I'm thinking about being a DAY TRADER on stock market

[SPIKER]

 ??? ???

OK HERES THE DEAL:

this past month and or more I've been mostly laid up with my back out bad, first 2~3 weeks I could do little more than lay flat on my back with my feet up in the air.   watched a lot of UPSIDE DOWN TV (should have actually turned the TV over hehehe)   anyhow

I finally can set for a few min up to maybe an HR at best throughout the day now. so this past week (Friday) I signed up for a SCOTT TRADE on-line trading account and put in $15,000 in there.   SO FAR (knock on wood) I've done pretty good from watching the NEWS and MSNBC and using a little common sense.   I'm up to just about $18,000 now in under a full weeks time.       Now I'm just tinkering at it really but wanted people to know that even the foolhardy can make some $ in a market like it is today...    Not selling anything to anyone but if you are into the market I can maybe trade some tips with you via emails and or I.M on here.  If you do decide to sign up for an account don't for get me as I can get 3 free trades (only $21.00 but hey they are free ya know.)   

just for peoples help I do a lot of research on every trade b4 putting any $ into it.   and wanted to provide some hints.

1. buy what you know. (watch the company look back at least 15 years if you plan on holding anything very long)

2. don't risk what you can't afford to loose.  (I can't afford to loose all $15.000 I put in but by only getting small amounts of different companies I'm diversified enough that I won't loose all of that)

3. the wilder the swings a stock is making the more chance you can make a buck as long as it is trading LOWER than it has been in years AND the research shows nothing is really wrong with the company other than market swings.

4.  Watch NEWS and TV shows and Trade mags.  lots of time the there may be a local company that has some new invention that has not reached national news yet, if they are in stock market then buying some of them at the current rate is wise as when the news hits national level chances are 100's of other people are going to see this new invention and want in on it by calling their stock brokers and telling them to buy a bunch of stock.  well that drives the prices UP and you then sell at the higher price. 

5. if you want LONG TERM money buy a strong national company ASAP as the market is at or near 20 yr lows right now.   (I bought Ford and GM at they 20 year low and held onto them just 3 days b4 selling)   which leads me to #6.

6. when you buy a stock determine if you want fast $ or long term security's. (in todays market I'm after fast Cash)  so once I bought a stock I determine how much I want to make and put a SELL order in for it and set a LIMIT PRICE and say 30%to the price I paid (1.3 x price I paid) and put that amount into the LIMIT, box under the SELL box. and I usually sell all or nothing as I don't want to have to track a lot of stocks...

7. TRACK A LOT OF STOCKS there are auto tracking abilities on the site that lets you track a bunch of different stocks.   this way there are fast references to a company you been watching which shows you that maybe the price is dropping fast (watch the % up/down) which will bring the stock back into fast light for you.   then Buy when it has been dropping "AFTER RE-CHECKING IT OUT)  don't assume old research is still valid!


OK maybe I made the post longer than I needed but figured these are some fast common things to help people make some $.   todays market is prime for people to make fast cash also for people to buy & hold long term as so many companies are trading at or near 20+ year lows...

so if you want to try it out there are several LOW COST trading places you can GOOGLE them but beware there are a lot of BS out there that can cost you.  one such critter is a company advertising 100's of free trades. (fine print on the web site is you have to invest LOTS if money and makes 100's of trades a month to get the ave trade down to a reasonable cost...)

I'm using Scott Trade and am Happy (ave $7.00 per trade/order for stocks over 4.00 each.)  so if you want them tell them you were referred by me :D ;)   Other brokerages can be upwards of 15+ per trade I know as I helped my OLD boss trade a bunch 4~5 years back.
there was one I googled that looked good that was nearly free but I didn't look into it much

Mark M

[SPIKER]

OH if you want to PLAY at it with a chance to win risking nothing there is a STOCK MARKET GAME going on where I started and have been using it for research and price conformation vs my actual stock portfolio.

i'm SPIKER on this site and can refer anyone if you want on send me a PM.   grand prize is 50Gs here I believe.
http://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com

Mark M 8)

[Ron Wenrich]

Have you ever looked at the commodity markets?  You can make money in either a rising or falling market, and you can also swing trade in a flat market.  A lot more leverage, but you have to put up more front money.  Commodities also have fewer markets, so there is less to pay attention to, and you can only have the contract for a limited time.

One thing I have found out in all the different types of investing I have done is that I have never made money with a broker telling me what to buy or sell.  I've always done the best on my own. 

