Battery operated fire trucks

Raider Bill · May 25, 2021, 12:29:45 PM

Just kidding.

I was talking with one of our city firemen this morning. He works the rescue squad.
He told me they are getting a new squad. All devices will be battery powered.
Jaws of life, porta power, chop and chain saws everything. Not a single air hose or gas motor on the thing.

From his point of view, no more getting saws started every morning, gas cans or air hoses pulled all over a accident scenes.

Says he's looking forward to not having to use gas power to cut vents in roofs anymore. Starting them on steep roofs or having them choke out because of too much smoke effecting how it ran.

Crazy.

Jeff · May 25, 2021, 12:42:23 PM

Ya know, I can wrap my pea brain around switching to electric from gas when you describe those kind of real world benefits. "Because we are destroying the world doesn't" sit with me. This does.

Southside · May 25, 2021, 12:45:48 PM

My 18V Milwaukee impact will kick the snot out of an air impact all day long and the two chainsaws I have get used every day, all day. Just be sure to get plenty of batteries with high amp hour ratings and life is good.

sawguy21 · May 25, 2021, 12:49:36 PM

Likely the wave of the future for those guys. I was at an accident scene where I helped get the jaws of life started, the crew members were not mechanics. Then I boosted the ambulance. :

It was a small town fire brigade with old equipment.

Wudman · May 25, 2021, 02:15:59 PM

Electric tools work very well in applications that are not used regularly as well. I have 120V hedge trimmers, pole saw, mini-tiller and post hole auger. When running gas engines, you could guarantee that something wouldn't start. Now I just have to keep the generator running instead of a bunch of china made two stroke engines.

The same applies to extrication tools used by small departments. I've had a number of times that a powerpack didn't want to run or was tough to start. Not something you want when a life is on the line.

Another piece of advice, buy OEM batteries. I have a handful of aftermarket china knock-offs that don't have the same power or longevity of their OEM counterparts.

Wud

Old Greenhorn · May 25, 2021, 02:22:36 PM

Well, I am not riding the trucks anymore and I will be the first to support those doing the job in that they should have the best tools to do the job. However, a lot of these purchasing decisions are mad by 'senior' folks who have been off the trucks for a while and they are influenced by sales people offering them all kinds of incentives and there is often the pressure of being 'the first' to have new gear in an area or have better gear than surrounding agencies. Having seen all that and more, I wonder if these choices are made just a little prematurely. There are a lot of variables.
Near the end of my time in the service we saw the battery powered jaws coming in and a neighboring department had a set. I trained on them and talked a lot with the guys using them after real jobs. In general they said that they were great for getting a tool on the job quickly to execute an initial access point to a patient (which was huge) and do simple work, but they lacked the staying power on big jobs and when you looked for that extra power you could expect off the hydraulic rigs, it just wasn't there. We also used a lot of battery powered tools like lights, small demo saws, sawzalls, etc. Keeping batteries in good condition got to be problematic. You can see when a gas tank is empty and fill it. When a battery is not holding full charges the only way to find out is to use it and see how long it lasts. Some jobs we would drain every battery we had and that ain't good. Guys who had run direct to the call in their work trucks were becoming our backup battery source and that ain't good either. Yes, we had chargers on the rigs and those batteries were on a maintainer/charger the whole time they were in the station (assuming somebody did a daily check to rotate the extras into the chargers).
Now I know the battery tech is hugely improved now and the tool tech is also improved tremendously, but I am a conservative and I know how it feels to explain to somebody that the tools were not up to the job and we had to resort to plan B to get their loved one out. That also ain't good. I don't think I would run all battery tools until we had run both sets of tools for a while and found no need for the hydraulics. The fire service faces some unusual challenges and they come unexpectedly. If you are not prepared the outcome can ruin somebody's day. We always kept a small hand hydraulic pump with forceable entry tools on the rig. Those had gone out of style a decade before, but it sure did make quick work in certain situations and was faster than anything else available.
I wish them the best of luck. It's a tough job, especially volunteers who don't get the daily drills and training they need to keep sharp. It's not their fault, they have lives and have to make a living and then are expected to be perfect when the tones drop. They risk their necks and if they are lucky then don't get seriously hurt, wind up with a killer virus, contract cancer, or any of those other fringe benefits. I hope those battery tools help them.

