipping we've recently used. Still getting that figured out. 
Anyway, we are big on eating healthy home grown food and your videos are quite the inspiration.
To your health.

[21incher]

Canning is fairly easy as you know but in your case I wonder if freight companies will expose the jars to freezing conditions that will most likely blow the jars up due to the water content. A little salt can be added to drop the freezing point but I would worry about UPS keeping them above freezing. Carrying jars will also add a lot of weight to your rig but most pressure canners are made from aluminum and lightweight. Can't wait to see pics of your first trip in the new rig.

[kantuckid]

As a serious gardener I'm impressed! But, how do you eat that much squash? Yes, we love Butternut squash but lacking a family of 8-10 kids we'd never come close to using whats stored in the pics. We eat and grow lots of stuff but honestly I cannot live on kraut or squash. :D 
 It's really common here in my area(and there are few Germans here culturally speaking here and probably zero Jewish people) for gardeners to can many qts of kraut- we might buy it in store 2-3 times a year but we buy fresh cabbage very often for slaw or cooking. i get it that it stores well but not a diet staple for us at all. Diets do vary, I guess.  ;D It' gets buggy when I grow it like said, so we buy it cheap at Walmart. 

When I worked in groceries for 5 years or so, it was common for a sealed grain product to be returned buggy. Other than freezing, matters not if the food is well sealed or not. The eggs must be in there. Mostly seen with whole grain products, I don't recall bean returns? 
 We like cracked wheat as a winter hot cereal and given the gluten stupidity many stores no longer stock it, excepting Whole Foods and Food Co-ops which we dont have locally, so we buy a 6pack of 1lb bags on Amazon and freeze it.
I was on a garden website a few years back which had what I'll call "Bean Freaks" who collect and grown beans. Some had over 400 varieties in their collection! They freeze the seeds as does the government in its seed banks. 

[21incher]

As a serious gardener I'm impressed! But, how do you eat that much squash? Yes, we love Butternut squash but lacking a family of 8-10 kids we'd never come close to using whats stored in the pics. We eat and grow lots of stuff but honestly I cannot live on kraut or squash. :D
It's really common here in my area(and there are few Germans here culturally speaking here and probably zero Jewish people) for gardeners to can many qts of kraut- we might buy it in store 2-3 times a year but we buy fresh cabbage very often for slaw or cooking. i get it that it stores well but not a diet staple for us at all. Diets do vary, I guess.  ;D It' gets buggy when I grow it like said, so we buy it cheap at Walmart.

When I worked in groceries for 5 years or so, it was common for a sealed grain product to be returned buggy. Other than freezing, matters not if the food is well sealed or not. The eggs must be in there. Mostly seen with whole grain products, I don't recall bean returns?
We like cracked wheat as a winter hot cereal and given the gluten stupidity many stores no longer stock it, excepting Whole Foods and Food Co-ops which we dont have locally, so we buy a 6pack of 1lb bags on Amazon and freeze it.
I was on a garden website a few years back which had what I'll call "Bean Freaks" who collect and grown beans. Some had over 400 varieties in their collection! They freeze the seeds as does the government in its seed banks.

Butternut squash is one of the most versatile longest storing squash that everyone should grow we usually eat 3 a week, give some away, and loose 10% to storage around the followingEaster. My wife roasts them, makes pies with them instead of pumpkin because of the better flavor. She also makes an awesome butternut soup, butternut pancakes, butternut maple bundt  cake and waffles. She also roasts some for freezing for use between May and September when fresh isn't  available. You really need more butternut in your diet.
When it comes to vacuum  bags I have not encountered a creature that can survive in a almost 25 inch vacuum. Try putting  some of your problem bugs in a jar and pulling  a 25 inch vacuum to see how long they survive. In my testing they don't  last long.
We use a lot of kraut with pork in the winter.  Put a 2 pound pork sirloin  about 4 cups of kraut, 2 cups of sliced onion, a can of beef stock and cup of apple cider in an instant pot with a little  garlic. Half hour later you have an awesome meal.

[tule peak timber]

This year we grew Butterscotch PMR (F1), touted as the tastiest small butternut squash. It met ALL expectations for flavour; outstanding!!! We use it in casseroles, desserts, stuffed shells, etc. and it is delicious. Definitely will grow again and they are not so HUGE so you can use one or two whole squash in a recipe. 