I would also suggest you look at some books on how to read certain market indicators.  You always want to be with the market. 

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

How adventurous of you, Spiker!

Back during the internet bubble,  two of my brothers really raked it in
day trading.  They did it full time for a period of about 18 months for
one and three years for the other.  That's why they both have more
gray hair than me - their older brother.  Back then the IPOs are what
really brought in the bucks.  Selling Priceline.com on the first day of
trading was the best money I personally ever made on a small investment.
I got 100 shares of that IPO.  It think one of the brothers got 600 shares.
Of course, he was working about 40 accounts scattered across E-trade and
some other platforms to increase the odds of getting those subscriptions.
Fortunately everyone in the family got out before the market headed south.

Recently, Cramer on Mad Money and some others have said that the volatility of
the next year or so will be favorable to fast trades.   I may crank up an
account again myself.  Watch out,  however,  the other shoe may not have
dropped.  A buy that you intend to be short term profit making could fall and
keep your capital tied up for six months.  With the market being depressed as it
is, you would get your money back and then some, but you would not be liquid
for a while.

[SPIKER]

Hi guys:

Ron:

I have not looked into the commodities mkt just yet as that seems to need a bit more research & learning how to maneuver in there.   I will maybe get started learning more in that arena as well as money mkts.
have you got any good on-line ref books to look at about commodities??? 
I was thinking about doing some more research on a few things that I can do to better predict what coming markets will bare.   I think that (beans corn wheat) all have ways to speculate "the years crop vs supply & demands..".  I know profits can be made but like you said takes more time and training & watching to be more of a sure thing vs simply guessing at it.   I also think that profits while probably more stable are lower overall when you have the market variables we now have...

Phil:

Yes I was first ready to get into the market back in mid 90's too with internet stocks but at the time there wasn't really a GOOD way to learn or in-expensive trading companies like e-trade & scottrade ect.   lots more learning was needed on MY part.   I was talked into getting into it about 3 months prior to the big crash.   One of my on-line friends had bought a caddy esclade from proceeds from one sale!   He ended up selling a brick/mortar business and investing it all into the mkt.  I was in contact with firm to put in a bunch of cash when it started to bust...   My friend lost close to 300K in 2 or 3 weeks :9 almost lost his home.  had to start up new business and is back making money the hard way but I think he still invests in the markets...   So lots of HIGH losses can happen very fast if you are heavily invested in wrong kind of business, I tend to stay/invest in the brick/mortar & production businesses not the intellectual businesses...

(Phil) sent ya a PM too.

Mark M

[Rocky_J]

I pulled my Roth IRA out of a brokerage account in February and opened a self directed account at TD Ameritrade. Free trades for the first month, then $10 per trade. Some decent online tools as well. I'm not very good at it, as I've managed to lose money on good stocks through poor trading decisions. I've lost a few dollars on VZ, NOOF, GRMN, AIRV and took a huge hit on NVDA. My $12K is down to about $9500 right now but I'll get better at it. I have already put in my maximum $5K for 2008 but on Jan 1 I'll be able to add more to the account.

A couple of stocks on my watch list that have done exceptionally well this week are BAC and NLY. I've been watching both of them for months waiting for them to bottom and both of them showed great signs of recovery in the last few days. BAC jumped over 20% on Wednesday and made more gains today. Went from $18 to $25 in two days.

[Rocky_J]

Oh, and I've tried to stick with well managed companies with little or no debt and sound management. But good companies do not always equal good stocks.

I've tried day trading a little with my GRMN holdings since it's a fairly volatile stock, but I zigged when I should have zagged and missed the runup from $42-$50. Then I bought back in on a dip only to watch it fall back to $43 again. If only there were some way of knowing which way the stock was going tomorrow, then I'd be in great shape.  ??? 

[SPIKER]

Rocky:

sounds like what I did when I started trading using the fake money in the wallstreetsurvivor game.  I got valuable lessons with out any real $ lost.  also taught me how to research stuff better.   

the 10 trades are higher than most, maybe you should move the account over to different brokerage firm.   

I'm using scottrade, which is pretty much a straight 7.00 trade, (unless you go for penny stocks where a % of the trade value is added in)  I have had one trade cost me 11.45 from a high quantity penny stock.

