What would our forefathers think?

[Deadwood]

What would our forefathers think?

It was a question that came to me while answering another thread and I thought I would post the question here for your thoughts as well.

My great grandfather twenty times removed came over from England on the Mayflower...literally and made his home from a very meager supply of tools. Axes and a pitsaw if he was lucky. While I could make a list four pages long on what they did not have for tooling, what really intrigues me, was how they had such limited knowledge. With only so many people crammed onto a small boat, there was not a lot of "networking" as we would call it today.
They had no knowledge of what the snow loads were, what wood types were strong in this new world, what storms they could expect and on and on.

I think it is ironic in this information age where questions on home construction can be answered in a matter of minutes, charts and load rations can be found online, and sawmills and machinery so plentiful that they abound in every town, that we are not building more of our own homes. While our forefathers would be drooling at what is available to us, as a whole, society is content to let contractors come in and "provide" a home for us.

I know in the 60's there was a home contruction revolution of sorts that was kind of struct down by building codes and insurance mandates, but history has a tendency it repeat itself. Do you think we are on the verge of another home construction revolution? Do you think homeowners would rather have a home built by themselves than one filled with amenities but built by someone else? Do you think the true value of real logs, real timbers and real boards will overshadow that of plastic lumber (sorry composite is the politically correct word)?

I am just curious what other people think, as obviously this forum is filled with people that have at least considered building their own home at one point or another. Personally I can hear my Greatgrandfather asking this question...

"You got all these great tools, why don't you build it yourself?"

[Ianab]

A good question...
When our great (whatever) parents build a house they used what they had and the knowledge they had. If they thought they needed a 4x12 for that beam thats what they cut / adzed out. It was no more work than cutting a 6x2 really, and the trees were free for the taking.

Later when trees cost money and houses were mass produced.. well there was a tendancy to use the least amount of wood that would hold up... So standards were needed. Most of these are Minimum standards.. if the regs say you need a 6x2 but you want to use a 8x2 it's not a problem.

We might argue about things like grading rules , but the building codes are  there to ensure than if you buy a house it's not got 4x1s for studs 
If the rules weren't there you can be sure someone would try it on and sell off a heap of crap houses that wont survive the next storm.


Ian

[Ernie]

Ian

Even with all the rules, look at all those shysters up Auckland way and all their leaky homes which gave rise to "leaky home syndrome" as if it were some human disease >:( >:(

I read in the paper today that even Fletcher's chief exec's huse suffers :D :D :D
http://stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3472178a10,00.html

[Deadwood]

I can certainly see the need for standardization and building codes, but what I was trying ask was why aren't more people building their own homes? We have the portable custom sawmills, we have forums like this where people can get their questions on timber framing or any other construction method answered, and we have a slew of people who are dying to create. I say the latter because television shows like HGTV and DIY are growing in the ratings year after year. Check out the local bookstore and you will see a rather large home construction and building section.

I think as people relinquish themselves to more office like jobs, this desire to create will only increase. I have a tradition job in a way, Manager of a Railroad Engine House, and yet there is no satisfaction. Yes I make sure 12 or so locomotives get serviced everyday and that a few are getting rebuilt, inspected and repaired, but as a Manager I actually do not do anything hands on. I would think that someone that inputs data into a computer, or crunches numbers for a living, while obviously important to the economy as well, would feel disasatisfied about working all week and not having anything tangable to show for it.

I would think building your own home would be the ultimate in creativity. To carve out your own dwelling, to use skills and thought and planning. I just wonder if that might be the next craze...kind of like home construction and rural living was in 60's?

[Tom]

Just an Opinion

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Lots of people I know would like to build their own house, but can't.  Bureaucracy gets in the way.

There was a time that you built a structure to house you and your family.  It was in your best interest to make it sound.  Granted, even then, some didn't'.   Codes and building material sizes were suggestions or offered knowledge then, not mandates.  If you built a house and it fell in, shame on you.

Then the office workers came along and not only the interest in carving a piece of wood declined but the knowledge of how, as well.

That's when somebody else had to build the homes and when the citizenry decided that the "Government" needed to protect them from shysters.  The approach has been to consider the craftsman as a crooked, money grabbing, self indulgent, snake charmer who's main purpose is to steal the poor, ignorant citizens money and provide him with an insufficient abode.  

The "citizen" has taken that a step further to include litigation.  This helps him pay for the structure by suing everyone around.   He has no responsibility in the matter because his ignorance already places him in a position of helplessness and promotes a sense of maternity on the Bureaucracy.  That is a blessing in its own right since the Bureaucracy requires the presence of ignorant and helpless people to justify its existence.  It can not, in its wisdom, distinguish between a person building his own house and one who is developing for the multitudes either.

