I have a PJ 32 foot gooseneck trailer. it hauls my 270C track loader, and either firewood or millable logs to home. I have used oak boards custom made to fit the stake pockets, and have twice snapped them off. the pockets are oversized for standard sized lumber and or steel. I feel it is time to step it up (safety) and make a steel version. I do like the idea of being able to pull them out, and change the space and location for different applications, ect. I can get standard rectangular tubing and add to the base to make it fit. do not want it so tight I have to fight with it to get them out to move. I am sure it would be stronger to connect the two sides together with a bottom support, that would also elevate the logs off the deck. makes it easier to get under them with forks or chain. also protects the trailer floor. Of course then the unit would be heavier and less able to adapt the opposite sides to accommodate various lengths. My BIL works for a flat top bale bed manufacture, and can get what ever steel I decide to use. so I can build up 1.5 x 3 inch tubing. what wall thickness. and I want it to not bend and be beat up to quickly. I have 4 x 4 oak that lays on the floor to support the logs.
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You are lucky that the wood stakes were the only things to fail. You would be better off making bunks that pin to the floor and trailer frame, steel stakes are going to bend or tear out the pockets. They can be positioned wherever you want them and as you say provide clearance for the forks. Go heavier than you think you need, you won't regret it.
trailer rated at 24k, and weighs 6k. skid loader is 9k. only leaves 9k for logs. and yes, my hope is to not tear up the trailer. I like stuff used but otherwise looking good.
that is why I thought I might link pairs with a floor cross piece so the stress of flexing out could be applies to a triangular brace at the outside areas, and the weight of the wood applied down on the cross piece. I guess if they end up heavy, I can well a d ring or something and lift them to move or remove with the trackloader.
I have hauled logs with both a 24 ft gooseneck flatbed and a semi trailer flatbed. Both setups used bunks that fit in the stake pockets which are required if you haul into any commercial mill as the cross bed base elevates the logs to enable forks or a grapple to get under the logs to lift them off the bed without too much damage. The set I used on the gooseneck I made myself and the semi flatbed ones I had made by a welding shop. Both have stakes that fit into the stake pockets on the trailer.
Check out this web site for ideas on commercially available cross bed supports as well as removable aluminum stakes. http://greatlakesmfg.com/alumalogffb.html (http://greatlakesmfg.com/alumalogffb.html)
I can get you more information later on size of steel parts as I must do other thing right now. But recognize the steel ones are very heavy and difficult to remove from the stake pockets but wood only in the stake pockets is an absolute hazard.
Full spread steel bunks are so heavy you cant move them without help or a machine.
Get some heavy wall 3x3 square tube and some 3" C channel to make boxes out of that will hold the 3x3 standards, or if you can, find the appropriate sized telescoping receivers to insert the 3x3 standards inm
Cut squares of the outermost deck board out so that these C channel boxes are welded to the inboard face of your outermost rail.. On the opposite side of the rubrail. Weld angle iron stubs to the boxes just below the wood so that the planking still sits on a ledge and is full strength. These boxes that you build can be as tall as you want and tie into the main frame rails so they are multitudes stronger than pocket stakes or drop in bunks. Believe it or not a rub rail doesnt have a very high load rating and its why coil haulers anchor to chain popups through the deck.. Because theyre rating is higher and satisfies DOT regs.
These standards i propose are somewhat common for dedicated flatbed pipe and pole haulers. They will drop into your pocket when you want them or pull right out and stow in a dunnage box when you dont. Just cut some 4x4 dunnage to lay loose on the deck for keeping fork space and stow that in a side hung box as well. Youll have the best of both worlds and wont have to lift all the way up over a bunk for every single log. You can just drop in the far side and start loading then add the near side stadards as the deck fills up.
Some ideas here:
GREAT LAKES MANUFACTURING, INC. (http://www.greatlakesmfg.com)
Alum-a-log
great pictures and descriptions. the wood stakes I have been using, are to keep the logs on during loeading, and then of course they are all strapped sown. I have broke them twice, and if someone trusted them too much and stood in the wrong spot at that moment, not good. always trying to learn more. thanks!
If you dont wanna mod the trailer you can get by like this. These are my 8ft pipe stakes made from 3" channel. But its important that mid way up you start a new course by laying fairly level dunnage and a pair of chains and binders to cinch the stakes together.. And it has to be before they flare out. A bit of a pain with logs since the diameters arent uniform.
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Mike, I see those and think how great it would be to mill a chain hole and slot about every 24" the full length of that. then you can just stick the chain through the hole and hook it in the slot. Use a chain binder to pull them tight if you need to. Otherwise when you drop a log on the chain it will self tighten.
I've hauled many million pounds of logs and lumber in my PJ Gooseneck setup, for several years, maybe 400 miles a week on a DOT inspected truck and trailer. This is a very safe and extremely strong setup, with 4 inch heavy wall tubing for bunks, and removable side supports for hauling packs of lumber. The bunks slip on heavy stubs. The whole thing sits in the stakes pockets and can removed if desired. When hauling lumber, just slip the bunks off the studs and leave the main assembly on the trailer to allow forklifts to get their forks under the pallet.
I have many pictures with measurements in my galley, and several people have reproduced this design with success.
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5893 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5893)
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The side supports slip over stubs.
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The studs are through welded and inset Inyo the 4x4, it is not just fillet welded to the top. In order for the stud to come off, it would literally have to rip itself through the steel square tubing.
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One thing I would add are some knives on the bunks to help with the logs sliding under an extreme braking situation.
Yes indeed. Slick simple strong setup 👍👍👍
Good looking setup yellowhammer.
@YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488)
do you lift them with skid steer? do you leave them in place most of the time? This gives me a good starting point with lots of great ideas from everyone. no need to find the flaws in my design the "hard way". already time and experience tested ideas. just what I was looking for.
Give Great Lakes a long look, my log trucker just had that setup put on his truck. Said it lightened it up enough to get another 800ft on.
I too have done this but have taken a slightly different tact. In my instance I welded sleeves of square tubing directly onto the sides of my main frame rails, and the log bolsters plug into them.
In the photo below, we fabricated an upper support that spans between the two outer sides of the removable log bolster. This allows me to transport logs that are longer than the trailer by setting one end up on top of the gooseneck tongue, and the other end on the upper support on the log bolster.
The main tubing is 4" .250 wall. We did all aspects of the fabrication here on the farm. If you look closely in the pic you can see the suitcase MIG in the background and ground lead attached to the bolster. I recall taking this pic right after I welded the pins on the bottom of the bolster that engage the tubing inserts in the deck.
If you look closely at the log bolster you can see where it plugs into the sleeves that are flush to the trailer deck.
My setup is over-built for a gooseneck, but I prefer the extra safety margin. That's why I utilized the frame mounting system instead of the perimeter.
The bottom pic is of me transporting a 60' log with this setup (borrowing my wife's F450 at the time!)
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WOW! looks well built. limit on my mill is 21 feet so I will not be tempted. :D
Ed they look great. any idea of the cost? the shipping and all may add up. as a hobby guy that all factors in. I haul logs about once a month. my tree guys drop them off. but it only take one bad incident to make it all not worth it. got to be safe.
Now that's a tree!!
Yellowhammers setup is simple and effective. I like that. I have a 5x8 utility trailer with sides. I should make something like what yellowhammer has and maybe make unloading the trailer a little easier.
i am already thinking I might add a D shaped handle or two to the uprights. easier to move and remove, and will not roll off the trailer. maybe even make a way to stow them using the handles. do you have lift attachments to the bases.
Doc, the ones I have are not as strong as YH's or SC's but they fit in the back of my pickup, work on my bumper pull and GN trailers and were built out of scrap 3" channel and 2" pipe. I drilled holes and welded 5/8" nuts on some of them so that a 5/8" bolt can be screwed in to keep them from bouncing out (speed bumps). When they get tweaked one way, I just install them facing the other way the next time. I did have one channel get bent to 90°- it was no match for a 30,000 pound loader.
I use landscape timbers or broken 4x4's under the logs and try to put them on top of the trailer's crossmembers. This really saves wear and tear on the trailer deck.
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Sometimes the tractor rides on the back and the logs go up front. I like having the single, removeable uprights for when I am unloading logs that are heavier than the Kubota likes to lift or if the ground is not level.
I love that!
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Quote from: Satamax on June 28, 2020, 01:32:21 PM
I love that!
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No side post bending with that angle. Now if it was pinned so you could take the sides off would be nice 🤔. Yellowhammers setup is slick. But a angled upright pinned brace that removes with the upright would eliminate most upright bending
Quote from: Walnut Beast on June 28, 2020, 01:54:23 PM
Quote from: Satamax on June 28, 2020, 01:32:21 PM
I love that!
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No side post bending with that angle. Now if it was pinned so you could take the sides off would be nice 🤔. Yellowhammers setup is slick. But a angled upright pinned brace that removes with the upright would eliminate most upright bending
I don't have a picture but the angle on the removeable uprights can be made from chain to keep them from spreading and the weight of the logs pulls them in rather than spreading. Many of the stave haulers use them to haul stave logs to the mill and sawn staves back to a cooperage. They use channel sized to fit the stake pockets. Keep it simple. Its not like you are going to load 13'6" high like a tandem log truck. All you need is to keep the logs from rolling off until you get them strapped down and from rolling off when you are unstrapping. You hang one with a big loader all you have to do is turn the crook inside.
The problem with little stakes is when they hold 2 tiers and you go for a 3rd, just resting the logs ontop in the notches of other logs. Then one rolls away from you and over off the far side onto the ground.. Or fender.. Or a mailbox or car or dog or person. Dont take it for granted that your containment will contain a stick of timber.
