PTO Winch Build

[OH_Varmntr]

I've had these parts for nearly a year now and with the need to use such a piece of equipment more present than ever, it's time to put them all together and make a functional implement now.  We are going to be clearing trails and establishing habitat for wildlife in our small stand of timber and will be utilizing this to grab logs for both firewood and the sawmill.  It will be going on my tractor which has a PTO rating of 34 hp.  

Here's a bit of mock-up and figuring out PTO height.


My oldest helping layout the 2x6x3/16" tubing for the PTO crossmember.


Setting the drum shaft height.  Hindsight being what it is, I would have set this lower in order to have more center to center distance between the drum and the top block.


1/2" thick drum flanges welded up and friction material mounted to 60 tooth driven sprocket.


It's getting a bit heavy now so the 3-pt attachment points are next so I can move it around easier.  PTO input shaft mocked up.


Now it's really getting heavy.  The 8" flat horizontal pieces are 3/4" thick.  It's what we had lying around so it's what got used.  The frame is 30" wide, the horizontal pieces are 48" wide.  Also note the double 2x6 top pieces with the 1" 4140 rod sticking out.  That rod is 12" long and half of it is buried and welded inside the top 2x6.  More on that later.


The shaft is 1.5" 4140 material that has been bored to a depth of 2" on one end.  A piece of 1.5"x5TPI ACME rod was then turned down to match the bore cut into the shaft.  It was then threaded for a 1" nut.  The ACME nut will be used for shifting the winch drum into the driven sprocket/clutch via a lever welded to a collar on the nut.  More on that later as well.


The shaft is also cross-drilled at the other end to fit into a block on the tractor-side of the frame and accept a locating pin.  This pin fixes the shaft in place so that it can be easily removed for service/repair when I break something.  It's kind of a bad picture to show the detail, I'll have to take another picture.


Friction material has been mounted to the driven sprocket.  The shaft has been installed, the ACME threaded rod inserted into the shaft and welded into place.


The drum is a piece of 8" long, 3.5" OD heavy wall pipe with 13" flanges welded on.  They are 1/2" thick.  The pipe ID has been bored to accept a steel bushing that has been bored to accept bronze bushings.  These are essentially sealed into the drum by the flanges.  Here you can see the driven sprocket/clutch, the drum, the thrust washer pack, then the ACME nut/collar assembly installed.


Closer detail.


The drumshaft plate is then bolted onto the top 3/4" thick bashplate then the shaft secured to it via the 1" nut.  It was at this point last night that I noticed one of the 1-3/8" pillow block bearing cast iron housings was cracked.  I knew better than to buy cheap Chinese bearings from SurplusCenter and now I'm facing those consequences.  I've got a few Rexnord units on their way and I should have them in a few days.


So this is where it sits at this time.  I need to finish welding the side plates around the upper block and makes a pivoting cable guide.  You can also see the bottom bashplate is about 2" above the bottom of the frame uprights.  I'll be making an angled plow plate much like what commercial units have to engage the ground for stability.


My order from Wallingford's came in.  3 slider/chain choker assemblies and 250' of 7/16" cable.


PTO shaft bearing stiffener plates.


The ACME nut had 6 flats on it.  The points were milled off to provide 12 flats on the nut for indexing the collar on for adjustment of the engagement lever as the clutch wears.  This way I won't have to tear it apart to shim anything.  I left the nut full width in case I needed to cut it down later for clearance.  Another guy on another forum mentioned his experience with these roller-style thrust bearings being mostly negative so if I need to run a heavier (i.e. thicker) thrust bearing, I can make room for them by reducing the thickness of the ACME nut to gain clearance.


Ok so here's the pivoting upper block.  The plates are welded to a 1" ID piece of seamless tubing that slides over a piece of 1" 4140 shaft.  Holes were drilled in the upper piece of 2x6 tubing, the shaft inserted and welded throughout and a reinforcement place was welded on the tractor-side of the frame for increased stiffness.  There is a high-load thrust washer and hardened washer between the seamless tubing and the top of the 2x6 tubing.  The seamless tubing will be drilled and tapped to accept a grease zerk once I figure out the assembly's final configuration.  


I'd like to think I'll have this up and running this weekend, so we will see how that plan works out.  The weather here hasn't been conducive to running equipment in the woods without tearing things up and I'm hoping the addition of this winch helps me be productive during these types of conditions.  

[Walnut Beast]

Looks great! Looking forward to more pictures and feedback👍. 

