buying a MS 880 - looking for bar options

pshupe · May 30, 2020, 01:23:17 PM

Good afternoon. I just joined this forum today. I've been milling logs as a hobby for about 7 yrs now. I started with a MS 460 and an Alaskan mill and now have a MS 660 with Alaskan mil and a Logosol F2+. I'm finding most of the time I get a call it is about a very large diameter but short chunk of a log that the arborist or city don't want to move or try and chip. So I'm buying a MS 880 to cut about 40" widths. I haven't bought the saw yet, just getting prices. What are my bar options for around 48" bars? My Alaskan sawmill tops out at 48" and I'm thinking most of the logs will be around 30" - 40" in diameter. Anything smaller I can use my 660 with a 36" bar. The Stihl 47" bar is an option but it's Can$450. That seems a little pricey but might be reasonable?? Thanks for any tips.

Cheers Peter.

sawguy21 · May 30, 2020, 02:05:31 PM

Welcome! The long bars are specialty low production items and the prices reflect that. We are also victims of an unfavorable exchange rate. Oregon is readily available in Canada but don't know if they can supply the length you want. Cannon is high quality and Canadian made but expensive.

pshupe · May 30, 2020, 04:24:56 PM

Thanks for the quick response. I was hoping it was a case of the dealer having an over priced saw branded item that is making him more money. TBH I thought those big bars would be in the $250 range seeing as my 36" for my 660 wasn't much north of $150. I checked Oregon and Cannon and couldn't find the length I want. Might just have to call and talk to a human.

Thanks again.

Regards Peter.

pshupe · May 31, 2020, 09:32:34 AM

I've searched the internet and haven't really found any bars at all around the 48" mark. Even on the Stihl site. I found the 47" Stihl Rollomatic series in an amazon saw/ bar-chain catalogue from 2016 but that's the only place I have found anything. It does not show an item number. Even the Stihl usa website shows bars up to 60" but skips the 47", going from 41" - 59".

Does anyone know where I would find or a place I could call to find a bar that would fit an 880 that is about 48"? Thanks.

Regards Peter.

lxskllr · May 31, 2020, 10:13:43 AM

Try contacting Cannon. I believe they'll make a bespoke bar for you of any dimensions you want.

ehp · June 01, 2020, 09:06:34 PM

most of the longer bars in Canada have been going to Japan for the 880/088, even most of the 880 power heads go there . I had to wait 3 months last year for a new 880 with the 41 inch bar setup as Stihl had zero in stock . The 60 inch bar setup is cheaper to buy than the 47 inch , the 60 inch bar I had was just a hard nose setup

pshupe · June 01, 2020, 09:39:17 PM

Thanks - I called a local Stihl dealer here and they had an 880 in stock with a 24" bar for $1999. I might ask about the 60" bar but I'd have to buy a bigger alaskan sawmill. Or take the nose guard off. Don't thing that'd be a good idea. ;-)

Cheers Peter.

Ed · June 02, 2020, 12:46:02 AM

Quote from: ehp on June 01, 2020, 09:06:34 PM
most of the longer bars in Canada have been going to Japan for the 880/088, even most of the 880 power heads go there . I had to wait 3 months last year for a new 880 with the 41 inch bar setup as Stihl had zero in stock . The 60 inch bar setup is cheaper to buy than the 47 inch , the 60 inch bar I had was just a hard nose setup

Good grief, Stihl is still making that bar with a hardnose? Wth?
Sent mine out years ago and had a sprocket tip put on it.
Ed

ehp · June 02, 2020, 07:43:31 AM

If your in Canada that's not a bad price , not great but not bad . 24 inch bar is not much good to you thou as your 36 inch setup with the 660 if running 3/8 chain would be better . The 47 inch setup is a real bar so ask for the price of saw with that setup, the bar price should go down as its a set. The 41 inch is not as good of bar as the 47 inch

pshupe · June 02, 2020, 08:20:22 AM

Yes - I am in Canada. It could be a COVID sale going on. The guys I called aren't known for sales and Stihl sticks pretty close to MSRP unless it's a model wide sale. They knock $$$ off chains etc better never saws, to my knowledge. Yeah - I have a logosol F2+ setup so the 24" I would use on that as well as felling. I may trade in my 660, so I would need the smaller bar. But if I do not get what I want for it, I'll just keep it. I hear you though and thanks. I will ask about adding the 47" bar as the set and then maybe get a 24" somewhere else or just ask them to quote me just the 24". It's hard to imagine it would be cheaper just by switching the way I buy the bars, but a great idea to test out. Thanks again. I agree the 41" is not a great option as I'm not gaining much on my current setup. The 60" just seems way overkill for what I do.

