Bandmill blade coming off !

[VA-Sawyer]

Yesterday afternoon I started having this problem. The blade is coming off the wheels while cutting. The blade gets pushed behind the drive wheels and is raising cane big time.   >:(  I changed to a new blade, same problem. Lube water ran out shortly before problem showed up. Added more lube water but the line had frozen. Between the blade coming off and the lube problem I called it a day. Brought the mill home and replaced both V-belt/tires. (New ones from WM) Blade guide alignment and down adjustment checked OK. Thawed out the water lines with a hair dryer. Ran saw and checked tracking.
This morning I drove back to customer site. Installed another new blade. Cut about 3 ft in same log I had problem with yesterday and the blade came off again. >:(   Changed to different log. Dropped to very slow feed speed. About 3 ft into new log the blade came off again.  Brought the mill home again.  :(  Washed it down and checked all the alignment adjustmens. Performed very minor tweaking.  Grabbed  the sharpest blade from my 'dull' stack. Cut yellow popular log...no problem. Moved to my pine pile and cut 7 or 8 logs with no problem. Tried to cause the problem by using excess feed speed. I could bog the engine, but I couldn't push the blade off the wheels. Ground was too soft to get to my oak pile. Will try it in the morning after tonights refreeze.
Have any of you had this before ?  Suggestions ?  Wag's ?
VA-Sawyer

[Tom]

Yep.  Cutting pine the tar would get on the V-belt and make it sticky.  The blade would come off.

The guides were misadjusted and the blade began to dive. It got so deep that it lost contact with the support on the back of the guide wheel.  Blade came off.

A helpful customer decided to help me change blades by loosening the hydraulic tensioner.  He was turning the handle counter clockwise but it was the wrong handle.  It was the one that adusts the toe-in on the idler wheel.  He didn't tell me he had done it.  I started sawing again and ......the blade came off. Took a while to find out what was wrong.

note:  if the blade is riding on the guides properly then there should not be any cutting pressure on the V-belt.

[D._Frederick]

VA.
If it was cold enough to freeze your lube water, a good guess is that the cold had something to do with your problem. Two area's were cold could be a problem. Your hydraulic blade tensioner may not be tensioning the blade enough. The lube water may have frozen on the band wheel tires or the blade causing them to be slick.

[Swede]

VA-Sawyer.

Yes! Ice on the wheels is what strikes me first if all adjustments are OK. Wather and cold is a bad combination. Whats wrong with diesel/oil mixed 50/50? Just 10 drops/minute.

[VA-Sawyer]

Ice on the wheels/blade could have been the problem the first day, but it was almost 40 F on the second morning.  Haven't had any problems since I washed the saw down.  I think it was a sawdust build up somewhere that was making trouble. I had called WM for help that morning. They said look for buildup in the pulley grooves...none found. They also suspected tension problems, but when I did the hammer tap trick the pressure only changed about 150 psi.  The only thing I noticed was the dust buildup in the tires was much heaver than normal. Even the new tires had the heavy buildup in only a couple of minutes run time.

New question:  Do you run the size belts suggested by WM ( loose ) or the tighter ones ?

VA-Sawyer

[Kirk_Allen]

VA-Sawyer -  I tried the Urathane belts from Suffolk on me LT-40 with no luck.  They would run fine for about 10 minutes and then the vibration would pick up to a point where I had to shut down and take them off.  

I spent hours on the phone with Suffolk on this issue and they insisted Im not putting them on right.  I installed them 5 different times and even only one wheel at a time with them and the same results.  Smooth as glass the first few minutes and then once the vibration starts it never goes away and only gets worse.

I went back to the B-57 belt but this last set seems to big.  They dont fit as tight as the old set I had.  I purchased the Goodyear brand from a local Auto parts strore.

One thing Suffolk did tell me when I returned the Urathane belts was that I should go to one size smaller (B-56) instead of the B-57.  They said the extra slap on the blade from the B-57 would wear out blades faster.

Not sure if thats true and have been unable to confirm this with WM.  I do know that I am on my 6th resharp of the last batch of blades I bought and so far so good.  

I'm due for new belts and may try the B56.  Let us know if you find out anything on the smaller belt.