Stavebuyer made a great point on using chain👍. Note (Yellowhammer used round tubing on the side supports) It has a higher strength than comparable square tubing
Walnut Beast is correct, I used round cold rolled for the stubs and uprights. Heavy wall round tubing is best, especially for systems that slide inside each other, like sleeves. It also increases the load bearing capacity, or the shear capacity, of the bunk pocket joints, where the stubs are welded in.
The bunks themselves with the studs stay in the trailer year round, unless I trade trailers. This particular setup has been used on two PJ trailers, with no modifications between the two.
The vertical posts slip on and off easily by hand, although a handle might be handy.
The setup basically leaves the trailer open, even with the bunks installed. I carry 4 packs of wood every week to get planed, and I don't want to take the bunks themselves off, only the uprights.
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If desired the bunks are easy to remove, simply lift up one side from the stake pocket, lift the other side from the stake pocket, rotate the assembly 90° and then simply slide it off the trailer no the ground.
I have tried wood, and they broke. I have tried 4 inch steel channel, and it bent. I have been using these for years, and still perfect. Logs aren't loaded gently, knuckle booms and loaders are not delicate, and that's what's used, at several places to load me.
In order to meet DOT Log Truck regulations, logs must be loaded side to side, tightly packed, and must bear on themselves and the side supports. This prevents sliding, and the strength of the uprights must be stronger than the weight of the logs. These are built that strong. The uprights will not break under the full weight of the logs, and not delicate loader operators have almost flipped the trailer trying side push a log between the uprights that wouldn't fit. If a log is jacked up when loading, the loader can't just jam them down, because the sides won't flex, it's that strong.
There is another added benefit in that when mega logs are loaded and I don't have the lifting capacity to dead lift them over the uprights, I can simply remove the uprights from one side, and roll the off the side of the trailer by pushing it.
These were unloaded by rolling off with the side supports removed.
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On a normal load, I just deadlift over the uprights. To give you an idea of how much this gets used, just two weeks ago I transported a full trailer load of lumber to a neighboring town, with the uprights removed, came back home, slid the side posts on, and trucked 4 full capacity loads of logs, by 1300. That's a lot of hauling and the bunks make it possible. I go over scales, so I know when I'm at capacity. This rig gets used hard.
I use standard transport DOT rated and certified strap winches, since I get DOT inspected, like used on any semi truck, welded to the trailer frame. They are spaced every 4 feet for load securing requirements, and I have to replace the straps about every two years.
The other big advantage of this setup is that it distributes the weight of load across the trailer I beams, directly to the bed frame.
Quote from: mike_belben on June 28, 2020, 04:15:57 PM
The problem with little stakes is when they hold 2 tiers and you go for a 3rd, just resting the logs ontop in the notches of other logs. Then one rolls away from you and over off the far side onto the ground.. Or fender.. Or a mailbox or car or dog or person. Dont take it for granted that your containment will contain a stick of timber.
Its even worse when your loading one log extra at 13'6" and have roll one off. Been there done that. Just as dead rolling one over the top of 6x6 tubing at 13' as over top of 1.5"x3" channel at 5'. Probably deader and harder to get away from the higher load which is all that happens when you raise the height of bolsters.
The company using the short stakes with chains hauls around 50 million bf/ft a year mostly interstate and crosses no less than 20 state lines. Seems to work ok for them.
If your pulling a gooseneck with a CTL on it and feel the need to go more than 2 logs high then wondering if the standard will keep your log from rolling off probably is not your biggest worry.
Boys i dont mean to be a stickler about it and yellowhammer i think your bunks are excellent... I dont doubt them a bit. But the metal nerd in me is compelled to correct the statement that round tube is "stronger" than square.
Look up modulus of elasticity and moment of inertia calcs for any structural material you want. Size and wall thickness being equal, square tube is more rigid than round. That is to say a HREW 3x3x.250 square tube has less deflection over the same unsupported span as a 3" x .250 wall round tube.
A round tube however has much higher torsional load bearing properties, hence its superiority is driveshafting and power transmission. You can also use the same calculations to consider the effect of thicker wall vs larger diameter in order to balance strength to weight ratio as well as cost. Hint.. Big diameter thin wall is typically stronger and sometimes lighter than small diameter heavy wall. One should use the largest diameter they can fit, and the minimum wall thickness that prevents localized denting.
Square standards are stronger than rounds. But for fabrication purposes, they have yet to invent the square hole saw and plasma cutters cost a lot more than drill presses!
Great thread, Doc my hats off to you for starting it, and Yellowhammer same to you for taking the time to document everything on your trailer. I have been using white oak and a couple of metal standards I found on the road when working for Dot. I plan on copying your design. Banjo
When setting the heights of the bunks, and having the advantage of being able to go over truck weigh scales, I kept adjusting bunk height until the log's centerline doesn't go over the top of the standards with a full but not overweight load.
After awhile, I can pretty easily eyeball judge a full but not overweight load by where the logs sit relative to the top of the uprights. I've also talked to more than one state trooper who says they make a decision to pull over a loaded truck based on how high the logs are stacked, and if any have a centerline above the top of the side support. So being able to adjust and optimize the height of the supports with a cutoff saw helps get the load weight right, helps keeps the Trooper off my bumper, and also helps me resist the temptation to overload.
Also, I, like many use standard "truck friendly" 42 inch wide pallets, in order to get two packs side by side on a flat bed without violating the rub rail space. Unlike 48 inch wide packs loaded side by side, which completely take up an 8 foot bed and forces the tie down straps to be routed on the outside of the rub rails, which is a DOT law violation. Rub rails are put on trailers so that if there is a sideswipe accident where the vehicle or object slides down the length and side of the trailer, (been there) then it can't cut the tie down straps and lose the load. With the straps protected by the rub rails, then the straps will not get cut. So always run the straps inside the rub rails, that's why they were put there.
All these are little things, but all are incorporated in the trailer design and intended to keep me from getting any more "knee knocker" trucking tickets.
Quote from: mike_belben on June 28, 2020, 07:36:10 PM
Boys i dont mean to be a stickler about it and yellowhammer i think your bunks are excellent... I dont doubt them a bit. But the metal nerd in me is compelled to correct the statement that round tube is "stronger" than square.
Look up modulus of elasticity and moment of inertia calcs for any structural material you want. Size and wall thickness being equal, square tube is more rigid than round. That is to say a HREW 3x3x.250 square tube has less deflection over the same unsupported span as a 3" x .250 wall round tube.
A round tube however has much higher torsional load bearing properties, hence its superiority is driveshafting and power transmission. You can also use the same calculations to consider the effect of thicker wall vs larger diameter in order to balance strength to weight ratio as well as cost. Hint.. Big diameter thin wall is typically stronger and sometimes lighter than small diameter heavy wall. One should use the largest diameter they can fit, and the minimum wall thickness that prevents localized denting.
Square standards are stronger than rounds. But for fabrication purposes, they have yet to invent the square hole saw and plasma cutters cost a lot more than drill presses!
Some good insight Mike. But from my understanding round is pound for pound stronger than square
And while we are busy spending Docs fabrication budget the first modification I would do to any vehicle hauling logs is build a substantial headache rack.
Objects at rest tend to stay at rest; while objects in motion tend to stay in motion.
Only in torsion loads like a driveshaft. strictly by the pound youd have to be comparing a 6" exhaust pipe vs a 1" square 3/16 tube or something like that for round to be "stronger" than sq. Hillbillies make standards out of water pipe because thats what they got. Pitts makes them out of square because thats whats strongest at any cost.
If looking at same diameter and wall thickness [measuring the square across the flats] the square will be more rigid and the round will be lighter, naturally since a narrower coil was fed into the drawing die to make round tubes.
Diamond oriented square tubing is weaker also, you wouldnt want to turn standards or crossmembers 45 degrees, its stronger along the flats.
Easiest way to eyeball it is put then both on cinder blocks and step on em.
A piece of 6" exhaust pipe welded front to back down the center of a GN trailer will make a great torque tube and stop it from winding up. But its not a very good log standard. A 3" C channel is an excellent crossmember, a fair stake, and a horrible torque tube.
Just have to utilize each piece of metal to use its strength and avoid its weakness.
for instance, angle iron would be the worlds worst torsion bar but Lord knows how crabby i get when i run out of it!
:D
Here's a closeup of the joint. Since there is no way way to gusset the stud and also allow the side post sleeve to slide on and off, its important to assemble it as a submerged joint, as I mentioned earlier, and to cut a hole in the top of the square tubing in order to slide the round stock down into it and weld the bottom of the stud to the inside bottom of the square tubing, and even up the side. Then passes are made to the top of the square tubing and there is no way for the welds to fail and the side posts to come off. The metal would have to be ripped out of the pocket, weld or no weld. At that point, set the assembly on the trailer, jig the down channel into the rub rail and final weld them.
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Welding on the truckers winches, or even a winch slide rail, is also much the best way to strap loads. These are extremely strong, much more so than any ratchet strap, and also much faster to use. I prefer the weld on winches, they are so strong that I had a car head one sideswipe me a few years ago, and the multiple winches under the trailer frame cut through the car like chainsaw teeth, literally filleting it like a fish, the entire side of the car laying on the ground, and the winches were not even damaged.
There is a trick when welding winches, or anything else, on a tube trailer frame, especially since the trailer wiring is run in the same piece of metal. If not careful when welding big, multi pass welds on a trailer frame, they will melt the trailer light wiring that is run inside the tubing. So park the trailer slightly downhill, and run a garden hose into the forward end of the trailer frame (pop out the 2" round marker lights to get access to the inside of the tubing) and the water will run 25 feet inside the tube and exit out near the tail of the trailer. The running water will keep the metal cool enough not melt the wiring and since there is no spillage on the ground, there is no chance of standing in a puddle of water when welding.
