The dirtwork thread

[Walnut Beast]

Try a Harley rake in clay pack 😂. I owned a new one with the power angles and it went down the road in a short time

[Tom King]

I wish I could rent one that had teeth longer than a half inch.   I don't need one bad enough to buy one, but the ones sitting on rental lots don't look like they'd do much.

[Patrick NC]

Creating this so as not to derail a fescue thread. Please everyone feel free to use this as a catch-all for anything to do with dirtwork.  Questions or answers, sharing your projects... whatever.  Roadbuilding, gravel, drainage, septic, ponds, construction pads etc etc.  If a shovel or hoe was used in any way (manual or hydraulic) then it fits here.

Thanks @mike_belben for starting a thread that I have some knowledge about! 😁

[mike_belben]

Thanks for all your input.. Its nice to hear what the techniques are when money isnt much of an object. (State/federal roadbuilding)

All of my experience is the opposite.. Sparing money, or doing something useable without any at all, is THE primary object

[florida]

The mother of geogrid!

Mechanical Concrete This Changes Everything HD - YouTube

[Patrick NC]

The mother of geogrid!

Mechanical Concrete This Changes Everything HD - YouTube

That is a genius idea. I've never used it, but I've seen plans for using that system under a truck stop parking lot where there is constant heavy traffic. With all the emphasis on using recycled materials these days I can see that becoming a big thing. 

[Kindlinmaker]

Harley feedback

I installed dozens of high-end lawns during the housing boom.    Most of our work was in subdivisions of 1+ acre lots with large center hall colonials in serious hill country.  Adding topsoil to acre+ lots was cost prohibitive so most used existing soils where we would remove about 30 yards of stone per acre. Process was: 1) required mechanical drainage build  2) Irrigation install as required  3)drainage grading  4) York raking, debris removal and final grade adjustments  5) 2-3 machine passes with hand raking behind the final pass  6) Seed, fertilize and mulch or hydro.

Harley rakes are designed to windrow stone lying on the surface.  A landscape tiller is designed to level, windrow, smooth and prepare a seed bed.  They look somewhat similar but the tiller will have a much larger/heavier drum with very significant carbide teeth counter spinning to direction of travel.  The tiller will also have a trailing metering roller pressing down the finished seed bed and controlling the tiller depth which has a maximum practical depth of 2 - 3 inches.  Tillers  are 2 - 3 time heavier than rakes and double or triple the price to match.  

At the request of equipment dealers, I tried a few Harley style rakes.  None ever ended up on one of our tractors permanently.  I don't think I would spend any time at all trying to put a seed lawn in without a good tiller.  I happen to like ATI's preseeder but there are others that are equally good (ATI was my first and I learned to comb a field mouse's hair with it so it was just very comfortable to me.)

Since we used heavy duty Yorks for hydro prep abrading on rough finish erosion control projects, I just never found a practical application for a Harley.  Might work for spreading screened top but you wouldn't use one if you have tillers on your tractors.  

[barbender]

What do you mean, Kindlinmaker? I was on a Facebook skidsteer site, and the Harley rake seemed to turn all of those guys into instant grading contractors, according to them!😁

[Kindlinmaker]

I hear ya Barbender and that is one important point.  Having the right equipment helps so much.  I could put a finish grade down and make seed beds as well as anybody.  I never had a shortage of orders and generally had to turn work away during planting season.  

I didn't do much rough grading nor back blading but I had access to the most beautiful new dozer sitting outside a friend's shop where I did a lot of my repair work.  I certainly knew how to run it.  Cannot tell you how many times that dozer saved my bacon - those tracks were just the right height for me to sit my weary butt down while I was on the phone arranging for somebody that actually knew what the heck they were doing to come rough grade my next job!

Anybody can buy a fiddle but that don't mean they can play Orange Blossom Special.

[aigheadish]

This is an interesting thread I'll be keeping an eye on. 