The Government, in its short-sighted wisdom and fatherly position can't make a distinction between the ignorant Helpless and the responsible Independent so it considers everyone stupid and in the need of protection.

Because we are all considered stupid, the 'smart' legislators demand that they be in control of "everything" and govern the rules as well as allow private organizations with separate agendas to "DICTATE" and mandate the codes .  

We are sheep with no goat.  We accept no personal responsibility for our actions and don't have to.  It's always someone else's fault.  It's become the way of the world to do nothing for yourself.

You can't challenge a large company who provides building materials because you don't have a big-enough store and have no "ink" and your home grown wood is no good.  "Good" stuff comes from the store.  Lumber, steaks, milk, eggs, clothing and transportation cannot come from the individual.  The individual is not smart enough to provide these things, even  for himself.

Simply put, whether you live in a Democratic, Parliamentary, Communistic, or Dictator controlled (Governed) country, you as a citizen are stupid and deserve neither power nor the opportunity to control your own destiny.

[Quartlow]

Well said Tom

[Ianab]

Ian

Even with all the rules, look at all those shysters up Auckland way and all their leaky homes which gave rise to "leaky home syndrome" as if it were some human disease 

But imagine what they would have tried to pull if there were NO building codes 

The problem we have now is that the Gov is tightening up the regulations, making it harder to build a house yourself and more expensive to get one built as well. The problem wasn't with un-qualified people building their own houses, it was with 'qualified' builders doing 2nd rate jobs on poorly designed houses with the wrong materials.
Now if you want to do any building yourself you have to jump thru hoops and basically have a 'certified' builder looking over your shoulder  : And these were the guys that caused the problem in the first place  :-\

Ian

[brdmkr]

Amen, Tom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dana]

Well written Tom.  I should leave a copy on our local building departments cork board maybe they would finally get it. No, they get it as you said. They just have to justify their jobs.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 NO COMMENT  >:( >:(

[Gilman]

Try getting a loan and mention it is going to take two years to build the house.  Also let the building department know that the 6 month permit needs to be extended to two years.

[Bill]

Great civics lesson Tom. Of course we know the politicians know how to get votes ( they won ) and we trust them to tell us what they know is good for us.

But I'm recently early retired just to try what Deadwood said about building from scratch - good Lord willing.

So Deadwood - do you recommend buying plans or using one of those fancy computer programs that's supposed to let you design it yourself and then print out all the blueprints, paperwork and such to meet the building codes ?  . . .  or maybe keep it simple and go with an old style one room cabin if I can find a place where the zoning will permit it ???

[etat]

I built mine from the ground up.  Foundation to Rooftop, wiring, siding, brick, flooring, plumbing, everything, every nail.  only took me two years to do it and near about killed me.   Would I do it again, Yes. But I seriously think it's gonna be way more than some people would ever be able to tackle and finish,  I'm not talking about people here.

[Deadwood]

I too built my own home, but here in Thorndike the building process is a bit easier. I have only got a building permit twice. The first time was for my house and the second time was for my shop. For my house I never had anyone even ask if I had a permit, let alone about the buildings construction, while on my shop they did show up...sort of. The guy got out of his truck, took a peek around the corner and said. "I'm supposed to see it," and started chatting about my dogs. Obviously I really don't know enough about codes and the like to suggest anything to anyone else.

I will say this though. When I started building my home I was 18 years old, had very little money, and was getting married. I needed a home. I started small, kept it simple and loaded the house with details. Now that it is 12 years later, I am going to build on, but I planed for that so I'm in good shape.

If I was to offer anyone who is about to start building their new home themselves, it would be just that. Keep it managable in size, and simple. There is enough construction details to work out in simple home construction, do not tax your abilities and budget by overdoing it at the design stage.

The payoff is being able to say you live in a home you have built yourself, not in a lavish home you hope to build someday.

[Paul_H]

I'm more than happy to use what skills I was given to earn a living and pay someone else with carpentry skills to build my house.A house to me is a box with a roof that I share with my family and freinds and that makes it a home.

I am thankfull for my house but I have great memories from when there were 5 of us crammed in a trailer.I know a couple of people that took the year off of work and built their house working alongside the carpenter and they have know regrets.I also know people who have built their dream house and divorced a few short years later and the house became a lever against each other and a source of pain

My Grandparents lived in a small house no bigger than 600 sq ft and my great grandad lived in a even smaller house and had 4 kids.I think they might have been more concerned with simple survival and scratching out a living.

