repurpose for old band blades.

[doc henderson]

I was looking at some old bands.  not worth sharpening again or broken or bent.  i have watches some of the forged in fire, (until it turned into more of a man drama).  Could a person make a Damascus blade with layers of the band.  not sure about the type of steel and other issues layering this.  I have friends who want to try making blades, and it would be a new life for the steel.  I am not comfortable tossing stuff in a recycle bin, as I do not know who or how it will be processed and handled down the line.  any other uses?

[barbender]

I don't see why it wouldn't work. 

I've made a few small carving tools from old blades. Just watch that the steel isn't fatigued, and starting to crack.

[Joe Hillmann]

I have made several knifes out of broken band saw blades by cutting and grinding with an angle grinder.  They make OK knives for rough work but they are to thick to make a nice kitchen knife.  Since they don't make good kitchen knives I have never really tested their edge holding ability but my guess it they would need more frequent sharpening than a somewhat quality kitchen knife.

If you don't want to recycle them because you are worried about them springing out and hurting someone you can break them into 1 foot pieces before you toss them.  That way they can't spring out and cut someone.

[barbender]

Actually band steel is good quality, it takes and holds an edge well. I hate stainless steel kitchen knives.

[doc henderson]

yes I break them up, but I imagen (and know of) some folks with disability and or drug/alcohol issues working in the facilities.  I have then wrapped the bundle in elec. tape, but then wonder if someone has to unwrap and take apart.  I was thinking of forging them into a thicker blade.

[Dan_Shade]

Has anyone tried to harden a blade? 

[doc henderson]

I have seen when they make the Damascus blade they forge then fold over and over again the metal like a pastry ect.  so I though why not start with 10 layers in the beginning.  i am sure there are problems like coatings on the band, impurities ect.  It would be quite the item,  fixed blade knife made from old band saw blades.  many use regular saw blade material.  I understand but have no experience with hardening metal.  I do not know enough about metalurgy and the make up of the blades.  of course they harden the tips on our bands, but what kind of edge all of the above will make, I do not know.  prob. only one way to find out.

[Texas Ranger]

I know little of the metallurgy, but a friend has been making specialty knives for a while with these blades, and when he can find them, gang saw blades.  His process is the same as starting with raw steel.   He anneals, works the blade, and re hardens. He prefers Damascus blades.  He has edge harden some, but it leaves the blade too flexible.  He also makes knives out of railroad spikes, really crude looking blades.  Oh, and he has a triphammer that takes the work out of it. 

[doc henderson]

I know for forge welding, they add flux to bar oxidation and impurities, so did not know if the powder flux has to be used between the layers.

[doc henderson]

I might just set some stuff up, heat and pound and see what happens.  smiley_carpenter_hit_thumb bon_fire

[Gary Davis]

if I had a forge I would try it

[WV Sawmiller]

  I have given many to a friend who wanted them for his brother and dad to make fillet knives out of. He finally turned me off on more for a while as he had all he needed. I have not seen the finished product yet.

[Dan_Shade]

I gave a guy a bad band once, he made a filet knife, but said that it wouldn't hold an edge.

I may take a piece and attempt to harden it when I get a chance. 

I intend to get it nice and red (heat to a magnet does not stick to it), then quench in corn oil.  To see what happens. 

I have no idea what kind of steel the bands are made from, different steels can be oil, water, or air hardening. Mild steel doesn't have enough carbon in it to harden it.

[barbender]

I'm pretty sure it was Woodmizer .055 blades I used to make carving tools. It's been a while. Every brand of band I've ever used has hardened teeth, that tells me the steel is hardenable. 

Dan, maybe that guy didn't retemper that blade, and just ground the profile of the knife on it? The body of a band is a spring temper I think, a little harder than completely annealed but much softer than a cutting edge should be. 

All of this is making me want to buy one of those little propane forges off Amazon and make some more tools😊

[Larry]

Rumor has it WM bands are 15n20 steel.  Again a rumor as WM will not comment other than it is similar.  That steel is often used in Damascus layered with another steel.

Matt Parkinson, the first winner of Forged in Fire taught a week long course at Eureka Springs School of the Arts which I attended a few years ago.  A whole week of pounding iron.  I decided I liked the stock removal method better....  The school usually has a couple of weekend knife making classes in the year with excellent teachers.  Not to far for you to travel Doc.

[Dan_Shade]

Dan, maybe that guy didn't retemper that blade, and just ground the profile of the knife on it? 

I doubt that he attempted to harden it. 

[Larry]

You can harden in canola oil just fine, forget used motor oil.  After that temper in a toaster oven at 400 degrees for a hour or two.  I use McMaster Carr 11 second oil to harden.

[Crusarius]

If you guys have the ability to watch any of the forged in fire you really should. It is very educational and the best and only reality show I will watch. 

It is not like normal reality shows where it is all drama and cutthroat attacks. Most of the time the competitors will actually help each other out.

[Al_Smith]

You can oil harden any steel if the carbon content is high enough .The trick is annealing it back so it isn't brittle .Just prove a point I hardened a piece of mild steel and used the age old method of inducing carbon using brown sugar and made a lathe tool from it .Took it to work and cut mild steel with it .
Some of these methods in a modern world have been long forgotten but they still work .
Just so you know some of these wild methods I use are not my ideas .In my teenaged years with long hair and a black motorcycle jacket those tough old WW2 and WW1 vets took me under wing taught me a lot and I didn't forget it .That's the way it was in the 60's .60 years later I find myself being the old vet . ;D

[Al_Smith]

As far as actual "Damascus " that goes way back in history and the methods from all over the known world .To simplify it it's just hammer forging welding  layer upon layer of hard and softer steel together to form it .In between heats the blade blank was buried in the charcoal or coke fire bed where it absorbed some of the carbon .Interesting but it would take a month of Sundays to do .

[Al_Smith]

For that matter you could case or surface harden steel with a compound like "cherry red " .The flux afore mentioned could be borax like in 20 Mule Team or Boraxo .Decades ago before they made flux coated brazing rods this is what we used on the brass rods . I still use it on the rare times I need to do repairs on cast iron then either braze it or use nickel welding rods with arc welding . I prefer the later method if possible but either method is a little tricky not for a novice .

[willscot]

2 types of steel are used for damascus, mild gives toughness and high carbon to hold an edge. The layers are welded and very thin layers are developed, the more layers the better the damascus. Borax alone or with sand can be used as flux. To harden heat to cherry red quench in oil with knife edge parallel to surface, quench straight up and down. Polish the piece and hold  edge side up and parallel over heat, watch as colors move from back up to the edge, yellow, straw, brown, purple, blue. Quench in water when straw color reaches edge, in same manner as in oil, edge down, parallel to surface.
  Using a large mass of metal heated red hot as a little easier, as you can lay back of knife on it and watch the colors run. This process anneals the the back more than edge, leaving edge harder for sharpening and back softer for toughness. Colors correspond to temperature. Higher temp softens the steel more, yellow color is coolest leaving the steel hardest, blue is hottest making steel softer.

[Al_Smith]

Generally speaking around 1400 F is the "critical " temp of most carbon steel which is orange .You can find the color charts on the internet .
I've only delved into it once and  that was making a hob to machine a brass worm gear wheel on an engine lathe .--yes it can be done .That hob was basically a slightly over sized worm gear with teeth cut in it .I used A2 steel which I flame hardened and oil quenched --yes you can also do that .
There's old blacksmith tricks most people never heard about .For instance case hardening mild steel by inducing carbon using brown sugar.( C6-H12-O6 ) Crude but it works .Let me put it this way .Methods that worked in the early middle ages still work today .