I have ratchet straps. I originally got the J hooks, looks like the flat bar type is better for this type of rail. the integrated winch straps look nice. do you have a source for these. or under frame pics of the attachment. if you are in the area, can you just drop your trailer off so I can look at it? :D :D :D thanks for all the info. any and all tips and tidbits are welcome!
Quote from: YellowHammer on June 29, 2020, 07:40:23 AM
Here's a closeup of the joint. Since there is no way way to gusset the stud and also allow the side post sleeve to slide on and off, its important to assemble it as a submerged joint, as I mentioned earlier, and to cut a hole in the top of the square tubing in order to slide the round stock down into it and weld the bottom of the stud to the inside bottom of the square tubing, and even up the side. Then passes are made to the top of the square tubing and there is no way for the welds to fail and the side posts to come off. The metal would have to be ripped out of the pocket, weld or no weld. At that point, set the assembly on the trailer, jig the down channel into the rub rail and final weld them.
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Welding on the truckers winches, or even a winch slide rail, is also much the best way to strap loads. These are extremely strong, much more so than any ratchet strap, and also much faster to use. I prefer the weld on winches, they are so strong that I had a car head one sideswipe me a few years ago, and the multiple winches under the trailer frame cut through the car like chainsaw teeth, literally filleting it like a fish, the entire side of the car laying on the ground, and the winches were not even damaged.
There is a trick when welding winches, or anything else, on a tube trailer frame, especially since the trailer wiring is run in the same piece of metal. If not careful when welding big, multi pass welds on a trailer frame, they will melt the trailer light wiring that is run inside the tubing. So park the trailer slightly downhill, and run a garden hose into the forward end of the trailer frame (pop out the 2" round marker lights to get access to the inside of the tubing) and the water will run 25 feet inside the tube and exit out near the tail of the trailer. The running water will keep the metal cool enough not melt the wiring and since there is no spillage on the ground, there is no chance of standing in a puddle of water when welding.
It doesn't get much better than YellowHammers system........
I would suggest check with the trailer manufacturers design spec.s for load securement, they should say where you can or cannot cut or weld, mount a winch, and where to hook a strap to. Also check with a good commercial semi trailer repair / fab shop. They would know what it would take to mount winches, and most importantly to pass DOT inspection. Either way you'll need a good structural welder for that work.
X2 on the headache rack is a good idea for hauling tall stacks of logs. Also they can stop forward movement for stacks of lumber, as boards in center of a pack can slide out in a "brake check".
I've always meant to build something better but what I have keeps working so I keep using it. Part of the reason is that I don't haul logs very often and my trailer is only rated at 14k so they're generally not piled very deep. And I'm usually picking up good sized hardwood logs so oftentimes a single layer is about all I want to handle. An average haul for me would be a couple miles. Ten miles would be a long haul. This is Iowa so we don't have grades or twists in the road.
What I use is some pretty heavy 3" C channel that drops into the stake pockets. I welded a nut to them to act as a stop so they can't slide in too far. They only stick up about 22" above the bed if I remember right so they only contact the first layer of logs. The second layer, if there is one, sits in the cracks of the first layer and it all gets held down with heavy ratchet straps.
I figured the short height would help protect the trailer by limiting leverage and would also keep me from being tempted to load too high. So far both of those have worked out. A couple times I've rolled big logs a little too hard when loading and a couple of the C channels have a slight bend in them but no damage to the trailer.
I pull them out before unloading logs with the skidloader.
Alan
PJ trailers, like the one Doc and I have, is a very good brand, and Resonators advice is spot on. I actually did that, and saw how my certified PJ Trailer dealer mounted the weld on winches, and that is where I bought my first set of winches, as well as the straps. That's also where I learned the trick of not burning the wires. Now I get my straps from Amazon.
If buying a new PJ, they offer sliding winches from the factory, and they also offer a totally protected winch hook bar, which is a piece of flat stock, run under the entire length of the trailer, where the winch hooks can attach, completely protected buy the trailer. Pretty cool, but my trailer doesn't have one.
Another big factor in the design of this system is that nothing is done to alter the structural integrity of the trailer, because the bunks are removable and no modifications are made to the trailer itself. So nothing is done to impact the load ratings or manufacturer certifications of the trailer. Or equally important, its resale value.
Also, a very good (maybe better) alternative to the weld winches are the ones that slide in a structural track, under the trailer. This way, the winches can be slid sideways to any location on the trailer. Both types have the same load rating, although I felt the weld on winches were inherently stronger.
All modifications, including the construction of the bunks, can probably be done by any local PJ dealer, or any good trailer dealer, for that matter.
Safety was my number one goal with this system, as I had just experienced a less than pleasant and somewhat expensive run in with the State DOT Troopers, and was not going to make that expensive mistake twice.
Here is one link of many (google "bottom mount weld on 4" web winch") that supply the 4" weld on winches, the 4" winch straps, as well as the winch bar, used to tighten them.
Storable Weld-On Truck Tie Down Winch [TW410] | US Cargo Control (https://www.uscargocontrol.com/Storable-Weld-On-Truck-Tie-Down-Winch)
Here are the sliding ones,
Storable Sliding Truck Tie Down Winch [TW420] | US Cargo Control (https://www.uscargocontrol.com/Storable-Sliding-Truck-Tie-Down-Winch)
PJ offers the winches, but they are significantly more expensive.
Doc, I'll get some pictures this evening.
Picture of weld on winch.
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Quote from: mike_belben on June 28, 2020, 07:36:10 PM
Boys i dont mean to be a stickler about it and yellowhammer i think your bunks are excellent... I dont doubt them a bit. But the metal nerd in me is compelled to correct the statement that round tube is "stronger" than square.
Look up modulus of elasticity and moment of inertia calcs for any structural material you want. Size and wall thickness being equal, square tube is more rigid than round. That is to say a HREW 3x3x.250 square tube has less deflection over the same unsupported span as a 3" x .250 wall round tube.
A round tube however has much higher torsional load bearing properties, hence its superiority is driveshafting and power transmission. You can also use the same calculations to consider the effect of thicker wall vs larger diameter in order to balance strength to weight ratio as well as cost. Hint.. Big diameter thin wall is typically stronger and sometimes lighter than small diameter heavy wall. One should use the largest diameter they can fit, and the minimum wall thickness that prevents localized denting.
Square standards are stronger than rounds. But for fabrication purposes, they have yet to invent the square hole saw and plasma cutters cost a lot more than drill presses!
gotta agree with him. up here in the 60's everyone used round stakes. the 70's almost all were square. i trucked wood every day for 20 yrs. the bodies i built used 3\8" wall 4x4. and to move the stakes drill a hole in it and use a pulp hook. now days everyone has the deloupe stakes and pockets
How do you guys get away with using winch's and straps? Why not use at least two cable wrappers they'll be a lot less likely to top during a hard braking event.
Since its a dual purpose setup, and I haul lots of expensive and finished lumber, (packs of $200 to $300 per board, sometimes) as well as logs, the cables would dig in and damage the corners of the the lumber packs badly. Straps cause much less damage to the lumber.
Loggers here haul with wires or straps, so I went with straps. DOT allows both, as long as the number used and load rating are sufficient. I do carry a set of transport chains and binders as backup if a think a log load needs it.
The standard Deloupe setup is super nice, but way overkill for a gooseneck, and I didn't like how they were designed to maximize the width if the load of logs and get them all the way out to the edge of the trailer, which is what a professional logger would want to maximize space and carrying capacity, but I knew I was weight capacity limited and also I thought the crossmemebers were too high for a gooseneck. So I asked a couple companies to build me some custom ones with lower uprights that fit inside the rub rail, and wouldn't have to be permanently attached to the trailer as these are generally welded or bolted to the trailer, which I didn't want to do. I also wanted the log load narrower, pulled inside the trailer footprint, to maximize the stability of the gooseneck, and to be able to use the rub rails. I don't remember the prices I was quoted, but it was wow expensive. So I just built my own version.
@YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488)
Just because you can use nylon doesn't mean you should. It's more likely to slip on you then a wire that goes all the way around the load and meets up to a chain binder. Up here even on the hay rack trailers the straps are illegal because of that exact reason they can have something slip as well they don't tighten the load to itself.
These are DOT legal, rated and annually inspected truckers straps and winches, and if I had any issues, I would swap them out immediately. I'm not sure what you mean by not pulling a load together, that's one thing they do well, they pull my packs of lumber and logs tightly together, just as on any semi truck flatbed lumber hauler, so they won't move against each other. That's very important for a secure load. I don't know of any lumber haulers who use wire, at least in this part of the country. All use web straps and winches.
I'm using a standard 32" trucker winch bar to tighten the winches, I'm not using "hay hauler" ratchet straps from Tractor Supply.
Quote from: Skeans1 on June 30, 2020, 08:09:17 AM
How do you guys get away with using winch's and straps?
Nothing illegal about it. Section 3.1.2 only specs securements have a min WLL of 4000lbs.
Logs in a bunk need 1/6th of the total load WLL but not in a bunk requires the standard 1/2 of the load.
The only reason for cable on log trailers is that everyone would need rotator cuffs after trying to throw full lengths of 5/16 grade 70s. I doubt many people can do it at all.
Youd be a fool to use anything but strap to secure lumber.
Pallet rack screens with the braces knocked off and bent into L shapes makes a perfect bulkhead fence to keep individual sticks of lumber from poking forward. I used them for steel and brick loads.
got material. I spoke with the great lakes guy, and he was great, but never got the quote, and with shipping would have been above my self imposed hobby budget. local fab shop quoted materials and labor at about 500 each, so I paused. now the steel price is up 30%,so I got the steel and will fab them myself.
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Looks like you've got a good start on material. Are you planning to MIG or stick weld it together?