[thecfarm]

Looks like it will work.
I see you bought skidder slides. I have a norse winch and have the small 3 point size. We hauled out a lot of pine 3 feet across with those. Some even 4 feet across.
I ran 6 slides on mine. Sometimes all 6 are used with small stuff sometimes only one is used.
I made up 6 short chains, 4 feet. Those gets used now more than the 8 foot ones.





Just wanted to show you the boxes for the chains. There's about 3 feet hanging, the rest is in the box.
You can see the bright red hooks on top. Those are the 4 foot chains.
Don't pull at a sharp angle. You will roll the tractor over if the log gets caught on something.
Put the hook low, on the ground, to roll the log when pulling it towards you. This gets the limbs you missed on top and it helps out getting the log going.
No need to run the throttle up high with small stuff. Needs some RPMs but not the whole 540.
Don't look behind you too long. The front could be coming up and you would not know it.
Watch what is coming towards you when winching in. Not just the log, but the slash and other stuff. I have had some dead stubs try to take me off my feet a few times.
Keep away from the tractor when winching in. The tractor could/can slide back.
I don't have a picture, but on a norse winch where the 2 lower pins are, they built around them so I can just about put a pin into them. Those are the round ones with a ¼ inch pin. This way it will not and cannot send that pin flying and unhook when a small tree/bush hits it. Or it never has in more than 25 years.
You will enjoy that winch.
250 feet of cable is a lot. I only ran 150 on mine. It's hard to walk in a straight line out in the woods. Very rare I ran out even 100 feet in the woods.
Down in the meadow, I could use that 250 feet.
You got enough room on that drum? Too much and it will fall outside the drum.

[Hilltop366]

Looking good so far.

A couple of things I don't see mentioned is a way to stop the winch drum from turning backwards like a break or pawl the other is a way to prevent "bird nesting" when pulling out the cable.

My winch has a adjustable drag that slows the drum down, it works ok but you are pulling against it when pulling out cable, my brothers winch has a drag that has a spring loaded leaver that runs up above the drum that rubs against the cable so that when you pull on the cable it releases the drag and as soon as you stop the cable goes slack and lets the drag rub on the drum to stop it from turning. The spring does not need to very heavy.

[OH_Varmntr]

Looks like it will work.
I see you bought skidder slides. I have a norse winch and have the small 3 point size. We hauled out a lot of pine 3 feet across with those. Some even 4 feet across.
I ran 6 slides on mine. Sometimes all 6 are used with small stuff sometimes only one is used.
I made up 6 short chains, 4 feet. Those gets used now more than the 8 foot ones.





Just wanted to show you the boxes for the chains. There's about 3 feet hanging, the rest is in the box.
You can see the bright red hooks on top. Those are the 4 foot chains.
Don't pull at a sharp angle. You will roll the tractor over it the log gets caught on something.
Put the hook low, on the ground, to roll the log when pulling it towards you. This gets the limbs you missed on top and it helps out getting the log going.
No need to run the throttle up high with small stuff. Needs some RPMs but not the whole 540.
Don't look behind you too long. The front could be coming up and you would not know it.
Watch what is coming towards you when winching in. Not just the log, but the slash and other stuff. I have had some dead stubs try to take me off my feet a few times.
Keep away from the tractor when winching in. The tractor could/can slide back.
I don't have a picture, but on a norse winch where the 2 lower pins are, they built around them so I can just about put a pin into them. Those are the round ones with a ¼ inch pin. This way it will not and cannot send that pin flying and unhook when a small tree/bush hits it. Or it never has in more than 25 years.
You will enjoy that winch.
250 feet of cable is a lot. I only ran 150 on mine. It's hard to walk in a straight line out in the woods. Very rare I ran out even 100 feet in the woods.
Down in the meadow, I could use that 250 feet.
You got enough room on that drum? Too much and it will fall outside the drum.

Thank you for the info.  I plan on building small boxes as well to hold chains and other things related to the winch to keep them with it instead of on my tractor.

The drum was calculated to hold a bit over 300 feet if needed.  I'll see how it looks with 250 on it.  It is considerably more than most commercially available units come with but even if I don't use it all, it will give me extra to be able to cut bad ends off and still maintain enough on the spool to be useful.  It does derate the pulling power of the winch with more wraps on but I doubt I will overload the winch.

Looking good so far.

A couple of things I don't see mentioned is a way to stop the winch drum from turning backwards like a break or pawl the other is a way to prevent "bird nesting" when pulling out the cable.