When stocks are UP/DOWN so much in short period, you can use LIMIT BUY & SELL options and set a price that you are willing to pay/sell the stocks for.   use CHARTS also to gauge WHAT you should set those prices at.   Don't just look at last few days look at trends years back to determine what the stock WAS worth vs what you will offer to PAY for it...
  I have 4 or 5 BUYs waiting that I may end up canceling as I was too late to hit the LOW trend.    They will tie up the money you have in you're account.   If you cancel the buy it will cost you the trade commission of (7.00 in scottrade) price so don't abandon the stock too quickly as it may drop back those 3~4 bucks rather fast.   

If you do want to sign up ;I'll send ya a referral, you and I both will get 3 free trades.

also watch out for the one company offering 100 free trades, as there is some fine print you have to stay with them so long and make at least A lot of trades/month to get them at a good price and stay with them for X long or else you end up paying a hefty penny for each trade (read a lot more than most) and possible early termination fees...

Mark M

[Rocky_J]

I'm familiar with limit vs market orders. I've purchased and read about 15 books on stock market investing over the last 6-8 months (got a frequent shopper card from books-a-million). I made mostly good choices but used poor judgement on timing, including getting anxious when the price dropped.

And the difference between $7 vs. $10 per trade is negligible when broken down to cost per share (about 3 cents per share on the size trades I've been making). I like the online trading tools and research tools available at TD Ameritrade, although Scot Trade was my second place company when I was shopping for a brokerage house. eTrade has some good feedback from traders but I'm wary of them due to their poor management and sketchy financial status.

And Jim Cramer has some good general knowledge but his specific stock recommendations are crap. I picked up some good pointers from one of his books and email newsletters but also watched him completely blow a bunch of stock picks. I don't even read the emails from TheStreet.com any more, I have about 300 unopened in my inbox.

[SPIKER]

thanks for info on Jim cramer:  I just made some investing based on what he was saying about a SOLAR company ( SOL ) is trade and watching 3 or 4 others in similar industry.  (looking at getting into utilities that are switching to green requirements based on states saying they have to buy XX% amount of GREEN energy buy year 20XX.   there fore the LONG TERM commitments I'm making are towards those efforts, mainly due to government subsidizing and requirements..   also fannie may (FNM) and Freddie mac (FRE) are 2 I bought early am today but was a day late at getting them at a 30yr low.   they will rebound a lot over next week or so

EDIT IN to RON:

Ron I been taking some quick looks at the commodities MKT since posting above (few hrs worth is all) but see a very strong trend of downward movement across the board there.   this means there may be some easy $ to be made trading with it buy doing a little SELLING SHORT & BUY to COVER trading ;)

for those that don't know what "SELL SHORT" & "BUY to COVER" trading is it is "SELLING something you're don't own YET" 

for instance say XYZ stock is dropping fast from say 25.00/share.  you put in a SELL SHORT to sell 100 shares of XYZ and sell it for say 20.00/share.  Then you have to "BUY to COVER" that XYZ stock sale by actually BUYING the 100 shares that you didn't own to begin with but sold it anyway.    (you have a short time to actually BUY to COVER the 100 stocks you just "SELL SHORT") Basically you are HOPING that the XYZ stock keeps falling down so you can PROFIT by "buying to cover" the sale of the 100 stocks, hopefully at say 15.00/share and you will have made 5.00/share by doing it.
Mark M

EDIT IN TO LARRY:

Larry  Ya I had similar problems first time around in 401K  I could have managed it MUCH better than letting them do it for me. but I learned a valuable lesson (not one worth the 1000's I lost but worth something).   If it can be done by me I know I will pay more attention to detail and will be able to GET OUT faster than someone will when they only look at it 1 time a quarter!    I can cut my losses or increase my profits daily!   I had over 3 years working deposited some 13~14K into a 401K, when I left I ended up with less than 5K !!! due to poor management and the fact I didn't read my statements completely and found that when I had to GET OUT due to getting different job I didn't have a choice but to sell when the stocks I had invested in had dropped that much...  actually they did it for me... :(  so now I'll do it for myself! ;)

[Larry]

In this day and age the only one looking out for you is...you.  I figured out years ago I could loose just as much money as the Dean Witter Reynolds broker (bought by Morgan Stanley) did on my IRA.  I traded quite frequently for awhile...one pc running the ticker while the other was on Scot Trade or Fidelity, waiting to pull the trigger.  Just like fishing I like to talk about the big trades...and won't mention the bad days.  It's a full time job and the excitement level can build quickly, especially when your short or on margin.  I'm sure iffen your good you could get a job making jillions running a fund for the big boys.  I'm not making jillions if that tells you anything, but I still trade some.