Is that black box in the background the base of a surgical table? It reminds me of the ones in my wife's mobile veterinary hospitals, except hers are made from unpainted stainless steel.
it is a plate compacter on the pallet, with a wood stove behind it, a pallet jack to the right, and a 55 gallon poly trash can to the left. we hardly ever do surgery outside.! :D
Great 🙄. Steel is up 30 % 😡
Nope. The steel is unchanged.. Its the money watered down 30%.
The same amount of steel will still buy the same amount of lumber or ammo or bobcats. But all of those real items command more paper money since everyone with a pulse is getting it mailed to them. Stimulus just stimulates inflation.
I will use MIG, Millermatic 250x. my brother is a class A welder, but he is a ways away. I do OK.
You'll do fine. Remember the key is to cut a pocket hole in the top of the square tubing near the end so the stake stubs pass through the top face hole and are attached at the bottom. Then they are welded to the inside bottom face, inside top face, then outside top face. When done like that, Hogzilla couldn't rip them out. Turn the heat up on the Miller and get full penetration with big, fat fillets.
got started, and nearly done. need to cap my 4 foot uprights, and fill in the ends of the 4 inch tubing. add some side support. paint and ready to try them out.
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Looks fantastic Doc 👍. What model of Hyperthem plasma do you have
Are you going to fill in the gap on the side of tubing ?
85 amp, not sure of the model. about 10 y/o. yes the sides will be filled with a side kicker to help them stay upright. I should have gotten a 1.5 x 3.5 channel. it would have covered and still fit my stake pockets. I may make another 2. if I fill my trailer that full of wood, may not be room for the skid steer. 24k trailer, net 18k. multi terrain loader 277c cat about 9k. so 9k left for wood. I guess a couple rows of 8 foot logs, I would have room. I occasionally lift the grapple and put it on top of the logs. 5 foot ramp area. I can lift and carry one of these bunks without the extension by hand. I plan to put lift loops on the 4 foot extensions and the whole bunk. what do you guys think for finish. I use a lot of the professional rust-o-lium (rattle can) gloss black. I could get them powder coated. I have spray equipment, and could do implement paint and primer. trailer is black. any ideas on pin stripe I have seen the paint jars and rollers, as well as the tape. will place reflective tape.
@YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) are those fillets big and fat enough for you? :o :) :D thanks for all the guidance and sharing your ideas and intellectual property!
Those look great! Very nicely done. I painted mine with Rustoleum, but powder coat would be nice.
The first time you use them you will be very happy with how rock solid they are. You won't be breaking them like wooden stakes, that's for sure.
It took a couple tries to find out where they should be placed to get a maximum load load of logs and still have the trailer sit level. So I'd move them back and forward and when I found the sweet spot, I took a can of paint and marked the trailer deck so if I had to remove them, I knew exactly where to place them back. However, I almost never remove them.
I'm going for a long drive empty, to keep them from bouncing, I just throw a winch strap over them to keep them locked down to the bed.
The welds look beautiful doc! smiley_thumbsup
I would use a good tractor brush on paint, then scrapes and scratches could easily be touched up down the road. Check your slip joint fit, and if the paint thickness would affect it.
Get some brush on rustoleum or TSC, add a bit of hardener and spray it. Much, much more durable and looks so much better than rattlecan. Also faster and cheaper.
You do good work Doc. Nice welding!
Looks great Doc and nice beads with that Miller.
The stove base is what reminded me of a surgical table. I figured that it was one that had been taken out of service.
good point. they go on and off easy now, so should have room for paint. I plan to make a steel inverted V on top so I can pull them off if they get stuck. also maybe a D on the body of the bunk to lift with a loader, and or strap down. @scsmith42 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=3296) I do have a few SS stoles with the acme threads that were going to be thrown out. way back, I got an old incubator from the hospital in Hays from the NICU from storage warehouse, and hatched eggs in it! I have a fluid and blanket warmer from Fort Riley, I use to dry/cure finish, kiln dry, and can heat treat at 160. (if project is small enough).
Stay away from powder coat. It's a tough finish, but any nick or scratch is a pathway for moisture to get to the steel underneath, and you will have big blisters of rust underneath the plastic coating. You will have to clean way back to the base metal (sandblast) to have any hope of touch up. Then whatcha gonna use? Did I say I hate powder coat?
I use Rustoleum primer. I like the rusty metal primer on everything and it isn't sinful if that becomes your topcoat, too. If you want a color topcoat, Rustoleum paint is better than Tractor Supply or the other cheap paints, IMHO. Brush it on if you want to.However you apply it (I like to brush it on), it all looks the same goin' down the road.
Just some brain droppings on a Sunday morning.
Take care,
Odie
I keep the rust-o-lium gloss black oversized cans on hand. My BIL works at a plant building truck beds, and he might be able to have it painted for me, with a good implement paint. any color I want as long as it is black. :) then I could touch up with any gloss black. I am leaning towards the high out put gloss spray cans, as my son likes to spray paint, and it would be a good experience for him.
the material is in good shape, on surface rust, should I wipe it with more than just mineral spirits? I have tried the rust converter stuff in the past. or is there some acid wash to use? want a good prep.
I think if you just wipe it down with thinner to remove any oils, you will be OK. Maybe put on a Rustoleum primer coat before you have it sprayed just to add a little extra protection. Up here in the northeast, the salt and chloride use is terrible, and then add in the use of calcium chloride for dust control in the summer, and we wind up with corrosive attack almost all year.
I think the rusty metal primer must have some form of rust converter in it, but if your steel is really clean, their clean metal primer really surprised me where I used it. Your mileage may vary.
If the tube ever gets stuck on the stub, I simply use a small crowbar I keep in my trailer tool box and place it between the bottom edge of the tube and the crosspiece and give it a little push and the tube pops up and loose with no effort. Don't drop the heavy tube down onto the fillets of the stubs or they may wedge. I just slide mine down by hand, until they bottom out.
I painted mine years ago with the black rustoleum, and the places that see no wear are still covered, the places that see wear are shiny. Rustoleum kind of likes a light rust anyway, I'd just make sure there isn't any oil in it and spray it down.
While you are doing the fine welding, it's a simple job to go ahead and weld on some truckers winches onto the frame under the rubrail and you'll have the best rig in the area. The winches are pretty inexpensive and have twice the power of any ratchet strap and are very fast and strong.
Here are some weld on winches:
https://www.uscargocontrol.com/Storable-Weld-On-Truck-Tie-Down-Winch (https://www.uscargocontrol.com/Storable-Weld-On-Truck-Tie-Down-Winch)
Here are some that slide in a welded on track.
https://www.uscargocontrol.com/Storable-Sliding-Truck-Tie-Down-Winch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0MD_BRCTARIsADXoopb1X3gbFbx7XUa_nGimnAvN_mchTxhCoTvZj1DyKtQln4fbP_zPqgsaAh_IEALw_wcB (https://www.uscargocontrol.com/Storable-Sliding-Truck-Tie-Down-Winch?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0MD_BRCTARIsADXoopb1X3gbFbx7XUa_nGimnAvN_mchTxhCoTvZj1DyKtQln4fbP_zPqgsaAh_IEALw_wcB)
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did you fill the rails with water to weld those on? you mentioned it, but not sure if you had to on your PJ? I had on weld with a fat glob that was flat that kept one upright from going down onto the angled weld. I ground it off, but if it is a big problem, I can weld a "stop" on each one. any thought on the cap and grab rings for the uprights?
I like the sliding strap concept. I will go out and stare under my trailer later. thanks. I currently use the 27k 2 inch web straps now.
Yes, it's an old trick when the wires are already run inside a tube that needs to welded. Generally winches are welded into the drivers side so you can see them easily, and the straps are attached to the rub rail on the passenger side to be slightly more protected in a sideswipe wreck.
Some trailers have the wires run down that side, so it's possible to burn them, which takes all the fun out a project. If they are easy to pull back, then tie a string to them and pull them from the weld site. If not, then use water as a coolant. Park the trailer near your welder with a very slight grade, pop a tail light out and slide a garden hose in, turn the water on and it should run the length of the tubing and come out near the front of the trailer. None should be coming out where the welding is taking place and it's important to not weld standing in a puddle of water. It should be dry where you are working. It's also important to not burn through the tubing or you'll get water everywhere, but your welding shows that shouldn't be a problem.
You can also use wet rags to keep the wire cool, but that is messy. Main thing is don't burn the tail light and brake wires when welding on the winches. There may be a better way of doing it, but this is the way I normally do it.
It's important to never weld the side of the winch bracket, only the flat front and back. If the sides are welded to the trailer frame, the sides will pull slightly and cause the winch drum to bind. When attached correctly, the drum should turn very freely.
They are welded so the straps can always be fed between the rub rail and the side on the trailer frame, again, to protect from a sideswipe, which has happened to me. A driver on Zannex sideswiped me in a near head on and her car slid down the entire length of the trailer, totally filleting the side of her car open including cutting her front suspension in half, and there was virtually no damage to my trailer, or her for that matter. That's why the rub rails are there, to protect everything else, and it's important to keep all hardware inboard of them.
DOT says straps cannot be run over the rub rail they have to be run inside it. For the very reason Yellowhammer mentions.
Doc, great job on the fab work. Before you paint it may not be a bad idea to weld a block of something on the bottom so if the tube does get stuck you have a more substantial piece of something to pry off of to lift the tube. The edge of the tube will work but I find if thats all your relying on after a long tedious day where nothing goes right, that will also not go right :)
Quote from: Oliver05262 on January 03, 2021, 09:41:02 AMBrush it on if you want to, but if you do, you can't use the hardener as Mike suggests.
Sure ya can. The rims on my IH were brushed with hardener. So was my dozer. Just faster and more even when sprayed imo. I thin a touch most of the time for that.