I have about 3 acres of yard, which I've essentially destroyed with about 15,000 lbs. of backhoe. I do a fair amount of honeysuckle removal with it, tree removal and extraction, pond digging, creek recontouring, etc., and I've got fairly huge ruts in a lot of different places that I'd love to smooth out. It was suggested, on the heavy equipment forums, to try a harley rake also and it sounded like it may work, but I'm not sure. I've got grass growing everywhere and grass seed cost, for the space involved, is a bit prohibitive to come in and make a wreck of things but that may be the route I have to go. The other part is I'm not done running around on the backhoe, my pond still needs tons of work and there are lots of trees to drag around. I'm certainly learning that dry ground helps a lot but sometimes that's not feasible either. The problem really boils down to mowing is either crazy slow or bordering on painful. I can't imagine that I'll be able to do anything without really disrupting things but I guess we'll see, eventually.

[PoginyHill]

Question: woven or non-woven fabric to line a road ditch before a layer of 2-6" stone or rip-rap? Or is fabric necessary for that? Flat or steep grade - does that impact the decision?

[Patrick NC]

Question: woven or non-woven fabric to line a road ditch before a layer of 2-6" stone or rip-rap? Or is fabric necessary for that? Flat or steep grade - does that impact the decision?

Woven is for soil stabilization and non woven is used to keep materials separated. So in a ditch you would want non woven. The main reason is so the rock doesn't sink into the dirt and become contaminated. Same theory as covering the rock in a septic drain field with fabric or straw before backfilling. As far as how steep the grade is, with a steep grade you need to use bigger rock. Depending on how much water flow there is you may need head sized rip rap or riverbank ballast. With a fairly flat grade and less flow you can get away with smaller rock such as 6" rip rap. 

[Patrick NC]

This is an interesting thread I'll be keeping an eye on.

I have about 3 acres of yard, which I've essentially destroyed with about 15,000 lbs. of backhoe. I do a fair amount of honeysuckle removal with it, tree removal and extraction, pond digging, creek recontouring, etc., and I've got fairly huge ruts in a lot of different places that I'd love to smooth out. It was suggested, on the heavy equipment forums, to try a harley rake also and it sounded like it may work, but I'm not sure. I've got grass growing everywhere and grass seed cost, for the space involved, is a bit prohibitive to come in and make a wreck of things but that may be the route I have to go. The other part is I'm not done running around on the backhoe, my pond still needs tons of work and there are lots of trees to drag around. I'm certainly learning that dry ground helps a lot but sometimes that's not feasible either. The problem really boils down to mowing is either crazy slow or bordering on painful. I can't imagine that I'll be able to do anything without really disrupting things but I guess we'll see, eventually.

If I was going to use a Harley take in that situation I think I'd fill all the ruts first and then work a seedbed with s disc harrow first. Then Harley take to finish. 

[Bruno of NH]

Ventrac makes a type of rake tiller thing that looks like it prepares a good seed bed.

[Bruno of NH]

One other thing.
When I was building full time there was nothing worse than a bad site work guy.
I told one guy once he moved the same dirt so much he wore it out and had to get new dirt  :D
Some guys are smooth as silk on a site.
I learned to ask who was doing the site work. If it was certain guys I would decline the job.

[HemlockKing]

One other thing.
When I was building full time there was nothing worse than a bad site work guy.
I told one guy once he moved the same dirt so much he wore it out and had to get new dirt  :D
Some guys are smooth as silk on a site.
I learned to ask who was doing the site work. If it was certain guys I would decline the job.

I know of someone who hired a Craigslist/kijiji "Contractor" aka just a dummie with little know how, anyway, the guy was suppose to smooth out a area for a yard of which there was massive beautiful oak trees in the yard(the whole reasoning of picking that spot), buddy cutt/ripped all the surface roots up with his blade and the trees died shortly after. Leaving just a bare ugly yard. 

[Wudman]

Geotech is your friend.  Nobody around here uses it or ever head of it - just buy more 57's and let them push down through the clay is all I was told in these parts.  Growing up it was like Christmas when the paper mill would change the felt.  Everybody was getting a new driveway, walkway, etc after that.  

During spring breakup I have watched loaded log trucks and massive wheel loaders running on a foot of shale that was over a layer of Geotech, in the middle of cedar swamp ground.  The whole road would wave up and down, but the tires would not leave so much as an imprint.  