My winch has a adjustable drag that slows the drum down, it works ok but you are pulling against it when pulling out cable, my brothers winch has a drag that has a spring loaded leaver that runs up above the drum that rubs against the cable so that when you pull on the cable it releases the drag and as soon as you stop the cable goes slack and lets the drag rub on the drum to stop it from turning. The spring does not need to very heavy.

I do not have any kind of pawl or tension system in the works at this time.  I wanted to spend time getting it functional with the essentials then I can add in other things as needed.  I didn't want to spend a bunch of time building stuff that I may not utilize anyways.  If I do end up building a drag system, I would probably build some sort of spring loaded lever that would apply a rotational drag to the face of the drum flange during free-spool.  

I see many people utilize the drum holding pawls for transporting logs but to me, the winch is only to be utilized to bring the logs to the base of the winch frame.  The chains will then be dropped into slots I will cut into the top of the bashplate and use the 3-pt lift to raise the logs and skid them from there.

I have not run one of these before so I'm sure there will be things I will want to modify as I get accustomed to its operation.

[Hilltop366]

I can see getting away without a pawl and using chain slots. I'll admit I never have used them, one reason being it adds more steps to the process the other is if you get a bit stuck going over a rough area it is nice to be able to release the load and drive past the difficult ground and then pull the logs back in, so handy but not necessary.

The drag I would consider necessary unless you find the winch has some natural drag to it, I would suggest giving the cable a good tug and see what happens before going in the woods.

The winch that my brother has use to be owned by my uncle, he was having trouble with the drag so he removed it and went in the woods were he pulled out the cable and never noticed the mess and tried to winch in a log, he came back in no time with the cable jammed up on both sides of the drum and the guard. I ended up taking the winch all apart to get the cable out and cutting off a bunch cable that had kinked and wrapped over it self in such a way that you could no longer pull the cable out.

[Walnut Beast]

Here is a picture of a cable tensioner. You could and should make one or you could have a mess on your hands. I don't know how big of stuff your going to winch but if it's big stuff you need good snatch blocks and a good anchor point on the front of the tractor and a tree saver strap to anchor you in place

[OH_Varmntr]

I can see getting away without a pawl and using chain slots. I'll admit I never have used them, one reason being it adds more steps to the process the other is if you get a bit stuck going over a rough area it is nice to be able to release the load and drive past the difficult ground and then pull the logs back in, so handy but not necessary.

The drag I would consider necessary unless you find the winch has some natural drag to it, I would suggest giving the cable a good tug and see what happens before going in the woods.

The winch that my brother has use to be owned by my uncle, he was having trouble with the drag so he removed it and went in the woods were he pulled out the cable and never noticed the mess and tried to winch in a log, he came back in no time with the cable jammed up on both sides of the drum and the guard. I ended up taking the winch all apart to get the cable out and cutting off a bunch cable that had kinked and wrapped over it self in such a way that you could no longer pull the cable out.

Point taken, it will be a simple addition to my setup so I may take the time to figure something out before her maiden voyage.  At this point I have no idea how much effort will be required to unspool the winch.  

Here is a picture of a cable tensioner. You could and should make one or you could have a mess on your hands. I don't know how big of stuff your going to winch but if it's big stuff you need good snatch blocks and a good anchor point on the front of the tractor and a tree saver strap to anchor you in place

I don't forsee anything more than 20-24" DBH.  If my tractor begins to move on me I'll just reposition.  

I won't be voluntarily strapping the front of the tractor to a tree.  Sounds like a great way for a winch-assisted tractor splitting.   :D

[Walnut Beast]

I've winched some monster black gold with a snatch block assisted and even then when your 15k machine gets pulled backwards you chain and strap up to anchor to move monster stuff if you want to get it done ✅ 

[thecfarm]

He's building a butt plate. That will hold ya. Or it does me.
I have twitched in some BIG logs with mine.
The only trouble I have is in my driveway, level and ice, it can't dig in.
The only time I really hard a hard time when I straddled an 18 inch dead fir with snow on the ground. That butt plate could not dig into the dead fir.

[OH_Varmntr]

I've winched some monster black gold with a snatch block assisted and even then when your 15k machine gets pulled backwards you chain and strap up to anchor to move monster stuff if you want to get it done ✅

It's your machine to do with as you wish    

My machine?  No thanks.  

He's building a butt plate. That will hold ya. Or it does me.
I have twitched in some BIG logs with mine.
The only trouble I have is in my driveway, level and ice, it can't dig in.
The only time I really hard a hard time when I straddled an 18 inch dead fir with snow on the ground. That butt plate could not dig into the dead fir.