Look up $50 paintjob.. Tons of people roll on rustoleum with hardener.
X2 on the hardener for sure. Brush or spray. I've brushed it on and it's fine, although brushing is not the best way to paint your Ferrari. Make small batches when you brush paint with hardener. You don't have a lot of time to mess around.
Mike - does Rustoleum make a hardener for their paint? I'd like to get some of their hardener if they do. I have to stick to known compatible products. TSC sells an implement paint with a companion hardener that's pretty good and reasonably priced. Much cheaper than going to the auto paint pro store and paying the big bucks for the good stuff for such a little job.
Powder coat would be even better. I've always wanted to try sending out stuff like those bunks to see how much it would cost but never have gotten around to it. The powder coat guys do a great job of cleaning and prepping, which is at least half the battle.
Nice build Doc. Good addition to your log hauling department.
I personally wouldn't go mixing in non compatible stuff or you could end up with a mess on your hands. I would sandblast first then the best would be a good epoxy primer and Imron high gloss black. Remember preparation before everything is key and keeping contamination away. Flow equals gloss
Quote from: mike_belben on January 03, 2021, 12:52:28 PM
Quote from: Oliver05262 on January 03, 2021, 09:41:02 AMBrush it on if you want to, but if you do, you can't use the hardener as Mike suggests.
Sure ya can. The rims on my IH were brushed with hardener. So was my dozer. Just faster and more even when sprayed imo. I thin a touch most of the time for that.
Look up $50 paintjob.. Tons of people roll on rustoleum with hardener.
This economy alternative will work fine
Paint? Paint? This thing's built for work. It don't need no stinking paint!
Just hook it to a chain, throw it in the mud, and drag it for a few hundred yards. Then put it back on the trailer and let it get rained on a few times. That'll teach it who's boss and make it look "used hard". :D :D
Good job, Doc. On mine, which are a little different design built with stuff I had lying around, I drilled a hole in the channel a little lower than the stake pocket and welded a 5/8" nut centered over the over sized hole to thread in a bolt to keep the stakes in place. The ones we most often use are singles that go in the stake pockets and we stack on broken 4x4's. Yours are much stronger and better engineered but ours work on all of our trailers and when they get bent a little, we put them in the other direction the next time.
P2SO4 (Ospho) works well to convert rust when preparing to paint.
Quote from: btulloh on January 03, 2021, 01:36:27 PM
Mike - does Rustoleum make a hardener for their paint? I'd like to get some of their hardener if they do. I have to stick to known compatible products. TSC sells an implement paint with a companion hardener that's pretty good and reasonably priced.
Im fairly certain its the TSC hardener that ive put in all of my quickie paintjobs. Rustoleum and cat yellow from the case dealer ironically.
Another paint prep option is a wire cup brush on a grinder, followed by a mineral spirits cleaning. Usually I start with hot water and soap, then give it a final rub down with acetone or mineral spirits.
Personally I prefer my strap winches to be on the passenger side of the trailer. I can see that side just fine in my mirrors, and if I stop on the side of the road to check the strap tightness I prefer to be on the non-traffic side.
Too many folks killed changing a tire on the side of the road.
Quote from: scsmith42 on January 03, 2021, 07:27:26 PM
Personally I prefer my strap winches to be on the passenger side of the trailer. I can see that side just fine in my mirrors, and if I stop on the side of the road to check the strap tightness I prefer to be on the non-traffic side.
Too many folks killed changing a tire on the side of the road.
Smart. A while ago, coming back from an equipment auction, my rear left trailer tire blew out. It SUCKED, changing that on the side of the interstate. Maybe 6 out of 10 semis pulled over into the left lane to give way, and maybe 4 out of 10 cars did likewise; just not a comfortable situation with your ass 3 inches from the lane marker. It prompted me to buy a cordless impact gun to keep on hand for hell like that; if the need arises again, then at least I can get it done faster.
Ive spent many cumulative hours right there on the line the past 5 years. Great way to get killed
update.
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jig to make a V ring to pull the risers off with my crane and chain with a hook, if log is against them or if out of round. need to make my stabilizers that seal up the end, paint, and give them a try.
Good job doc on your "engendering". Now you just have to weld enough fillit into it and everything will be G2G (good to go) 😁
Looks great!
How tall did you make the risers/standards?
I started at 4 feet tall but I was constantly overloading and blowing my weight limits because I use them for a reference. Over time, I would whittle a few inches off the end, until I had their height optimized for a full load, but not overload. So when a loader operator would ask how many logs they could fit on, I'd say "load it until you run out of room" and they basically couldn't stack them so high I was over weight.
Their height also how hard the State Troopers will look at you when you drive by. I was told by a Trooper that the standards and the load should not be higher or taller than the gooseneck, thats one thing they look for.
It's pretty common for me to have such big logs, or so many that I can't deadlift them over the top of standards and they are pressed so tightly that the standards won't come off because the logs are jammed onto them. It's no problem though.
I use the forks and push the logs against the other side standards, but be careful to not flip the trailer. Or I use the forks and roll the topmost logs off the far side, over the standards, and let them plop onto the ground. When you have enough logs off, use the loader and push against the offending jamming log and get a little air space between the log and the standard. Then with the loader stabilizing the load, just pull the standards off and slowly release the logs. Then just unload them over the short stubs. It's real easy and safe.
At one point, I drilled a hole through the lowest part of each piece of channel that goes into the stake pockets and when the thing was fit to the trailer, I just ran a 1/2" bolt through the channel below the rub rail and frame, and that served as a freestanding pin and locked them where they couldn't come loose when empty. However, now I just throw one of the straps over them, diagonally, and pull the down to the trailer, and that's one less strap I have to pull when I'm strapping down a new load.
I assume your stake pockets are set at 2 feet, so it's a perfect distance to use the crosspieces to load the lumber on. So they serve as stacking dunnage when transporting lumber and you won't have to carry 4x4's anymore.
yes 4 feet. I load my own so should not be and issue. I added the pull V ring to lift off if needed. and one in the center so I can use my crane to lift off the whole assembly, although they will likely stay on the trailer most of the time.
got the ends covered with the stabilizers, and I think it looks good.
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Doc, you do excellent fabrication work, I'm curious where you learned the skills?
school of hard knocks, and tincture of time tech. I put a lot of fun stuff off going to school. So I have invested in some of the right tools now. My brother is a class A welder, but not a great teacher, meaning he did not go over technical stuff, but said it should sound a certain way, and be sure and grind and clean everything. i learned a lot of stuff growing up. go out to a friends farm, turn on the buzz box and just weld stuff. Maybe I am just showing the better welds in my photos... anyway the compliment means a lot coming from you. I think it will hold together. and does look pretty good. that I give credit to the design. I have the other stabilizers and lift ring to do on the other one, and then I can help my son William get them painted. Thanks for all the help. I went to a funeral of my Neighbors 91 y/o mom today. She passed from covid. A relative has some ash and walnut trees down on his farm he want me to come and get. I guess I will get to try them out soon. "I am a woodworker, and not a metal worker..." @Old Greenhorn (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=42103) . Or to quote star trek, "DanG it Jim, I am a doctor not a miracle worker!" :) .
Well, you sure do weld better than any Doctor I've ever met! Then again, when I meet a new Doctor I rarely ask him "What's your favorite rod to use on A6 steel?" :D ;D
Agreed, ive often thought youre pretty handy for bein edumacated, doc.
Mig welds should crackle like bacon but faster. Like bacon at an electric razor's buzz frequency. If the weld is bubbled up ontop the parent metal like popcorn, raise the heat. If its melting in good but sounds slow and hissy with a soft crackle, add wire speed. For upside down welds, do everything normal except get the nozzle right up as close as you can, perpendicular to the joint. Real short stickout is a key to upside down. dont try to stack dimes in any position. Move at one steady feedrate start to finish like a sawmill. Pulling the puddle will come out prettier because of the shielding gas staying over the hot weld longer.
ok, on the trailer with the help of my son. able to carry the bunk by the lift ring and they balance nice. I can carry one by hand, but would not want to do more than 10 feet. I was able to reach in my shop to get them, and then set them on the trailer reaching over the front. William guided them in. looks like I have room to drill a pin hole to hold them on, might need a pipe spacer.
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Libby supervised my son and I. should be able to lift them off with my boom and chain by the lift ring. @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) i see your 4 inch winch ratchets are welded to the bottom of the rail. if you get the sliding ones, where does the 6 foot plate go? I will stick with my farm store 27k ones for now. was going to paint them safety orange or red, but decided not to call attention to myself, and just match the trailer. pinstripe anyone? thinking about some reflective tape on the up rights.
A job well done Doc 👍
What did you do for prep and painting?
we use a flap wheel on a 18V batt. DeWalt grinder to knock down sharp corners. rub with a sctch-brite and mineral spirits. then wipe with a rag and MS. then 3 cans of rusty metal red oxide rustoleum primer, then 3 cans of gloss black. 2 coats on the top that will see abrasion. I can touch them up as need on the trailer. the metal was $435.00 bucks including 42 dollars worth of cuts in the tubing and pipe. The uprights are 4 feet, and that puts them about 6 inches taller than my trailer front. I might make two more for big loads but usually I need room on the back for the track loader.
I have at least 10 hours in them, but that includes working out how I wanted to do it, and making template jigs for the holes in the square tubing, and the caps for the uprights. I made a jig to make the 6 pull rings. the rings are made from 5/8th inch sucker rod, from the oil field.
Clearly the medical field was a waste of your true talent doc.
;)
some of the practical use of hand and eye stuff crosses over a bit. thank you.
without the other job, I could not afford these toys and it would seem like work. :)
just a doc, trying not to forget what being a self sufficient man (or women in some cases @Bindian (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=17364) ) is all about.