[Paul_H]

Our generation is maybe the first in history that didn't have to grow, prepare and store food to survive and it's becoming a lost art. My grandparents were immigrants from Norway that arrived in the 1920's and raised for healthy children with little money but a lot of experience right through the depression into the second world war with all it's shortages and rationing and still managed to send money to Norway. They had a milk cow, chickens and a garden. They cut hay and carried it on their backs a good half mile at the far end.
Growing up as kids we helped my dad and his brothers with cows pigs and chickens and as well as haying. Butchering and cutting meat were done on Saturdays and was actually a lot of fun with cousins and friends joining in. Learning and bonding.
As a kid I was fascinated with the old ways and the great depression and there were plenty of oldtimers and ex trappers happy to share their stories. Old Orville told me 9 deer would fit in a 45 gal barrel. Cut up, deboned and layered meat,salt meat,salt etc.
My grandma made potato cakes 50/50 potato and flour which made a great meal or desert if you buttered it and sprinkled with sugar. Potatoes are a great way to stretch grains with something that is fairly easy to grow and store.
Spuds are also a good addition to chicken feed and grandpa would buy a couple of sacks of the small potatoes at a bargain price and cook them on the wood stove in the winter months for the chickens.

We grow grain corn every year here and dry beans for storage and either make corn bread or pancakes with the corn or soak it in lye water from our ashes to make tortillas. The beans are used in many things including tacos.
In Feb 2020 when we didn't know what was going to happen with supply chains I bought a couple 35 Gal galvanized garbage cans with good lids and filled it with wheat berries right from the feed store for cheap and mixed in diamotaceous earth to keep out insects and it worked out great. Food grade 5 gal buckets work very well too and if you are concerned with moisture you can add desiccants.

We do as Ian mentioned and buy extra food in bulk when it's on sale and rotate it so it doesn't go to wast. Saves money and helps avoid panic buying sprees in times of trouble.

Diatomaceous Earth For Long Term Storage Of Wheat & Grain (modernsurvivalblog.com)

We've taught our kids that it's better to be prepared so that in a crisis they can be a help instead of helpless.

[Southside]

I have had customers at farmers markets ask me how to prepare and cook hamburger.  These are adults, you can't fault them as they are trying to learn, but oh my the lack of basic knowledge is amazing.  The funny thing is all this technology has actually detracted from not only the quality of our food, but the enjoyment.  I grew up with a wood cook stove and nothing compares to that oven.  My wife had never experienced home made cooking in a wood cook stove until I did it for her - she was shocked at the difference.  

[beenthere]

Yes, the old wood cook stoves had a place for everything. Throw wood in and fill the water reservoir, and pay a lot of attention to it. 

[rusticretreater]

My wife and I usually buy in bulk and put everything in plastic containers.  In many cases its easier to handle as well.  Nothing  edible sits on the floor in the pantry. And the cats have free reign to go in there on their rounds.

[Ianab]

The funny thing is all this technology has actually detracted from not only the quality of our food, but the enjoyment.

It does for some folks, others have figured out how to use the technology to learn pretty much anything they want to know. 

I don't claim to be an expert chef, but I can make all sorts of exotic dishes that we had never heard of growing up.  

But that's something I try and teach the kids, HOW to find this information. Once you know the basics then recipes all make sense. 

[newoodguy78]

A wood stove or wood fired cook stove combined with a cast iron pan older than anyone eating what's cooked in it is where it's at. It's really like nothing else. 

[kantuckid]

History/wood stoves, grinding corn, etc., aside we really appreciate our electric range and eat healthy foods everyday in a wide range of types. 
Nostalgia's OK but so is time to enjoy other things besides fireing up a stove. I'm a guy that gathers nuts, you name it and we raise a huge garden but we also pick our parties when it comes to how much manual food prep we take on. As an e.g., we''l make homemade tortillas and freeze them ahead using masa from Walmart for our corn flour but no we don't grind corn! 
I do have a Blackhawk Corn grinder I'll sell someone cheap though. I gave up on Hickory Cane and other tall old corns best for grinding as Theye'd blow over year after year! Dry beans-I grown some but mostly for fun and to try something different-like my gallon bag of Aunt Violet's Multi colored limas this year. Truth be known, used in chili you'd never know them from a red kidney bean what with all that other stuff in there. I tried Tiger Stripe dry beans but crows dug em up all of them! 
As for who can cook: My wife comes from folks who sewed their own clothes , smoked their hams, you name it but they all bought electric stoves :D
Wife was a double major in college and Home Economics she quickly learned she knew far more about every subject than did the profs back in the 1960's/early 70's when she attended. She could out cook and sew them all as she had real world skills they lacked. 
Yea, folks now can't even sew on a button but most near me can cook unless they're younger and never cared to learn which is a very big number in fact. My DIL's can all cook but not like my wife who knows how w/o the asking.  

 

[Paul_H]

My Dad doesn't want anything to do with wood heat although he has a beautiful stone fireplace and hearth in the living room. It was mostly used for special occasions except when we had an ice storm/silver thaw in 1972 which destroyed power lines and snapped trees and poles. For three days we lived and slept in the living room. Dad like his modern conveniences. His brothers enjoyed cutting and storing wood for winter and their houses were always cozy. Harold his older brother was tending his chickens and bringing up wood to the house right up till a few weeks before he died at 89.

We have a wood cookstove right between the living room and kitchen and it is going most of the time from Oct-Mar and most of the cooking is done on it then. We are happy not to use it in the summer  
We don't watch much TV, just an hour of Goldrush a week in the winter. We appreciate watching the fire in the stove.