Yep, and if it doesn't hold, I'll reposition and go again.

[Hilltop366]

I usually just let it slide backwards until it digs in or fetches up on a stump or rock.

Wait until you stall the tractor and let the winch go just in time that the engine starts running backwards.  :D

[sawguy21]

That would be entertaining, 1 speed forward 4 reverse. ;D

[g_man]

I usually just let it slide backwards until it digs in or fetches up on a stump or rock.

Wait until you stall the tractor and let the winch go just in time that the engine starts running backwards.  :D

That happened to me one time. Took me a couple seconds to figure out what just happened. Engine ran fine just sounded a little different. I guess you could call it entertaining in hind sight. Pull on the control rope and cable starts coiling off the drum inside the winch 
If I were you OH_V I would at least plan for a pawl brake so it will be easy to add later. They are pretty useful when you want to hold tension on the line.
gg

[OH_Varmntr]

I usually just let it slide backwards until it digs in or fetches up on a stump or rock.

Wait until you stall the tractor and let the winch go just in time that the engine starts running backwards.  :D

That happened to me one time. Took me a couple seconds to figure out what just happened. Engine ran fine just sounded a little different. I guess you could call it entertaining in hind sight. Pull on the control rope and cable starts coiling off the drum inside the winch  
If I were you OH_V I would at least plan for a pawl brake so it will be easy to add later. They are pretty useful when you want to hold tension on the line.
gg

I will take that into consideration.  I can't see where I would need it but that's because my mind is full of perfect scenarios  :D
Last night I finished the upper block and made a cable guide for it also.
I got a little antsy after things went a bit quicker than I expected so I cut the PTO shaft down to length, installed the chain and engaged the PTO switch. 
It engages nicely and is quite smooth at idle.  I do not have the chain tensioner figured out yet so there was plenty of slop in the chain and didn't want to cause issues so idle speed was enough.  I bought spare masterlinks but only bought full links and not half links so I'm a bit limited to chain length adjustment at the moment.  
My Rexnord pillow block bearings should be here today, but so is another package for project which hopefully will result in some squirrel stew in the next few days.  It will be nice to get out in the woods with my boy. 

[Crusarius]

Chain tensioner is as easy as a smooth pulley and a slotted hole on the plate. it doesn;t need to be super tight to work.

Nice build. thanks for taking us along.

[g_man]

If I were you OH_V I would at least plan for a pawl brake so it will be easy to add later. They are pretty useful when you want to hold tension on the line.
gg

I will take that into consideration.  I can't see where I would need it but that's because my mind is full of perfect scenarios  :D

One example would be to fell a tree against it's lean when you don't want to stand under it pounding wedges because the top is dead and fragile looking. Use a snatch block so your tractor is not in the fall line. Put your choker high and put just enough tension on the cable to hold the tee while cutting it. Leave a good hinge and winch the tree over.



 


 
Another would be cable maintenance where every once in a while or after you make a kink you would put a choker on an tree at shoulder height and then back your tractor across an open space to string out all the cable. Then put enough tension on the cable to lift it off the ground. Run your gloved hand along the cable to find all the wires sticking out and cut them off flush. Leave the cable under tension like that over night to let it relax.
You will find more as you learn how many different things a winch can be used for.
gg

[Hilltop366]

Some winch chain tensioners are nothing more than a piece steel a little bit thinner than the chain rollers with a arc shape that rides on the chain rollers and is welded to a pivot arm and has a spring.

[DDW_OR]

this is my Farmi 501, 11,000 pound pull winch
bottom edge is designed to dig into the ground - LOVE IT

what i wish it had
2 inch Trailer hitch so i can tow a trailer for the logs.
would keep the dirt out of the bark
chainsaw scabbard





 
also made a job-box
used 4x4 on bottom for skid



 
lid has builtin legs when open


 
plenty of room for 4 chainsaws
1x10 to separate saws from tools. it is not connected to anything


 
i was going to put in a board to fill the gap, but have found it Very usefull
is a place for the saw guard
and an opening to the box without opening the lid



the tractor rear fenders have a flat that is perfect for a storage box
 

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Chain tensioner is as easy as a smooth pulley and a slotted hole on the plate. it doesn;t need to be super tight to work.

Nice build. thanks for taking us along.