I've heard of it......... ;D  And have used a bit to cross booger holes......And I start with #3s. ;D

[Hilltop366]

I redid 800 feet of my driveway a while back, it was originally made by digging out the top soil that was 2 to 3 feet deep and filling it in with a soft shale but after 15 years and several wash outs it was getting pretty bad so I put in a layer of 2" road material and a layer of 3/4" road material it seems to hold up quite well. I lost count of how much material I put in after 300 ton, probably no more than 400 ton. (24 ton per load) 

[PoginyHill]

Improving access road to my woodlot. Several wet areas. Worst of them I used woven fabric and some 3" screened gravel. 11 loads (15yds each) so far. Use by dump trailer to bring into the road. Not suitable for a truck. Trailer holds 4-5 yds. First load of gravel is dumped in a pile and spread with the Case 310 dozer. Subsequent loads I can tailgate spread.



 

 

 

 

 

 

[Patrick NC]

Nice old dozer. Is it diesel or gas?

[mike_belben]

Looks like you have your own native gravel bank to choose from.  Wish that was an option in clay country.  One way or another youre paying the quarry and the truck out here. 


In my case for a narrow forest road like that where you cant deviate from the two tire tracks...  i would tailgate spread 4-6" rock with a vee deflector clamped in the center of the duckbill on back of the truck so it only fills the tire tracks and neglects the center.   Will about double your linear footage per load.  

Can cap it in finer rock if you want a prettier finish for cars or feet.   

[PoginyHill]

Nice old dozer. Is it diesel or gas?

Gas. Unbelievably reliable in starting. Whether hot or sitting for 4 months.

[PoginyHill]

Looks like you have your own native gravel bank to choose from.  Wish that was an option in clay country.  One way or another youre paying the quarry and the truck out here.


In my case for a narrow forest road like that where you cant deviate from the two tire tracks...  i would tailgate spread 4-6" rock with a vee deflector clamped in the center of the duckbill on back of the truck so it only fills the tire tracks and neglects the center.   Will about double your linear footage per load.  

Can cap it in finer rock if you want a prettier finish for cars or feet.  

Great idea. There are some portions of this road that are narrow enough as you describe. But most is wide enough for at least 2 quads to pass, maybe two SBS's. Plus the road is used by full size trucks down to a bicycle, so not everyone is following the same tracks. I get a similar effect where there are defined ruts when I pass over with the dozer. Blade skims the higher portions and fill the ruts. Where I am, 3" gravel is cheaper than tailings (2-6"stone) by $2/yd, so I've been using all gravel. Crushed stone is like 2-3X the price, but would be ideal.

[PoginyHill]

Looks like you have your own native gravel bank to choose from.  Wish that was an option in clay country.  One way or another youre paying the quarry and the truck out here.

I live in clay country, but there is a vein of good gravel within a mile of my house. One outfit has a crusher operation. The other has only screened products. I use the screened products when I can because it's much cheaper. But the crushed gravel is much better for a compacted driveway surface. For this road there was a section I used dense grade (6" minus crushed rock with rock dust). Here I was filling a ravine of smooth ledge and concerned anything else would wash out. It sets up like concrete. Everything else is 3" screened gravel.

[PoginyHill]

My previous pics were of the access road to my wood lot from the side I live on. It is a half-mile section of "class 4" town road (town right-of-way, but not town maintained) which was barely passable with an ATV. That section is done. Easily traveled with a pick-up now.

Now I'm working on access from the opposite end. The landing is about 400 ft from a maintained section of road. This would be the access for any equipment or log trucks.

This is what the road looked like before I began work. Here I had just starting clearing the landing. The road was narrow and basically a rocky river bed. Over the years, finer material was pushed to the sides causing a bowl-shaped profile that caught water in the spring and anytime it rained.


  

I cleared alongside the road where my property abuts it.


 

Then I moved material from the cleared path to the road in order to raise its height a bit.


 

This is where I left things last fall. With the leaves gone, cooler weather and rain, it became a muddy mess in the fall and this spring.


 

Fast forward to now. Road dried and packed nicely (clay-type soil). Installed a 15" culvert to direct drain to the right-side. 


 

And have begun digging the ditch and raising road some more so that water doesn't run into the road again. Will then line ditch with fabric and stone tailings. Unsure If I'll top road with gravel or leave as is. It may remain dry enough to stay packed and hard without a topping. We'll see.