I think the question they might ask is "are you pulling your weight and earning your keep?"

[CHARLIE]

The initial homes built by our forefathers were usually little, and I mean little, one room buildings, with a dirt floor and no privacy.  As they moved west, some of the tiny one room homes were even completely built of sod.  As more building material became available bigger homes were built resembling those they had in Europe with more rooms. They still didn't have to contend with plumbing or electrical stuff.  Heck, even Sears Roebuck got into the action and sold homes through their catalog. People would order a home and the material was shipped to them to assemble. Many of those homes are still found in the midwest.  Most people, except the wealthy, built their own homes because they had to.

It's the difference in people that makes the world go around.  Some people love working with wood, some hate working with wood but love working with metal, some would rather have someone build their wagon or plow or tractor because they enjoy planting and raising food. I could go on and on, but not everyone has the skill to build a house nor do they want the skill to build a house because they would rather be building motors, engines, cars, airplanes etc, etc.  So they use the money they earn building and repairing engines to pay someone that likes to work with wood to build their home.  The person that earns money building the home then spends the money to buy an engine.

I enjoy working with wood but I detest construction type work.  So I'm one that would always pay to have a home built. I don't have the skills to put all the mechanics needed in a home and I really have no desire to learn them.

I agree with Ianab that building codes are made to protect people from poorly constructed homes.  Are poorly constructed homes still built?  You betcha, but it is by unscrupulous builders and inspectors.  I bet our forefathers would have loved to have had some sheets of 4' X 8' plywood.  And I'll close with this, I'm sure glad there is someone that works in the factories to make that plywood so someone else can use them to build homes for the people that have designed and manufactured the computer you are using.

Yep, it takes every kind to make the world go around.

     

[florida]

Our forefathers would think we lived like royalty.

They built their own houses because there was no other way to get one and they couldn't have affored one anyway. The houses they built were tiny by today's standards and had no frills. The wood they used was as close as the nearest tree and since processing wood took too much time they usually used the tree just as they found it. They had no plumbing, no electric, usually no windows and no floors. Beyond a simple fireplace there was no heating system. At that time virtually everyone was a farmer so they were familar with and used tools every day so building a house was well within their abilities.  The population was small and well dispersed and people usually died in the houses they built.
As more and more land was cleared and populations grew building with whole trees became harder and more expensive. As we became more prosperous people demanded larger houses with more frills. With only 5% of Americans being farmers now very few people have the hands on abilities to build today's homes with all their infastructures.
Your argument would be just as valid concerning food, clothes,  medical care and dozens of other needs of life.
You guys sawing your own lumber are just a bunch of dinosaurs and don't know it.  :D

[pigman]

Well my wife  and I built our house back in 1978. We did use store bought materials. We were so poor we could not afford to have the shack built by pros. We were farmers so I guess it was alright. We even put the outhouse inside so I guess we have an inhouse. :D  We were too dumb to know that we didn't know how to build a house. We are smart enough now not to try to build another one , so we will just die in this one. 8)

[crtreedude]

It is very common to build your own homes here. Yes, you are supposed to have architectural drawings, etc. but for modest Tico homes, no one does.

You can have a contractor build you a small home (600 square feet say) for about 7 to 8 thousand dollars. 2 to three small bed rooms, a kitchen, a small living room and a porch. In the the USA it would be a cabin.

No heating, no cooling, tin roof. Concrete walls with wood ceilings. Really basic, but very livable.

We have taken older homes and rebuilt them for about 2,000 dollars to something quite decent that I would enjoy - but they are small.

We process our own trees to build with here and do it all ourself. He hire in an electrician and the person who custom makes the windows from aluminum frames, etc.

We built a larger home on one of the fincas from scratch, we made the wood, teak, laurel, surá, ojoche, etc. 12 teak beams around a porch that you can park 4 or more pickup trucks on. It is probably about 2,500 square feet total. A huge kitchen, living room. Two bedrooms for the manager of that farm and a quest room with it's own entrance, bathroom and shower. It is really beautiful (yes, I will get pictures)

Labor and materials - probably 20,000 USD.  The wood was all processed with a alaskan sawmill and we have a 15 inch planer, etc. Everyone who sees it wants one and assumes it took more than 50,000 to build. And they would be right if you didn't own the wood.