Right now I have a convoluted but size-able investment in Merrill Lynch I'm closely watching.  It's a Trust Preferred Security with a coupon of 7% interest.  Been kicking out payments like clockwork for a long time.  The price has dropped considerable in the past few months pushing the yeild north of 12%.  Is it because of market scare of another belly up firm?  What do the big boys know?

Ron brought up the commodity markets...spent some time there also...hold on tight as it is a really a fast ride.

Spiker, I invested in a quasi green company called Calpine.  They generated electricity from geothermal out on the left coast somewhere.  There stock took off like a rocket and I did make money as I sold after the splits.  Got caught few years ago when all of a sudden they went belly up.  There stock still trades but is quite close to a penny stock.

[Rocky_J]

The worst part about Jim Cramer is how he completely avoids mentioning any stock that he's misjudged. Do some searches at TheStreet.com on GRMN and NVDA. On Garmin (when it dropped to $40 on a mixed quarterly report) he said he would "stay far away from this stock". 2 weeks later it was over $50. Jim hasn't mentioned it since.

NVDA was a 5 star rated stock with lots of accolades. I bought it at $23.75 and it had dropped to about $20 and I was waiting on an expected stellar quarterly report to boost it back up into positive territory. Shorts were less than 3% on this stock when NVidea released poor numbers after hours on a Friday. Monday morning it opened at $14 and it's now about $11. See how much coverage Mr. Jim Cramer gave that stock in the last week after he recommended it so highly. 

[SPIKER]

Rocky:  sounds like some stock I might be interested in going to do some looking into it.  nvidia is great vid card mfg. used in most high end PC systems and laptops as well as some gaming consoles that is one thing that can happen though,  one idiot says something bad and it can cause a rats from the sinking ship even though it is solid company with good quarterly statements

also I tend to visit the companies that I'm looking at buying stock in. even for short term gains or long term holdings.   I look at quarterly statements announcements and news listed at the company web sites/hq not just what SOMEONE said about them../

after looking some at NVDA nvidia I think I might look at doing a bit of buying on it.   one thing is lots of companies are getting ready to announce quarterly sales and people get frightened then.  if sales are up/down ect...  I see they have SPLIT (backwards) several times which is a good indicator the company is trying to get it's shares back into it's own hands.

HOWEVER when reading company news briefing they have some disturbing news regarding 2nd quarter profits, and the fact that the last generation of chip set dies had some problems. this is why the stock dropped a LOT in the last week or so...   
Something CRAMER saw someplace may have been why he said to stay away??    It is hard to find problems when stocks are high but if you find them you can still make $ selling short on them when they are getting ready to take the hit!
ALSO I found this "Next Inning Technology Research " said nvidia was at a turning point in june...  which is one of the largest subscription services for high tech stocks traders. (Pay for info) so they may have HELPED turn the price as everyone in mid jun dumped the stock...

NOW   I think that at the $11.36 price it could be a good buy & sell quick & maybe even good as a buy & hold at the price ($11.36 end today.)




Mark M

[CLL]

Had a buddy day trade back when high tech stocks were the thing. Lost $55,000 in 3 weeks. Not me, I like to look at what I own. Land, cattle, antique cars ect.

[Handy Andy]

  Spiker, isn't there a good chiropractor in your area?  I made a few trips to one last winter and I feel better than I have in years.  He'd like me to come in once a week, but there's just too much to do this time of year.  ANd  I haven't thrown my back out.  Jim

[SPIKER]

Andy: I have 2 herniated and one ruptured disks in my back, the fragments from the one are pressing into my S1 & S2 nerve bundles.   every doc I saw said don't let cyropractor go pushing around as I could end up with one less leg permatly.  surgical is my only real option as it loks now.  2 different docs with several options...   
1.decompress the disks, and remove all fragments.
2.and or decompress disks remove fragments and fuse L3L4  decompress only L4L5.   

#1 was what they have been saying for years but now since the layup and added severe pain in back they added the possibility of fusing  some of the vertibre to help with the back pain.

for 3 weeks now I couldn't set or stand more than a few short min.   99.8% of my time was spent flat on floor with feet up on couch, taking many different types of pain killers.   took a back cortisone shot and got doc to give flexerile which has helped.   going to surgeon monday to get news after having MRI and get set for date of operation...   this has been a 15+ year ongoing problem for me...

mark M

[WildDog]

Spiker, congrats on your investment returns so far, I have had $10,000 in a stockbrockers account for about 4wks but I havn't had the courage to jump in yet...mainly because this money was set aside for a new kitchen and I really had to do some sweet talking with my wife to play with it.