Raider Bill · May 25, 2021, 03:21:23 PM

Now I'm told our Motor Cops are going to electric bikes instead of the Harley's.
I may have to move.

firefighter ontheside · May 25, 2021, 04:23:19 PM

We do not have any trucks with 100% battery powered tools, but we do have all battery powered rescue tool including spreaders, cutters and hydraulic rams. We did training with these and everyone of our guys was totally impressed with the performance. We have guys like myself with 30 years of experience and of course fresh out of school. We can cut every door off of a car, cut the roof off and push the dash up with one set of batteries. We have spare batteries for the next car, but we also have more than one truck coming to a rescue and they have a whole other set of tools. We also have what we call a combi tool at each engine house. This is a tool that is a spreader and a cutter combination. We have 60 volt Dewalt recip saws on every truck, and a few trucks with Dewalt chainsaws and cutoff saws. We still carry gas chainsaws and cutoff saws. The portability gained from not having a tool connected to a hose is amazing. We are often needing these tools in creeks and other locations over 100 feet from the truck. We used to have two 100' hose reels on every apparatus plus the power unit. That saves a lot of weight and space on the truck. In the past when we needed to be far from the truck we would have to carry a heavy power unit and switch over to a shorter portable hose.

We also have battery powered lights that are awesome and battery powered ventilation fans.

Talking about having to start a tool standing on the roof of a house that is on fire, I was only a FF for a year or two when I was sent to the roof of a house to cut a vent hole. I still remember vividly pulling the cord to start the saw and immediately my legs went thru the roof and I stopped falling when my arms got stuck. My partner helped me get out of the hole in the roof and we quickly got off the roof. Like Old Greenhorn, I'm not riding the truck anymore either.

HemlockKing · May 25, 2021, 05:29:50 PM

Imo would be good since they spontaneously need the equipment by fast, no time to warm up engine etc, probably prematurely wears cylinder. I can see how electric would be beneficial to this and like mentioned less stuff to carry around. Construction guys are going electric chainsaws around here, they are bad for firing stuff up and trying to cut a stack at once, also no warm up time, time is money etc.

Old Greenhorn · May 25, 2021, 05:58:59 PM

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on May 25, 2021, 04:23:19 PM...... I still remember vividly pulling the cord to start the saw and immediately my legs went thru the roof and I stopped falling when my arms got stuck. My partner helped me get out of the hole in the roof and we quickly got off the roof. Like Old Greenhorn, I'm not riding the truck anymore either.

Well, at least you got the roof vented like the Lt asked. :D ;D
(sorry for the black humor, many FF's have died in the same situation)
You are still active in the service and I am not. Glad to hear those tools are working for you because they are much easier to work with. We were (are) a volley department. Every tool on my engine was run, checked for oil and fuel, and cycled every Sunday morning. I know this because I did it myself. My saws were sharp and everything started on the second pull or it went for service. That's how I ran my truck. The engines in the other stations were hit or miss because if the Lt's didn't do it, the Capt. would not see to it, he would hound the Lt's. I just did it myself and I knew it was done right. We kept a big pump on the rig, and a smaller portable unit with another set of hoses to move on location if needed. We couldn't always count on a lot of the correct equipment showing up in the 2nd due trucks. Bottom line is that it comes down to people really taking care of the gear and keeping their skills sharp and fast. Those new battery tools should help with that and as you say, they are now doing the job, so that is a big plus.
My department keeps trying to get me back in, but as somebody once said I wouldn't be a member of any department that would have a guy like me as a member. ;D ;D I have a real problem with volunteer departments that keep older folks in active duty status. I read too many stories of 75 year old guys killed while directing traffic on an interstate at 4am. Why would any department put somebody in that position? I think back on my FAST team (RIT) training and how that nearly killed me with the exertion (age55) and wonder why a department would put an old guy in that spot?
Sorry, getting off on a tangent and a soapbox at the same time and most folks won't really understand my perspective anyway because they haven't been there.
If those new tools do the job, then I say go for it. The motorcycles, well, not so much. :D