[mometal77]

But with houses do you see the world population running out of trees?  I mean they talk about running out of oil which will never happen..  gilman that is funny.. though my parents first house built in 73 they had building in codes tack up a condemed sign on the house.  They called up the attorney general and got the guy fired.  Only a state surveyor is allowed on your property and the more people move in and build the more there is laws and attorneys to run things.  There house a log cabin they rented it out it survived a fire from tenants having newspaper on a 2000watt base board heater it extinguished itself.  I know with the way walls are built today a four or even six inch wall is no match to a 16 inch log trapping the heat in.. just my two bits..
bobby

[OneWithWood]

We built our house because at the time it was the only way we could afford to do it.  Once completed we were able to take out a mortgage and pay off the land contract for the ground.  In other words we were able to leverage our sweat equity.
Since moving into the house I have built a number of out buildings.  Part of the reason for building the buildings myself was the affordability issue and that we were not pressed for time.  I took it to another level building the barn to house my saw mill and kiln by harvesting timber on our land and milling it for the lumber to build with.  Again this is most cost effective, but the real reason I chose to go this route is that I enjoy working with my hands as well as my mind.  the bulk of the population does not share the same perspective.  To them it is hard and dirty work.  That is OK because, as Charlie so eloquently pointed out they provide services for me that I cannot due to time and willingness constraints.  It all works out.  I am happy doing what I do and it does not concern me one bit that others do not share my outlook.  Actually I would be very concerned if the bulk of the population wished to do as I do.  There simply is not enough land and resources. 
Do I take advantage of the situation?  You betcha!  8)

[DouginUtah]

I mean they talk about running out of oil which will never happen.. bobby

Bobby,

You are absolutely correct. We will never run out of oil because that last barrel of heavy, sour crude will take forever to get out of the ground. It's the cheap, light, sweet crude that is easy to get out that we are going to run out of.

Recently, in Utah a wildcatter hit it big with an estimated find of 100 million barrels.  An oil field that large would rank as one of the biggest onshore discoveries in the past 30 years.

WOOHOO! Enough oil for 5 whole days of US consumption.  :D

Let's talk again in February about the price of gasoline.  ;)

-Doug
"Anybody who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."

[crtreedude]

We run out of trees because we run out of space. For example, here it is much easier to plant a crop and immediately get a return say in about a year than to wait for a decade. You have to eat something for a decade. Food is more important than wood - unless you are trying to heat your home.

Costa Rica in that last 30 years from being nearly completely forested to only having forest in the parks. More than 70 % is deforested now.

If we take out more than we put in, eventually the well will run dry. What is refilling the oil well? Just curious. I know my car doesn't work that way. If I don't stop at the service station it sort of decides to stop running.

As much as I would like to live like our forefathers, there are a few more of us now. Not sure everyone can  have a small plot of land to raise what they need.

I once read that it takes about 12.5 acres (5 Hectares) to raise what you need per person (I have no idea if it is true mind you). The population of the world has reached a point where there is no longer enough land for everyone. We have to be efficient to feed everyone.

I think if our forefathers could see us know, perhaps they wouldn't have had so many kids!  ;) I find it hard to believe that they could imagine NYC for example.

just my dos colones

[SwampDonkey]

As much as I would like to live like our forefathers, there are a few more of us now. Not sure everyone can  have a small plot of land to raise what they need.

I once read that it takes about 12.5 acres (5 Hectares) to raise what you need per person (I have no idea if it is true mind you). The population of the world has reached a point where there is no longer enough land for everyone. We have to be efficient to feed everyone.

Well, there's more land availabe than you may think. You can have alot more than 12.5 acres if you wish. In Canada 90 % of the population live within 100 miles of the US border. Think of all that land north of there sitting idle. ;) I'll let you park a couple igloos up in Inuvik and you can live off seals, whales, muskox, walrus and polar bear meat and you and the wife can keep one another warm. ;D

[Gunny]

Swampie:

Interesting that you note the immediate availability of vast tracts of land since our kids (the youngest four are being home-educated) ran into an interesting bit of info the other day in one of their world almanacs: (Essentially) If all the people who currently inhabit the Earth were placed standing side-by-side, front-to-back (we had another description in the old Corps), they would ALL fit on the island of Jamaica.  The global map of population centers indicates just about what you mentioned.  The overwhelming majority--probably in the 90% region--of the world's population lives almost exlcusively along the shorelines of the major water routes of the globe.  Man, that sure leaves a lot of space for those of us who like to hide out in the woods!

I've been trying for years to get the wife to move back to my ancestral (Mom's parents) lands in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia just for that reason.  But she has far too many roots in these parts.  Such is life on this very uncrowded planet.