Cheers Peter.

ehp · June 02, 2020, 09:57:52 PM

You will be very surprised, buying the complete saw as a package is cheaper for sure

pshupe · June 05, 2020, 02:46:38 PM

Quote from: ehp on June 02, 2020, 07:43:31 AM
If your in Canada that's not a bad price , not great but not bad . 24 inch bar is not much good to you thou as your 36 inch setup with the 660 if running 3/8 chain would be better . The 47 inch setup is a real bar so ask for the price of saw with that setup, the bar price should go down as its a set. The 41 inch is not as good of bar as the 47 inch

Thanks for the tip. I just called another dealer, closer to my Dad's place, and he quoted me Can$2049 for the MS 880 and 47" Duromax bar. Now I think that bar is a hard nose bar. I expect to use an auxillary oiler so I think this should be good. Can I get some advice on the Duromax vs the Rollomatic? This seems like a very good price considering the other saw was Can$1999 with a 24" bar. He also quoted me Can$138 for the 24" bar. Any tips or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Regards Peter.

lxskllr · June 05, 2020, 02:54:43 PM

A hard nose will add more friction to the system. I don't know what that means in practical terms for milling, but my preference would be a sprocket nose.

pshupe · June 05, 2020, 04:01:03 PM

Quote from: lxskllr on June 05, 2020, 02:54:43 PM
A hard nose will add more friction to the system. I don't know what that means in practical terms for milling, but my preference would be a sprocket nose.

Thanks. I'm hoping with a combination of factors that it will be fine. Those factors would be adding an auxillary oiler at the tip of the saw and the fact that the saw chain may not have to be as tight in an alaskan sawmill setup as it would be in a hand operated saw. I may be wrong on the second point but feel pretty confident about the first. ;D

Any other thoughts? Has anyone used a hard nose and then went to a sprocket and would like to share their experience? Thanks again.

Regards Peter.

sawguy21 · June 05, 2020, 04:12:10 PM

When I started in the industry hard nose were the norm. Then saws got lighter and faster, sprocket nose became popular as hard nose simply wasn't practical at 11,000 rpm plus. If you have ever seen a chain come off at that speed you would understand. Heat was also a major issue. Hard nose still has its place. We sold saws to a company doing cleanup and salvage in the Fraser river, sprocket tips wouldn't live in that environment. Bars and saws didn't last long either.

ehp · June 05, 2020, 05:47:58 PM

Its just me but if Im using a saw for milling or anything other than cutting in real dirt I will be using roller . I have not used a hard nose bar is quite a while and have no plans on it either .

Greenhighlander · June 05, 2020, 05:58:14 PM

Quote from: pshupe on June 05, 2020, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: ehp on June 02, 2020, 07:43:31 AM
If your in Canada that's not a bad price , not great but not bad . 24 inch bar is not much good to you thou as your 36 inch setup with the 660 if running 3/8 chain would be better . The 47 inch setup is a real bar so ask for the price of saw with that setup, the bar price should go down as its a set. The 41 inch is not as good of bar as the 47 inch
Thanks for the tip. I just called another dealer, closer to my Dad's place, and he quoted me Can$2049 for the MS 880 and 47" Duromax bar. Now I think that bar is a hard nose bar. I expect to use an auxillary oiler so I think this should be good. Can I get some advice on the Duromax vs the Rollomatic? This seems like a very good price considering the other saw was Can$1999 with a 24" bar. He also quoted me Can$138 for the 24" bar. Any tips or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Regards Peter.