Tacotodd · May 25, 2021, 06:16:59 PM

OGH Tom, those are the same reasons why I'm not spec-ops military. Never have been & never will be. At my age, you've GOT to be kidding me

And I'm just shy of 50!

firefighter ontheside · May 25, 2021, 07:21:56 PM

OGH, don't think I didn't claim that I vented the roof. Lol.
We just sent our last set of gas powered rescue tools down the road to another department that will use them. In fact, its the department whose area I live in. They cover 240 square miles with with only about 4 fulltime people working per day and count on volunteers for the rest. We cover 30 sq miles and we have 10 on duty each day.

firefighter ontheside · May 25, 2021, 07:43:06 PM

So, these are some of our battery powered rescue tools. The two in the compartment standing up straight are a spreader and cutter. The ram is about 20" when retracted and extends out to about 60" I think. It is partially extended in the pic. Next to the axe that I put in for size reference is the combination cutter/spreader. We also still have several corded recip saws ready to go.

trapper · May 25, 2021, 10:03:49 PM

raider Harley is making electric cycles now.

mike_belben · May 25, 2021, 11:24:16 PM

2 or 3 years ago i came around the bend to a line of parked traffic. An elderly woman rolled it into the ditch and clipped a pole mid air. She was suspended completely upside down by the seatbelt with an oxygen tank on the ceiling and no way to get to her. The one available door was wrecked and the rest in the dirt bank. Trunk too. It wasnt terribly bad but she was dripping blood from somewhere i couldnt see.

About 6 feet of the pole was under her car and the rest of the pole was standing vertically by the wires holding it up. I almost got the door of that civic cut open with a M12 hackzawl by the time the jaws of life came and i got out of the way.

chet · May 25, 2021, 11:30:42 PM

Just for Raider electric Harley-Davidson LiveWire sound [RAW Onboard] - YouTube

But for me, I'll keep my Ultra

firefighter ontheside · May 26, 2021, 07:16:51 AM

No doubt @mike_belben we can do almost as much with a recip and a good blade as we can with tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools. Mostly we use it to cut all the posts in a a car and cut the windshield to take the roof all the way off.

mike_belben · May 26, 2021, 07:31:25 AM

Yeah blades are everything. The hardened U bolt in the latch wiped out most of the teeth on the blade i had and that really slowed me down.

Dave Shepard · May 26, 2021, 11:12:18 AM

I think it's Milwaukee that has a blade called the Torch designed to cut cars apart. I'm sure there's a YouTube of it. You can do a lot of cutting on a 12ah battery.

mike_belben · May 26, 2021, 11:43:45 AM

yes, torch is one of the very best. that was the only blade that would cut a welded grade 8 bolt that had hardened for me maybe 2 weeks ago. i finished off about 5 other half used ones on a single 3/8 bolt.

firefighter ontheside · May 26, 2021, 11:47:14 AM

Yes, we have lots of torch blades.

Raider Bill · May 26, 2021, 01:13:07 PM

Quote from: trapper on May 25, 2021, 10:03:49 PM
raider Harley is making electric cycles now.

Well I just bought a harley trike so I'm thinking by the time I go electric it will probably be Hoverround or rascal lol.
Local FD has 6 full-time stations. One only has a engine the rest go from 2 pcs of equipment up to the main station that has 5 fully manned pieces of equipment.
Everything is Pierce.

doc henderson · May 26, 2021, 04:15:11 PM

I agree with comment # 2. lets not get in a hurry until the technology is here and it has been tested in real life. It will clearly have a place. but do not forbid the other stuff based on unicorn farts. sorry green house emissions.

Tacotodd · May 26, 2021, 05:05:58 PM

Doc I liked your post in all ways that were expressed. I REALLY like how accurate it is on ALL accounts. 8)

upnut · May 26, 2021, 05:07:48 PM

People tend to forget those battery powered widgets are actually coal powered or natural gas powered and ALOT of internal combustion engines are relied upon to deliver the electricity needed to charge them up.....speaking from 30 years experience in a coal-fired power plant.....I do believe battery powered tools are the way to go, tremendous progress in the last ten years.

Scott B.