What to do what all this Cherry.

Henry-Adams · April 28, 2005, 10:23:30 AM

OK a quick background. My partner and I bought a Woodmizer LT40 hydraulic about 9 months ago and our business has been a bit on the slow side. We haven't been out pounding the pavement to develop new business but have tried to gain some experience on the mill first. We've done a number of small jobs and all of our customers have been very pleased with the product. Word of mouth is starting to get around and I have no doubt that business is going to pick up. We've thought that it was more important to start out slowly, learn as much as we can, and make sure we do it right than it was to put profits first. Those I'm sure will come soon enough.

So with that said. We were down at my parent's Quarter Horse farm in south central Ohio last week doing a little ground hog hunting when my parents asked me what they should do "with all this cherry". It seems that they have a lot of cherry that they want to get rid of as the leaves are toxic to the horses. They said that they had been offered $2500 per 10,000 bd/ft by a logger in the area. I told them that the price seemed way to low to me but I would take a look in the morning at what they had.

Now I've hunted and ratted around on this farm most of my life but I never bothered to really look at their property from a sawmilling aspect. Oh sure I knew that most of the woods are old growth and that mixed with the alfalfa fields make for some outstanding deer and turkey hunting, but that's how I've always looked at it.

So in the morning I head out to look at with they have and see what we could do about it. That's when I nearly fell down at what I found. They have easily over 300 cherry trees that they want to remove, all of which are 18 inches in diameter or better. They are easy to get to and they could be harvested and moved with the heavy equipment that is already on the farm. I live about 450 miles away but moving the mill to their place isn't going to be a problem. So the question is this. What would you all do if you were in the same position? And if you were going to harvest the trees and mill them yourself where would you market the lumber? I know we are sitting on a small gold mine but I'm not sure what the best course of action is.

As you can tell we are new at this and could really use your help.

Oh and the ground hog hunting went great.

Doc · April 28, 2005, 10:34:29 AM

Now this is from the perspective of someone who has as much or less experience as you, but has read post after post here.

Fromt eh sound of it you are looking at weekd of felling, logging/forwarding, milling. You have a wood variety that will command a healthy price varying greatly on the current value added to the lumber.

In your situation I would look for a buyer or buyers of the lumber, and find out what specs they want it cut to (milled specs...not log specs). build a kiln, or buy one, and mill to those specs. maybe look at a low cost planer that will serve to get the job done and not cost everything you are going to make off the job, and add aas much value to the lumber as you can before you sell it.

Cherry lumber should be an easy sell from what I have read here, and if you choose to mill it and stockpile it you still can't go wrong.

I could be wrong, and this is from another novices perspective, but from what I know of wood and what I have read here this is the information I have gleened from these guys who have been doing this for the biggest part of their working lives. the more value you can add to the finished product the more it is worth.

Doc

Buzz-sawyer · April 28, 2005, 10:54:22 AM

Hi there!
All the loggers I come into contact with including myself (part time logger) buy by the 1000 bdft price......... so the ,"$2500 per 10,000 bd/ft by a logger " seems a little odd.
Remember , wood on the stump is a whole lot less than cut lumber. At the price you show that is .25 a foot. And your right that is low.....if it is clear straight cherry. On the other hand cherry goes for that price for blocking in some areas , if poor. ;)

What would I do ? I would mill it and find a buyer for green cherry and sell part of it right from the land where I cut it , then I would haul the best of it home to air dry for future sales and projects.

GHRoberts · April 28, 2005, 11:54:53 AM

The price of choice Cherry saw logs (16" & larger 10' & longer, clean 4 sides, no splits or defects) delivered to the mill in NY is $2100/mbf. It may be that the offer was intended to sound high ($2500/mbf), but was intended to be written up low ($250/mbf).

300 trees @ 200bdft each (low estimte perhaps) is about 60,000 bdft. That is a big pile of lumber if you don't have a buyer.

I would look for a buyer first.

I would like some 200bdft of 8/4 curly if you decide to sell small lots.

KURT_STURZ · April 28, 2005, 12:34:38 PM

Hi Henry,
What are you trying to do? Make us all sick? 300+ Cherry trees waiting to be processed. First of all, I'll pay $1.25/bf on the stump all day long. I'm sure that some of those trees will be veneer quality. If they are you're looking at $7.00+/bf. Please don't cut those up. Get a good forest management company involved. They will make you alot more money than they'll cost you. Hope you have alot of fun cutting all that Cherry.
Kurt

J_T · April 28, 2005, 01:01:29 PM

I think there is a thread some where about cherry leaves ??? They are only poisinous when the tree is down and the leaves wilt also walnut . I cut and sell my good stuff anywhere from a dollar bf to two dollar a bf and mill the rest . Nothern cherry and walnut I'm told brings more 8)

Doc · April 28, 2005, 01:22:06 PM

Quote from: KURT_STURZ on April 28, 2005, 12:34:38 PM
Hi Henry,
What are you trying to do? Make us all sick? 300+ Cherry trees waiting to be processed. First of all, I'll pay $1.25/bf on the stump all day long. I'm sure that some of those trees will be veneer quality. If they are you're looking at $7.00+/bf. Please don't cut those up. Get a good forest management company involved. They will make you alot more money than they'll cost you. Hope you have alot of fun cutting all that Cherry.
Kurt

Now there is something to read closely! I think I would start making phone calls now and see what comes about from it. At least sell the veneer stuff off and you still get the tops from those and the rest to saw up for sellable lumber.