[Swede]

Kirk Allen;

Is the PUR-belts elastic so they fit close on the wheel or are they reinforsed like regular B-belts or just a little rope of polyester in the midle??
 Do they slack where the blade doesen´t pull them to place because of centifugal power?
It´s a conditon for not get build-up inside the belt.......Isn´t it? ???

Swede.

[Kirk_Allen]

Swede,
The Urathane belts are solid Urathane and are very, very snug fitting belts.  They take some work to get on and there is no slack anywhere when they are installed.

They told me to use dish soap on them and the wheel to assist in installation.  They sit in the channel of the wheel snugly with no gaps at all.

They claimed the sawdust would NEVER stick to the Urathane and that it would all but eliminate vibration.  

Well, I didnt get to use them long enough to disprove the sawdust issue because the vibration was so bad they couldnt be used.

[ronwood]

Kirk,

Why did the Urathane belts cause vibration? Was it due to the sawdust building up?

Thanks
Ron

[Kirk_Allen]

Ron,
We could not identify the problem.  Everything would be smooth as glass for the first few minutes and then it would start to vibrate.  Saw dust build up was not the problem.  Belts were clean.

Suffolk told me it was the mill.  I put my old belts back on and no problems at all.

I tried everything they suggested and no matter what, the same results.  10 minutes of great smooth cutting and then it would start shaking.

I was all excited when I first cranked it up it was so smooth. I couldn't believe a belt could make that much of a difference but it did.  Then, like I said, 10 minutes later my heart sank because the mill shook real bad!

Suffolk insists that its a problem with the mill and gave me a refund on the belts.  I know its not the mill, as I have cut thousands of board feet since then with no problems.

They told me that they would inspect the belts when returned to see if it was a defect but my follow up with them only gets ignorance.  What I mean is, they now say that I got my credit and thats the end of it.  They dint inspect a returned belt for a defect.  Sad part is the guy telling me this is the one who told me to return it so they could inspect it.

Oh well, big organizations deal with a bunch of people so I can only assume they don't recall telling me to return them for inspection.

[Buzz-sawyer]

The sad truth is they arent remotely concerned about QUALITY control or product development...regarding the input of a small consumer...they cut losses with you and move on ...instead of identifying potential design or application problems and fixing them...such is the BEAST ...corporate monstrsity that is.....
Don

[Kirk_Allen]

Buzz, Im sure your correct.  Its sad to see but reality is what it is.  It's a shame they couldnt fix the problem because the belts were impressive when you start out.

Who know, it may have been something simple in the manufacturing process that could have been fixed.

They would have had an out spoken supporter for their product but instead they have an out spoken unhappy consumer.  Note, I wasnt impressed with the saw blade they sent me either.  After 400 BF of Red Oak it was dull and had to be changed.

[gmmills]

Kirk,
  Sorry to here about  the urathane belts. I've been using them for 6 months now and had very little premature blade breakage. I am usually able sharpen them until they become too narrow to use.                                    
  I had the same problem as you the first time I put them on . took them off and set aside until had time to call. Talked to CEO,Art, t he told me to forget the water and use straight dish soap . I made sure to completely lube the v goove and belt . You can't use toooo much. I needed help to pry them on,soapy hands. I let them set over nite to seat in . The  next day ran smooth as silk. So far had real good luck .
  I've used three of their blades . The blade body is too soft for me.

[Kirk_Allen]

gm:
The only thing I did different than what you outlined was I did not let them sit over night.  I too, spoke with Suffolk and was told the same thing but they told me I should be able to run them 10 minutes after installing them.

Now Im torqued >:(

I wish I had tried that to see if it made a difference.  I didnt becasue they insisted I didnt need to.   They did run smooth, but just not for very long.

You can have their blades.  Not at all impressed.

[VA-Sawyer]

Problem solved !!!!!    :  Customer and I were looking at options. I asked if we could find a way to pressure wash the logs. Turned out his friend had a gas powered hot water pressure washer we could use. We tried it on Monday, what a big improvement. I wasn't worried about the frozen mud on the logs because I thought the debarker would take care of it. Apparently not.  :(    It seems that if I hit a really thick section of frozen grime, that the debarker would skim over it. Then the grime would dull the blade so fast that it would completely stop foward progress and shove off the guides without warning.  I'm still having to slow down for big knots, but that's pretty normal. Can't believe the improvement.
VA-Sawyer