I recently purchased a 395 xp with a sprocket 28" bar for $1499+ tax, cad. I paid $2081.39 for that saw and 28" bar, a 24" sprocket tip bar, 2 x 24" husky chains, and the thickest Husky safety chaps. The 24" bar was $89.99.
I am using a different style csm then you but I would still recommend a sprocket tip bar. From what I understand unless you are cutting the dirtiest of dirty wood, the solid bars offer no advantage.

pshupe · June 06, 2020, 07:02:41 AM

Thanks Everyone. It seems there is no reason to stick with the hard nose. I'll call the guys back and get them to quote for the Rollomatic bar. Not sure why they even offer that bar if it seems more like a specialty item for stump or dirty conditions work?? Maybe it is slightly cheaper, or maybe much cheaper? I'll find out. From what I have read on some of the site I have looked up there shouldn't be much of a price difference but I will find out.

I appreciate all the knowledge here.

Anyone have any comments on an auxillary oiler? Should I drill the bar or just drip on the end? I'm leaning toward not drilling. One reason would be I'd have to drill both sides so I can flip the bar back and forth. I'm not sure it is worth it vs just setting up a line to drip on the leading edge of the nose. Thoughts? Thanks again.

Cheers Peter.

lxskllr · June 06, 2020, 07:19:34 AM

I just drip it on the end. You want to favor the return side so it doesn't get flung off the nose, but with all the shaking, it seems to get distributed pretty well.

pshupe · June 06, 2020, 03:14:30 PM

Thanks. That is one of the reasons I like the idea of drilling the bar and letting the oil drip into the slot. But I have questions about whether you should drill both sides then for when you flip the bar around? My thoughts are the most important places to oil is where the chain is tight in the bar. Obviously where there is contact with the wood, which should be oiled with the normal bar oiler. Then at the bar end where the chain tightness causes friction around the tip. I do not think I should be too concerned with lubricating the non-cutting side of the bar as there is no added pressure there hence less friction.

Cheers Peter.

lxskllr · June 06, 2020, 05:24:10 PM

The normal oiler oils the top of the bar, and it gets carried around to the bottom. The auxillary oiler is just to add extra oil that gets consumed by long bars and cuts. The chain really shouldn't have tight spots anywhere aside from where it's pressed into the wood during the cut.

Drilling the bar, and mounting a hose should theoretically get the oil where it needs to be better than a drip, but that's assuming it'll maintain good flow with only a gravity feed, since it isn't being pumped as it is from the saw itself. You could add a pump, but that's starting to get pretty complicated for what's supposed to be a simple system :shrugs:

Real1shepherd · June 06, 2020, 06:16:29 PM

Cannon....bar none(pun intended). Oregon bars have gotten soft over the yrs with pros. The people @Oregon know it too and don't seem to care.

There's a Euro bar company too that's trying to compete with Cannon....they tried to get me to buy one of their 40" plus bars. I don't remember the name but delivered, they were about the same price as Cannon....so I saw no reason to switch.

Absolutely NO on hardnose bars of that length.....I don't even know where you would find them? Even if you could find one, after you get some wear on the tip, you'd have to toss versus just replacing the sprocket tip.

I started with General bars which were made in OR and they were fantastic. Then I switched over to Oregon because of the price. Eventually I wanted the best and switched again to Cannon.

As was said, hardnose bars are not intended for high rpm use and extended use in long bars.

I have no experience milling, but would postulate that any way you can get more oil onto those cutters would be a good thing.

Kevin

pshupe · June 08, 2020, 10:48:58 PM

Talked to a couple of local Stihl dealers and checked websites and Stihl does not make a sprocket nose bar over 41". The 47" with the saw is quite inexpensive, like +$50 over a 24", which is less than $140. I'll give it a go and drill top and bottom and put in oil injector bolts for bar operations on each side. That should keep it well lubricated.

Any recommendations on an inexpensive lubricant? What about Canola oil? Other vegetable based products? If I can I would like to be environmentally friendly. Thanks for any tips.

Cheers Peter.

lxskllr · June 09, 2020, 05:13:25 AM

I use canola.

Weekend_Sawyer · June 09, 2020, 06:35:30 AM

I'm running a 50" cannon on my MS661 Alaskan rig.
It's a roller tip bar the only complaint is that you can't clamp the mill over the roller. It squeezes the chain slot so that you can't turn the chain by hand so I have to clamp behind the roller loosing 3" of bar length.

I rigged my oilier to drip on the tip if the bar. It works fine.

I got my bar from Madsens in Washington state.

Jon