Doc

cut2size · April 28, 2005, 04:06:46 PM

I would agree with Kurt. Cut the veneer logs as long as you can without defect and sell them for veneer logs. A local logger told me last week that he was getting $8000 per 1000bd ft for clear cherry from a log broker in Lewisburg WV. They already have buyers and you would have a hard time sawing and selling for half that much. When I sell cherry logs they can be as small as 8" in diameter on the small end and even junk goes for more than $1.00 a bd ft.
David

SW_IOWA_SAWYER · April 28, 2005, 05:00:21 PM

"$8000 per 1000bd ft" in log form WOW that seems steep but I guess anything is possible. I wonder what the price at the finish end is gonna end up. I think I might have to take a second on the house for that stuff............ :D

Engineer · April 28, 2005, 05:00:59 PM

$2500 for 10k board feet is a decimal place off. Local mills in NY and VT are buying at the mill for between $2000 and $6000 per thousand, veneer being the high end and #2 common the low end. Even "nearly junk" is getting 40 to 50 cents a board foot in the log. They process it and sell it to flooring mills for "bar grade" T&G flooring.

If I had a bit more time in my schedule, I'd hook up my mill and join you out there. I'm always looking for cherry.

Seriously, though - get a good forester out there to look at it, and sell it right off the land. If you have 60,000 board feet sitting there, you should be able to net well over a hundred thousand dollars at common grade prices, and I'd bet a lot of those butt logs are veneer grade.

Ron Wenrich · April 28, 2005, 05:08:15 PM

Here's what log prices are at one mill in NY:

http://www.wightmanlumber.com/logprices.htm

We don't even mess with sawing cherry. We found that we get more by selling the logs than we do for sawing the wood. By the time you find a market and do all the work involved, it may be easier to market the logs.

Of couse, you can save all those crotches to saw up and market. No one will pay much for those.

Larry · April 28, 2005, 05:49:17 PM

I'm glad you posted that Ron...I got a current price list from the Love Box Company out of Fayetteville Arkansas last week. Price range was $750/mbf for #1 down to $300/mbf for #3 logs...little more than what your mill is paying but in the same ballpark. They didn't have published prices for the good stuff.

I'm not very educated on all the log grades some of the mills use...looks to me like there is a lot of room for negotiation and horse trading there. I would think something like what Henry has stumbled across might be the place to get a real expert involved.

oakiemac · April 28, 2005, 06:33:46 PM

I agree with what has been said. I'd sell the veneer and better sawlogs. Save just what you can handle to saw by your self. look in you area for lumber brokers-concentration yards to market your green lumber. But keep in mind these guys can be picky. They want minimum of 3mbf of one species (shouldn't be a problem for you) and they want it sawed in the last couple of weeks or sooner. I know the market for cherry has went down in recent months.
You might want to think about bringing in some help to assist you in the sawing. You will also need a fork lift to move bundles of lumber onto a truck and metal banding to band the lumber.

If all this fails then just bring a load of that cherry up here to Michigan and we will find a use for it. ;D

maple flats · April 28, 2005, 08:11:23 PM

I think you also want to seal the ends with anchor seal to keep the grade, as you cut the trees. Must be done rather soon as I understand.

Ohio_Bill · April 28, 2005, 09:40:54 PM

I have found that I get more out of the top logs by selling them in log form . I sell a lot of lower graded toWillis Lumber in Washington Courthouse Ohio which would be close to your location . Willis Lumber will buy from small band saw mills like us . They have a WEB site . Willislumber.com

Henry-Adams · April 29, 2005, 01:58:37 AM

Please help us. As I thought this is a small Gold Mine and could put my parents "over the top" when it comes to their retirement.. Please point us in the right direction.

Ron Wenrich · April 29, 2005, 06:03:45 AM

I thought everyone has been trying to do that. If your 300 tree count is right and your diameter estimation is right, the logger seems to be too low. Also, if you log it yourself, sell the veneer.

You have several options.

1. Get a forester in to mark the timber and put it up for bids.

2. Cut and skid all the logs yourself and sell the logs for veneer and sawlogs.

3. Cut and skid all the logs yourself, sell the veneer and better sawlogs and saw the remainder yourself.

The more labor input you have, the more money potential there is. But, you get to a point where your labor isn't worth enough to outweigh the increased income. Law of diminishing returns.

Option 1 gives a decent income and you can go fishing. Option 2 and 3 will take a lot more time and you have a lot more risk involved. So, we can't make the decision for you, you have to do that yourself.

Doc · April 29, 2005, 03:06:40 PM

Here is help for you. Take option one from above. Contact me when the logging out is done and you are left with the pile of tops and discard logs that you want to saw up, and I will take time to come help saw it. I won't work for free, but I will work relatively cheap (considering what you will be able to make off what is left).

Do option one! This is a small price to pay (the foresters fees) in regards to the returns you will get for doing it. Not doing it will ruin the value of the whole thing, and I say that because I believe what the other guys are telling you is gospel here. I doubt a single one would steer you wrong.

Doc

GHRoberts · April 29, 2005, 04:28:24 PM

I don't know how fast cherry grows but ...

It might be better to find a home for the livestock and let the better trees grow a bit more.

There is an exporter who from time to time has sawn logs to sell on woodweb, $3500-5000/cubic meter. He custom saws to his buyers preferred thickness. I expect he buys a lot also. I expect he has preferences about lengths. I will post a link but I don't know anything more about him ...

http://www.horizonwood.com/english/index.html