I should have clarified that I already have an idler sprocket and a spring from my sawmill drive belt tensioner I built.  I just need to fashion up an adjustable mount.

Thanks for the kind words, I referenced your sawmill build multiple times when building my Linn sawmill.  

If I were you OH_V I would at least plan for a pawl brake so it will be easy to add later. They are pretty useful when you want to hold tension on the line.
gg

I will take that into consideration.  I can't see where I would need it but that's because my mind is full of perfect scenarios  :D

One example would be to fell a tree against it's lean when you don't want to stand under it pounding wedges because the top is dead and fragile looking. Use a snatch block so your tractor is not in the fall line. Put your choker high and put just enough tension on the cable to hold the tee while cutting it. Leave a good hinge and winch the tree over.



 


 
Another would be cable maintenance where every once in a while or after you make a kink you would put a choker on an tree at shoulder height and then back your tractor across an open space to string out all the cable. Then put enough tension on the cable to lift it off the ground. Run your gloved hand along the cable to find all the wires sticking out and cut them off flush. Leave the cable under tension like that over night to let it relax.
You will find more as you learn how many different things a winch can be used for.
gg

I can't argue those points!

Some winch chain tensioners are nothing more than a piece steel a little bit thinner than the chain rollers with a arc shape that rides on the chain rollers and is welded to a pivot arm and has a spring.

I've seen some that are block of HDPE cut at a radius for the slider.  Lots of ideas!

this is my Farmi 501, 11,000 pound pull winch
bottom edge is designed to dig into the ground - LOVE IT

what i wish it had
2 inch Trailer hitch so i can tow a trailer for the logs.
would keep the dirt out of the bark
chainsaw scabbard





 
also made a job-box
used 4x4 on bottom for skid



 
lid has builtin legs when open


 
plenty of room for 4 chainsaws
1x10 to separate saws from tools. it is not connected to anything


 
i was going to put in a board to fill the gap, but have found it Very usefull
is a place for the saw guard
and an opening to the box without opening the lid



the tractor rear fenders have a flat that is perfect for a storage box


 

Nice winch.  If all of my calculations are correct, my first layer line pull is theoretically somewhere around 10,300lbs.

The hitch receiver is definitely on my list of things to add.  Hindsight being what it is, I should've made provisions for it prior to welding the bashplates on.  I just picked up a different plasma cutter that will whittle out the 3/4" plate just fine.

I have some 2x6 tubing left over from this build so I'll be adding a few lengths of it to my tractor FEL frame for scabbards.  I'd like to refrain from storing a saw on the winch as it just seems like an invite to destroy it one way or another.   

I'll be heading back out to the shop tonight to install my new bearings that came in today and will hopefully get the winch spooled.  More pics to come...

[thecfarm]

I myself would not carry my chainsaw on the winch. I have bent my protective shield by backing up when I was trying to take a sharp corner.
I know I should not have any sharp corners but my land is hard to get around on.
Then too it's quicker to take less at times too. And to cut it in half too.
Here's a video on what I did and do.

how to mount a chainsaw on your tractor

[Walnut Beast]

DDW Very nice setup!!!

Winch setups can do some amazing things and when you add in snatch blocks and tree savers you can do extraordinary things!

[DDW_OR]

here is how several people came up for scabbards. most are mounted to the tractor, not the winch

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,84198.0/all.html#top

[DDW_OR]

DDW Very nice setup!!!

Winch setups can do some amazing things and when you add in snatch blocks and tree savers you can do extraordinary things!

thank you
the pallet fork has 2 extra forks to make it into a pitch fork
have thought of mounting a sheet of steel to the underside of the tractor for a skid plate

[OH_Varmntr]

I myself would not carry my chainsaw on the winch. I have bent my protective shield by backing up when I was trying to take a sharp corner.
I know I should not have any sharp corners but my land is hard to get around on.
Then too it's quicker to take less at times too. And to cut it in half too.
Here's a video on what I did and do.

how to mount a chainsaw on your tractor

That's where I thought of installing them also, thank you for that video.  I figure the safest place on a tractor while in normal operation is the operators station, so the saw might as well live close to there.  Then I ponder the number of saws to take with me.  I've run my MS460 solely since I got it, but with the increase in productivity the winch will hopefully unlock, I can see longer days in the woods on the horizon and don't want to fatigue with a heavier saw.  Switching between the 25" and 16" saws seems like a better choice but then I have to carry both around.
These compact tractors are just that, compact!  If it were a bit of a more vintage tractor, they tend to have much more space to stick a saw (or two).