This coming week we'll press apples and store apple juice for winter in bottles.





What I find encouraging in the growing harvesting and preparing food is how it connects us to other people doing the same and seeing the large numbers of young people involved. We rent or loan a chicken plucker and the apple press and have met many folks through it and sometimes they'll pay a fee or other times a couple chicken or even milk or pork.
The important part to us in loaning is that it encourages people to try it out and some build their own pluckers and the network grows further still.
Carla made bortsch today all from our garden but didn't have dill so she went to a local family farm and bought some and ran into friends of ours that also farm for a living although Rob supplements with a part time job with a larger farmer a couple days a week. She had a short visit and came home with some other produce and some leads on where to get other products locally. I came home to a very pleasant aroma and a busy but happy wife.

Back to long term storage - Carla dries and vacuum seals a lot of things with a medium sized electric dehydrator and we have a wood fired one for later season bulk drying like apples, tomatoes and plums. The racks also work well for drying herbs in the summer just with daytime heat and wind.

[Walnut Beast]

Pretty neat stuff you have going on Paul!!

[SwampDonkey]

Yes Paul, great little enterprise. My grandmother used a cook stove all her married life, but also had an electric range. It was common to find beans in the wood stove oven on a Saturday, or a molasses cake or bread coming out of there in the winter. I remember when the wood stove she used was the source of heat for hot water year around. She wasn't using the tank on the side back then, but a water closet behind the stove.  My grandmother made 100% of her own butter with a earthen churn and sold it to. Some people would buy all she had and sell it themselves. :D

In my early years we lived from a wood cook stove. My father had wood enough for 4 houses. He kept the house, grandmother's house and 2 potato barns stocked with firewood. And these old farm houses had woodsheds the size of small barns. :D :D We had 400 acres of maple wood. ;D  Not much oak grows up here, just tiny pockets.

I heat the house with wood, I keep 10 cords at the ready. After thanksgiving, there will be another 10 getting knocked down, bucked and hauled into the yard. :D We lose power here often, mostly 2-4 hrs because they are complacent about trimming lines. Our lines on this road have not been trimmed in 25 years. If it weren't for the farm fields adjacent to the ditches it would be far worst. ;)

[SwampDonkey]

Doc, might check out Ready Hour, 2000 cal a day dry goods for emergencies. Keeps 25 years. USA product. I don't know about you, but the weekly grocery bill is $50-80 a week more now for 2 people. And that is food only. Steak is double either at the store or the local grower, they all compete on price. Western Canada pays more for gas than here due to supply disruptions from the mid west to the west coast. Competition for supply is driving it. Dollar per barrel of crude can't fix that.

https://readyhour.com/products/3-month-emergency-food-supply-2-000-calories-day-1

[doc henderson]

That style of emergency food is what led me to this thread.  with supply issues and shortages.  It has to be cheaper to buy regular food and store it.  I figured it would likely be food we looked at and never ate.  If we could just predict the future.

[kantuckid]

We shop a Walmart and sometimes Kroger grocery and while covid has disrupted staples, it mostly is a minor inconvenience. We will see pasta out of stock, back in a week or so, Navy beans same thing but seems to be more a shortage of dairy or snack foods than stuff we live on. There has never been a week that fresh produce-the ones we don't grow or out of season, are not in stock and priced affordably compared to eating out all the time like many do. 
I use a fake spray butter as I have stents and it comes and goes but not like I buy it weekly so we look for whens it's back. The single most item we have to ask a stock person to look for or fetch from the cooler is milk, both fresh and buttermilk and creamer. Partly a not enough help thing, partly that prices are low so restaurants buy up all the half & half and even items like tortillas-but we get what we need, no real need to pile stuff up at all. 
The larger issue is stuff costs way higher than before!!! Try canning lids at the now common rate of $6 a dozen or any number of other items that have way up. Those dry beans are still only around a little over a buck a lb, cannot grow them for that!
This seems to have turned into a Little House on the Prairie episode.  :D 
Yes, we dry apples and can & freeze but it's mostly certain things and the rest come from Wally World and pretty handy too. 
We watch some TV, far less than the average USA'er but we like to keep up on news and events and have our reading times as well, mine is mostly after my shower before supper and to get to sleep reading ~ a book a week. Watching a fire with family is very nice (our Jotul has glass doors) but gets boring soon enough for me. I watch a few TV shows that are all DVR so we skip the pill ads and move on. I tend to be a curmugeon and make fun of much I watch as it's either poorly written or a soap drama too much of the time, not that I've ever in my life watched a soap. Ball games we do religiously but only teams we follow, not game after game stuff and we DVR them too so less dead time and can watch on our terms. 
A certain religion comes to mind for food storage expertise but not OK to mention here. 
One of my cousins, a very, very, rich computer nerd in CA-he stockpiled stuff for 2YK like you wouldn't believe-don't what he's done with it all.  ;D