Thanks for sharing the build Doc. You did a fine job and that was perfect on the paint. Tell your helpers they did well keeping you inline 👍
Quote from: doc henderson on January 16, 2021, 07:40:44 PM
just a doc, trying not to forget what being a self sufficient man (or women in some cases @Bindian (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=17364) ) is all about.
Oh boy do I get this Doc, you and I share that ethos (or whatever that sentiment is). Good on you, but I think I have said this before in some form: If that little Medical hobby thing doesn't work out or get boring, you will be in good shape to make a living.
Truly, you are a rare man.
That trailer looks just super! I can see in another few years you might throw an arch on it with a winch so you can leave the skid steer at home on a lot of pickups. That is, unless you make it into a trailer for collecting sap all around the county or some other noble task. :)
Quote from: doc henderson on June 27, 2020, 11:20:00 AM
trailer rated at 24k, and weighs 6k. skid loader is 9k. only leaves 9k for logs. and yes, my hope is to not tear up the trailer. I like stuff used but otherwise looking good.
Doc,
Double check your trailer's data plate. My trailer is rated for 22k, yet they put 10k axles underneath that are rated for only 9880 pounds each. That means anything over 19,760 pounds needs to go on the hitch. Otherwise, after a while, those axle bearings will be screaming mad. That would mean if you gross your trailer out, your tow vehicle needs to have 4240 pounds on the hitch. 2 tons is quite a load on a one ton truck.
hugs, Brandi
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Here's how I drilled a hole to insert a pin to keep the bunks from possibly coming out if they are empty and not strapped down. I then went to a bolt as a stopper. The pins just go under the frame, act as a positive stop.
I'm I big fan of weld on winches, I like Godzilla strong bindings. So I personally don't like the sliding tracks that much. Weld on winches have a higher rated load capacity, and have a much higher side load strength, such as if a car slides down the side of the trailer. In one of my wrecks, I'm sure the track mounted winches would have been damaged, if not torn off. However, the weld in winches barely lost paint although they unzipped the other person's car like the teeth of a chainsaw. They are scary strong. I've got them placed evenly every 4 feet down the side of the trailer to meet DOT regs of binding distances. So 5 winches.
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This allows me to put 4 pallets of lumber on the trailer with two straps on each pallet. If I'm carrying long boards, I'll use the 5th winch at the dovetail.
Notice how I've got the cross rails over the rear axles? That's the sweet spot on this trailer so when I'm loading or trucking logs, the weight is over the 2 axles with just under the rated load on the gooseneck.
..............oh yeah.............awesome job. Wish I could weld that well.
hugs, Brandi
I will double check, but iI know it was sold as 24K gross. good idea to be sure. works my old truck a bit when "fully loaded"! :o :) thanks everyone for the advice and kudos.
Just fyi.. You could put about 20k on each axle before the bearings got upset about the weight, as long as they have clean lube and correct preload. The spindles would likely bend first or some other failure. I have done a lot of destructive overload testing of trailers without losing a wheel bearing yet.
I have also had a bearing fail and wipe out the spindle nut and have the whole knuckle fly off the steer axle with no load. So keep up with your grease, especially in freezing climates.
Generally, I'll haul three full loads of logs with the uprights on, then pull the uprights off, and haul at least one full load of palletized lumber every week, for the last many years. So the rig you are building will hold up. Mine has outlived its second truck and second trailer, still using the original bunks.
The main thing when carrying any kind of heavy load on a gooseneck is proper weight distribution between the axles and truck bed for proper handling and braking no matter what the capacity. Whenever I think I'm nearing max weight, I go across the scales and generally, it's well with the manufacturers guidelines for axle and hitch loading. Considering the trailer spends more time and miles hooked to my truck than not, when the trailer is loaded heavy and right, it just feels "good." When its improperly loaded or overweight the hairs on my arm will stand up.
You've done a great job on it.
Quote from: doc henderson on January 11, 2021, 07:08:57 PM
yes 4 feet. I load my own so should not be and issue. I added the pull V ring to lift off if needed. and one in the center so I can use my crane to lift off the whole assembly, although they will likely stay on the trailer most of the time.
got the ends covered with the stabilizers, and I think it looks good.
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Doc have you considered push up stakes?
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This is one way to do it another is to add some tube to the outside to allow your stake to slide up and down both styles require a bolt for the driver to lift them or drop them.
I look at the bed of my truck as I load. a little tricky, it I carry the track loader on the back, since it is done by the time it is on there. so I fit it on, and usually does well. I rarely travel far on on busy highways, prob 50 miles max to take skid steer for repairs. I still as you can see, wanted to eliminate the weakest link. any other thought on how to load with good distribution. I may make another set for when someone else can load me. I am usually the guy with the equipment, but have some logs coming up with a rancher that is proud of his stuff, and says he can load me. It may be the maiden voyage for these bunks. so @Skeans1 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=37446) are you saying those hare hinged and fold up and down? I considered that but also adds complexity and a poss. failure point if not adequately engineered. do I need reflectors on the uprights. or reflective tape. ditched the safety red or orange, as to not draw attention. I am not "DOT inspected" but at some level of weight I am sure they will be looking. "logging" is not a thing here.
@Skeans1 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=37446) now I see the slot and 4 notch positions. had not considered that. mine lift off as you can see. I do plan to grind and taper the inside of the outer pipe, so less likely to take off paint each time they are moved. maybe try to coat the inside with something for lube and or rust resistance.
ok @Bindian (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=17364) here is a pic of the tag.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/612ADF46-E1E2-4980-9F52-6776BB27C7EE.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1610908564)
it is the low profile dual tandem. 32 foot, 27 in front of the dovetail.
now for more education for me. this is the first trailer I have with an oil bath bearing, instead of needing repacked, or intermittent pumps of grease. I have topped them off in the past. any other tricks. as you can see, they are hard to see unless cleaned off. It gets washed about once a year. it can set for 2 or 3 months at a time, or get used everyday for a week. @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) @mike_belben (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=33722) .
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/6506137E-550E-4F3B-8158-17D788B2D5EC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1610908564)
Skeans those adjustable stakes could be handy on a forwarder!👍
Doc, you have 12000 lb axles on your trailer so you are good for 24K GVWR rating. Actually gross axle ratings are always limited by the tire ratings. In other words no matter your axle rating you can never exceed the total tire ratings. I think your load range E tires have a rating for dual tires of just over 3000 lbs each so you can use but not exceed the full 12K axle rating even though the total tire ratings do exceed the 12K.
If you ever get stopped by the DOT and weight checked the first thing they look at are tire ratings.
Quote from: barbender on January 17, 2021, 03:02:34 PM
Skeans those adjustable stakes could be handy on a forwarder!👍
When I was loading short logs all the time I could pull the push up and lock them with forwarder. It's crossed my mind to do something like that just need the material and time to do it.
Quote from: doc henderson on January 17, 2021, 01:19:06 PM
I look at the bed of my truck as I load. a little tricky, it I carry the track loader on the back, since it is done by the time it is on there. so I fit it on, and usually does well. I rarely travel far on on busy highways, prob 50 miles max to take skid steer for repairs. I still as you can see, wanted to eliminate the weakest link. any other thought on how to load with good distribution. I may make another set for when someone else can load me. I am usually the guy with the equipment, but have some logs coming up with a rancher that is proud of his stuff, and says he can load me. It may be the maiden voyage for these bunks. so @Skeans1 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=37446) are you saying those hare hinged and fold up and down? I considered that but also adds complexity and a poss. failure point if not adequately engineered. do I need reflectors on the uprights. or reflective tape. ditched the safety red or orange, as to not draw attention. I am not "DOT inspected" but at some level of weight I am sure they will be looking. "logging" is not a thing here.
We are required to have the red lights on both sides of each bunk here in Oregon/Washington.
Quote from: doc henderson on January 17, 2021, 01:22:23 PM
@Skeans1 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=37446) now I see the slot and 4 notch positions. had not considered that. mine lift off as you can see. I do plan to grind and taper the inside of the outer pipe, so less likely to take off paint each time they are moved. maybe try to coat the inside with something for lube and or rust resistance.
You could try to do the outside style push up it's somewhat the same idea, but if you're already running tube it's worth it going to push up like our log trailer. To give you an idea my little butt at 5'6" can push those aluminum 42" stake extensions up with one hand. The cost was all of 250 dollars to do this plus my labor of plasma cutting the "candy cane" into the bunk sides and afterwards you'll never want to flip stakes again.
Might want to think DOT & CDL
anyone have tips on the oil bath hubs?
Lucas Oils have a product just for oil bath setups like that FOR big trucks. It's a really innovative name too!
HUB OIL! It's better than any hub oils I've seen. Regular hypoid oil AKA rearend grease will not stand up to prolonged use
The Lucas cost more, but a LOT less than the least expensive other parts for that setup.
I have topped them off, do they ever need to be drained in some way, to change out the oil.. I almost as worried that it sets so long as that I am wearing them out. any other maintenance?
It's never been a recommendation on the bottle, but I would think it would have a normal maintenance schedule of something like big truck engine oil change intervals. It's really tacky so that in case you have a seal blow, then you still retain more lubricating characteristics than losing ALL of your regular oil. I've only used it in other places on a automotive application, but it's not advertised as being what it's for.
Keep in mind, parts guy for about 30yrs. It's always been a tough sell, but the customers that tried it were EXTREMELY happy with my recommendation.
YMMV🤫
And, usually the hubcaps have a oil access point. I've always seen them filled about 2/3 full. Access point is usually accessible by a allen wrench of whatever style you have.
But, as I've learned lately, TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGIN!
the center is a rubber plug, and you fill till it is running out. should be able to do a walk by visual, but they get dirty.
The only way that I can think of is very labor intensive, pulling the hub assy. That's if you want to, but I'd not push MY luck!
IF you go that route then I'd drain completely, drill a tap for 1/4npt, use female hex plugs, brake clean the snot out of it, and be G2G!
All my trailer hubs have a max fill line on em about a half inch below the plug
I've never claimed to see or know everything.
:) :) :)
Put a scrap of cardboard bent in a vee under the hub and sitting in an oil pan. Ive only done bigrig bolt on covers but yours dont seem to have bolts. Perhaps they thread on or have a snapring.
Anyhow, pull them and let them drain a while. Put back on and refill. A wrecked spindle is a catastrophe, so new known good oil is a bargain.
The lucas white bottle is quite expensive and very thick. It will usually stop a leak for a while then go back to leaking in my experience. You can pour enough lucas through a leaky seal to just buy the seal and do it right. DOT can shove an oiled brake pad right up your butt. We just ran 80w90. Keep it clean and filled to the line. A bit below leaking out but visible from the plug. Bring a bottle with you after a change as itll keep seeping in for a while with tilting side to side. Well.. On a big truck.. Dunno about dexter hubs.
Your truck and trailer empty requires a class A in some states, and possibly in your state, to some troopers even if the state book says otherwise. Its a very ambiguous and gray pile of regulation. For instance in one chapter you may be listed under some exemption. But elsewhere it may say anyone who is REGISTERED for over 26k gcvw (thats truck, trailer, cargo total) requires CDL.. And that can override the exemption in the cops mind. He puts pen to paper, youve got an out of service order abd a parked truck.. boom it has the force of law and youre going to court, like it or not. Maybe a grand or two in wrecker fees too. It may be sorry your honor, it may be lose your license.
I PROMISE... It is cheaper to get it before the day comes when you needed to have it. You can test in your rig, you just wont have airbrake endorsement and probably will have an automatic restriction. In tennessee they call it an A57.
Some of the semi trailers I ran years back had a clear "window" ring around the hub center fill plug, with a line to show when the oil was full. Pre-trip you would carry a rag and wipe off each one and check the level, it it needed some, you'd add 80-90 gear lube we kept in a dish soap bottle. Now a days you can get the spout bottle like Lucas oil has. If you saw a spider-star of oil steaks on the wheel, it meant a bad seal. The outer one being much easier to fix than the inner one. Another tool available today is an infrared thermometer, with it you can stop and check all your hubs after driving while loaded, to see if any are hotter than the others.
Yeah i did the soap bottle too.
A piece of 1/4 airline into a dawn bottle reamed out oversize to fit it by pocketknife makes a handy dandy trans or rear filler in a pinch. If the stem goes all the way into the bottom you just squeeze and itll go up the tube.
Quote from: mike_belben on January 17, 2021, 07:51:31 PM
Put a scrap of cardboard bent in a vee under the hub and sitting in an oil pan. Ive only done bigrig bolt on covers but yours dont seem to have bolts. Perhaps they thread on or have a snapring.
Anyhow, pull them and let them drain a while. Put back on and refill. A wrecked spindle is a catastrophe, so new known good oil is a bargain.
The lucas white bottle is quite expensive and very thick. It will usually stop a leak for a while then go back to leaking in my experience. You can pour enough lucas through a leaky seal to just buy the seal and do it right. DOT can shove an oiled brake pad right up your butt. We just ran 80w90. Keep it clean and filled to the line. A bit below leaking out but visible from the plug. Bring a bottle with you after a change as itll keep seeping in for a while with tilting side to side. Well.. On a big truck.. Dunno about dexter hubs.
Your truck and trailer empty requires a class A in some states, and possibly in your state, to some troopers even if the state book says otherwise. Its a very ambiguous and gray pile of regulation. For instance in one chapter you may be listed under some exemption. But elsewhere it may say anyone who is REGISTERED for over 26k gcvw (thats truck, trailer, cargo total) requires CDL.. And that can override the exemption in the cops mind. He puts pen to paper, youve got an out of service order abd a parked truck.. boom it has the force of law and youre going to court, like it or not. Maybe a grand or two in wrecker fees too. It may be sorry your honor, it may be lose your license.
I PROMISE... It is cheaper to get it before the day comes when you needed to have it. You can test in your rig, you just wont have airbrake endorsement and probably will have an automatic restriction. In tennessee they call it an A57.
Plus if you are responsible for any accidents not being legal and insurance doesn't pay. It could cost you everything
I was originally going to design something innovative with folding down the or telescoping standards, but in practice they are fairly light and I just back the trailer up on my gravel pad, slide the standards up off the stubs by hand and drop them on the ground. Then I go to the other side and do the same. Thats pretty much it. Simple and easy. Since I park my trailer on the same pad everytime, I just back into my spot, hook up the trailer, lift the jacks and as I'm doing my walk around inspection, pick up the standards and slide them back on. For me it's important to take the standards completly off so I can easily load pallets of wood, so need a flatbed trailer configuration.
I literally just drop them on the ground and gave up worry about the paint. The metal stays pretty shiny. :D
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Here's how I pop them off with a crowbar if they ever get stuck. You can see the other one laying on the ground, where it will sit until tomorrow.
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I've had a boat trailer and a PJ25K trailer with oil bath axles and I liked them more than grease hubs. However, they have a couple real life issues that can be a problem. The first is that the caps are plastic, and although tough, will crack under impact. That may never be a problem, but if you've ever dented in a greased axle hub with a log that rolled back agains the hubs or something, there's a chance the oil bath cover will break. So I always carried a spare with some axle oil. I never outright broke one, but I did damage more than one, but they never left me stranded. I've seen some aftermarket aluminum armored hubs that are supposed to solve that problem.
The oil bath axles have fallen out of favor for many boat manufacturers because they can't be filled 100%, most time about 1/2 or 1/3rd the way up. The oil has to have a place to expand when it gets hot and needs to "slosh". The problem is that if the trailer sits for an extended time which is not uncommon with boat trailers, the parts of the axle and bearing that aren't under the oil corrode or rust and fail, especially if near the saltwater. So with oil bath axles, it's important to actually use them regularly to keep this from happening.
The PJ Dexter hubs screw on with an O ring seal. To dump the oil, unscrew the cap, screw it back on and fill it with oil to the line from the front fill plug.
I will always upgrade to the highest load rating tire that will fit in my hub. The trailers that run E can be fitted with G's which is what I run.
Transmissions and rear ends in dead parked vehicles rusts on the air side too after a while.
YH, this is your friendly reminder to oil that trailer deck soon. Im a few years late on mine and wish i wasnt.
Quote from: mike_belben on January 17, 2021, 08:15:17 AM
Just fyi.. You could put about 20k on each axle before the bearings got upset about the weight, as long as they have clean lube and correct preload. The spindles would likely bend first or some other failure. I have done a lot of destructive overload testing of trailers without losing a wheel bearing yet.
I have also had a bearing fail and wipe out the spindle nut and have the whole knuckle fly off the steer axle with no load. So keep up with your grease, especially in freezing climates.
Good to know. My Dad had a 1964 Chevy 1/2 PU turned into a trailer. I was driving while coming home from our deer lease with Dad, when the truck felt like it needed to be downshifted. I looked out the left rear mirrow and saw the trailer wheel bearing was on fire. Now, I like to err on the safe side.
hugs, Brandi
Quote from: doc henderson on January 17, 2021, 01:46:25 PM
ok @Bindian (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=17364) here is a pic of the tag.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/612ADF46-E1E2-4980-9F52-6776BB27C7EE.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1610908564)
it is the low profile dual tandem. 32 foot, 27 in front of the dovetail.
now for more education for me. this is the first trailer I have with an oil bath bearing, instead of needing repacked, or intermittent pumps of grease. I have topped them off in the past. any other tricks. as you can see, they are hard to see unless cleaned off. It gets washed about once a year. it can set for 2 or 3 months at a time, or get used everyday for a week. @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) @mike_belben (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=33722) .
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/6506137E-550E-4F3B-8158-17D788B2D5EC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1610908564)
Sweet.............12k axles. My tag says 10k axles, but I found the manual stated 9880 pounds. Why the difference...........I have no clue. I have to wipe the hub covers down every time I check air pressures, to check the oil levels.
hugs, Brandi
Yeah, i had the big trailer on fire once on the shoulder on i-40 in NC. A brake chamber diaphram failed at the very back and engaged slowly.
A fine gallon of walmart juice mix valiently gave its last drop putting that out, before 3 fire trucks arrived. ;D
Knocked the clevis pin out of the rod yoke and put the slack adjuster under the bunk to finish my run with the rear shoe wired up as best i could get it. A lot can go wrong when you leave home so i try not to anymore!
Quote from: doc henderson on January 17, 2021, 01:19:06 PM
I look at the bed of my truck as I load. a little tricky, it I carry the track loader on the back, since it is done by the time it is on there. so I fit it on, and usually does well. I rarely travel far on on busy highways, prob 50 miles max to take skid steer for repairs. I still as you can see, wanted to eliminate the weakest link. any other thought on how to load with good distribution. I may make another set for when someone else can load me. I am usually the guy with the equipment, but have some logs coming up with a rancher that is proud of his stuff, and says he can load me. It may be the maiden voyage for these bunks. so @Skeans1 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=37446) are you saying those hare hinged and fold up and down? I considered that but also adds complexity and a poss. failure point if not adequately engineered. do I need reflectors on the uprights. or reflective tape. ditched the safety red or orange, as to not draw attention. I am not "DOT inspected" but at some level of weight I am sure they will be looking. "logging" is not a thing here.
I got farm tags from my timber/agriculture exemption. I was pulled over when I was bringing some roller tables (painted bright Yellow, which screamed commercial, not personal) home from my local welding shop. All the trooper asked was,...........are you hauling personal property. I smiled and said.......................YES, with all the Texas drawl I could muster.
Then I hear................have a nice day.
hugs, Brandi
Quote from: mike_belben on January 17, 2021, 08:55:04 PM
YH, this is your friendly reminder to oil that trailer deck soon. Im a few years late on mine and wish i wasnt.
Yes, I agree. I have been letting it go too long because I have some pretty big holes in the deck from where big butt flair logs have punched through the boards. I've got some work to do already. I have been meaning to to replace the decking, but I have until next inspection, in August, to deal with it.
I am almost thinking of removing the decking altogether and leaving it off. But I'm worried that without the shock absorbing layer of wood, my steel would get damaged. Any thoughts?
YH, steel is pretty tuff stuff,, so I hope/know you're just yanking our chain!
Well.. With just crossmembers itll become just a two trick pony (logs or lumber only) but if you only need your pony to do two tricks...
How will you keep the rusty steel from staining your lumber packs? You truly dont need it for anything else? Moving tractor or cars ever?
Quote from: doc henderson on January 17, 2021, 05:30:05 PM
anyone have tips on the oil bath hubs?
Have a Diamond C trailer with the standard plastic caps and want to upgrade to Valcrum's premium aluminum alloy oil hubcaps? Select your compatible Lippert/Dexter axle here to order the correct Valcrum hubcap for your trailer for an easy upgrade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/7045FAFF-EC78-4706-8CEE-B5C718520CCB.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1611479846)
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found some great test "logs" with almost no taper to test out my bunks. a little heart rot all the way through, and it is a "black" something. came from a grain elevator. My buddy Dallas, did not want to see them go to waste. no leaves or bark, but some wheat ran out of the center. had linear rings, not concentric.
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it was an hour drive. the uprights pulled off nice. we had 3 sold before we got home to friends we thought might need them. hundred bucks a piece. a day later Dallas's wife got 200$ each for 3 more on Craig's list, but they have not been picked up yet. got some dirt on the paint, and they worked well. will prob. sell as is, although @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) would prob. quarter saw, and @Southside (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297) would house chickens in them. :D :D :D
Seems to be ring diffuse? Probably very rot resistant
I would love to get my hands on that score.
all i see is a trailer full of cash.
All I see are some well made and very sturdy metal bunks!
Looks great Doc!
the same culvert pipe is 540 bucks at a farm store each. good deal at 200 bucks, and not buried for a thousand years.
Quote from: YellowHammer on June 27, 2020, 05:47:20 PM
I've hauled many million pounds of logs and lumber in my PJ Gooseneck setup, for several years, maybe 400 miles a week on a DOT inspected truck and trailer. This is a very safe and extremely strong setup, with 4 inch heavy wall tubing for bunks, and removable side supports for hauling packs of lumber. The bunks slip on heavy stubs. The whole thing sits in the stakes pockets and can removed if desired. When hauling lumber, just slip the bunks off the studs and leave the main assembly on the trailer to allow forklifts to get their forks under the pallet.
I have many pictures with measurements in my galley, and several people have reproduced this design with success.
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5893 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5893)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~65.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1405219548)
The side supports slip over stubs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~60.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1403062176)
The studs are through welded and inset Inyo the 4x4, it is not just fillet welded to the top. In order for the stud to come off, it would literally have to rip itself through the steel square tubing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~84.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1418527401)
Great Idea and thank you for sharing it with us. I'm researching all the equipment and "things" I will need to get started and this helps a lot.
Quote from: YellowHammer on June 27, 2020, 05:47:20 PM
I've hauled many million pounds of logs and lumber in my PJ Gooseneck setup, for several years, maybe 400 miles a week on a DOT inspected truck and trailer. This is a very safe and extremely strong setup, with 4 inch heavy wall tubing for bunks, and removable side supports for hauling packs of lumber. The bunks slip on heavy stubs. The whole thing sits in the stakes pockets and can removed if desired. When hauling lumber, just slip the bunks off the studs and leave the main assembly on the trailer to allow forklifts to get their forks under the pallet.
I have many pictures with measurements in my galley, and several people have reproduced this design with success.
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5893 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5893)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~65.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1405219548)
The side supports slip over stubs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~60.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1403062176)
The studs are through welded and inset Inyo the 4x4, it is not just fillet welded to the top. In order for the stud to come off, it would literally have to rip itself through the steel square tubing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~84.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1418527401)
How tall are your stubs? Side supports? I ask because you mentioned when you have a really big log that is too heavy to lift over the supports, you remove them and roll it off. I'm curious about how you roll over the rather sizable stubs? They look like they stick up at least 6-8+ inches from the cross members
It's easy. If you have a log on the trailer heavier than your loader can deadlift, using the forks on the loader or tractor, push and slide the log against the far side of the trailer against the stubs.
Then ease the forks under the log, and have the tips extend slightly outboard of the trailer frame. Gently pry the log over the stubs using the forks as a huge crowbar, and gently roll it over the stubs, and have it thump to the ground. You can get huge leverage like this to pry off all even the biggest logs. Also, use the heel of the loader forks to contain the trailer from trying to flip over, if the log weighs more than the trailer.
Otherwise, if the logs are extremely huge, cut a piece of railroad crosstie into the shape of a wedge taller than the stubs, then simply roll the log off on the wedge ramp, over the tops of the stubs.
This is why I'm not a big fan of grapples for unloading logs, the grapples are heavy so reduce the lifting capacity of the loader, and they also attach the tractor or loader directly to the log, if they are used to actually grapple the log. If the log is grappled off its center of gravity, it can roll the tractor. Using forks, if the logs isn't being lifted in its CG, the forks can be rapidly dropped and moved to the side. No big deal.
Heres are some pics of some of the logs I've unloaded.
A load of big sycamore:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/5A3E2F72-8321-4B78-B777-C8A6E22A4D1D.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1518444891)
Here's a very heavy oak log I rolled off the trailer with wooden wedges.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_1673.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1525661967)
Love seeing those pictures YH. How long is your trailer?
It's a 25 foot PJ.
For reference, I'm 6'5" and you can see how big the oak logs is. For unloading it, I placed a few cut off stumps under the trailer frame so that when all the weight was to one side of the trailer, the frame would rest on the stumps. That way I wouldn't risk bending the frame or flipping the trailer. I then put the wedges on, and crowbarred it right off the trailer with the forks.
Later, I found out that the guys at the local mega mill were taking bets if I would buy it, if I could get it home, if I could unload it, and if I would damage anything in the process. Only one fellow bet all in on me, and when I showed back for another load of logs later in the day, he was a happy guy. :D
Thanks Yellowhammer, that is incredibly helpful and makes perfect sense. I'm new to this world and it's easy to get caught up in trying to buy equipment big enough to lift these 1-off logs but there's a lot of value in ingenuity with leverage/mechanical advantage.
So much to learn....
Appreciate you sharing all this information.
Quote from: doc henderson on February 11, 2021, 04:08:47 PM
found some great test "logs" with almost no taper to test out my bunks. a little heart rot all the way through, and it is a "black" something. came from a grain elevator. My buddy Dallas, did not want to see them go to waste. no leaves or bark, but some wheat ran out of the center. had linear rings, not concentric.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/4A8684D7-E540-4D2B-BE55-7173CA6B51B1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1612627710)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/5405130E-E9AA-4731-8961-5E5F829B67C8.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1612627710)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/4D1B812E-C758-40BD-82C1-54E7C5175BCD.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1612627708)
it was an hour drive. the uprights pulled off nice. we had 3 sold before we got home to friends we thought might need them. hundred bucks a piece. a day later Dallas's wife got 200$ each for 3 more on Craig's list, but they have not been picked up yet. got some dirt on the paint, and they worked well. will prob. sell as is, although @YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) would prob. quarter saw, and @Southside (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297) would house chickens in them. :D :D :D
@doc henderson (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=41041)
Just checking in, I saw a post on another topic about your trailer, how is the steel bunk system working out?
It is perfect. got a nice load of walnut, after the maiden voyage getting 8 2 foot x 20 plastic culvert pipes. We have been cool and rainy, and a new tree service has been dropping off wood, so I am underwater with logs I need to mill. days of rain, followed by days of mud, and then more rain. Work has been busy, and days off have been devoted to a merger with our company and another large corporation so my days off have been full, and if not, I have been too distracted to go get more wood. the bunks are perfect, but I need more free time.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/89C94C29-EFA8-4BE7-A3C1-A3006FD7A543.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1617584254)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/6CF3C011-98B5-4899-8D0A-56C182FA85FC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1617584257)
@Cardiodoc (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=51488) and his daughter. still thinking about the integrated load straps. If you were reading about the cottonwood log rolling off the downhill side, that was years ago using the oak stays. you can see the combo of new pipe, vs the old wood ones in the culvert pipe pic.
price shop redneck trailer, US cargo control and mytee products for your 4" straps and winches.
When I drove flatbed I couldn't have too many straps. ;D
I hated throwing chains, but they do bite in good on odd shaped wood loads like the stack on the front of the trailer. They also have chain binders now you can tighten and loosen with a cordless drill, way faster than cranking them by hand.
That's great. I'm glad to see it's working well.
thanks again for all your help Rob, and input from others. good info in the thread, and the highways and my uncle are safer as a result. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/57944/F7EE10C7-8CF1-44EC-9B28-0D947DC9A8CC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1624353213)
Not a very good picture but I made a set out of 4" channel uprights and 2"x4"x1/4" cross members with come 1/4 gussets. I've hauled 8 loads with them so far and have had good results. Except when I bent one upright with my Ford 555. Kept giving her gas and it wasn't going into the pile. Then I saw the bend ;)