[Ron Wenrich]

I really never took to much time reading about news.  Most of the news is irrelevant, and most of the time you can't take much action in it.  I've always found that when the news is made public, others have already made it in their market position.  You're a little late in coming to the table.  You might be able to get some crumbs, but you probably missed the best opportunity in the market.

Market gurus sell advertising.  To do that, they have to come on and give what they think are hot tips.  They tell you and something like 20 million other people.  If enough people jump on board, that will move a stock.  Its the economic principle of too much money chasing too few goods which results in inflation, or in this case, a higher price.  So, what they tell you often becomes self fulfilling prophecy just due to shear numbers and flock mentality.

Unexpected news will push markets in certain directions.  That's why you need stops.  But, a market can blow right past your stop and you won't make any money even with a well positioned stop.  Been there, done that.  Real time trading is much different than paper trading.

I feel that all the current news is reflected in the market price.  I have always used market charting as a way of telling me where there are good turning points in any particular market.  All you are looking for is overbought or oversold conditions to help you find likely spots for turning points.  I would say that right now many commodities are overbought and many stocks are oversold.  

[SPIKER]

WILDDOG:  last 2 weeks have been GREAT for small investors using some common sence investing.  do you're research on anything you buy though.  watch it once bought set a sell limit and move on earn 1), 20 or 30% & get out...

Ron:
while true you are picking crumbs watching news & information and the likes but, I won't balk at 5~10% for 2 or 3 days worth of money being held up ;)   look into the news happening now ON-LINE which can get you several hours advance warning on what is going or maybe on the daily news at normal hrs, you may have story 2~3 hrs early making quick choices can net few quick bucks..   I'm still not an actual DAY TRADER yet, I AM working my way closer.  I'm keeping stuff 2~3 days at a time to make higher % in most cases...

Mark M

[moonhill]

I have heard trading can be stressful, you might want to invest in a cat as well, heard they increase life by 40%.   Tim B.

[SPIKER]

I have heard trading can be stressful, you might want to invest in a cat as well, heard they increase life by 40%.   Tim B.

:D   I guess that is so ya can kick the cat when things go down?  lo' (J/K I like cats)
I got a 70 lb 1 yr old lab/husky mix puppy that is lots of stress adder on top of 13yr relationship with my woman.   market dropped a bit for me still up ~3grand in 4 days so doing OK still...   More than I can make working around here...   that is on a 17G investment

I still say watching NEWS can be great benefits for instance Fannei May and Freddie Mac (FNM FRE) both hit record lows due to the situation, but have re-bounded nicely.  I got the info about the crash on these on the noon news...   while lots of people will be saying AHHH they are going bankrupt!  (when was last time FEDS let a company worth billions go bankrupt?)

  I will be selling mine off sometime around Tuesday pm I think they should be up 30% by then each.

mark

[tcsmpsi]

I could mention a thing or two about the federal government and the markets.  But, I know from experience it would have little meaning.

Most everyone knows more than I do about them.  I found out all the bottom line I needed to know, after 15 yrs of litigation.

I'm glad it works well for some. 

I'm quite content in rolling up the dimes and quarters I save up, from time to time.   :D

[Ron Wenrich]

  (when was last time FEDS let a company worth billions go bankrupt?)

 

Bear Sterns.  The Fed propped them up, then forced their sale to JP Morgan at $2/share, later upped to $10/share.  Their home office building was worth more than the $2/share.  Buyout price was $1.1 billion.

[SPIKER]

that is why I'm selling mine off after it rebounded ;)

I was hoping to have the deposits in there to prevent the free ride problem Friday but the bank and scottrade didn't get it worked out with transfers so I went to bank and switched $ at the bank into the already set up scottrade accessed account...

I also had to get an old stock portfolio password fixed and I'd be sending over some old insurance stock that I got when it went public. (I was a patron of the insurance company)   As suck received like 24 shares...   not much but at least I'll get access easier now...   Also taking paper stock certificates I had for long time to put those into the account...  going to start wheeling & dealing ;) 8)

Mark

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

SPIKER

I have to admit that when I heard about the Fannie and Freddie
bad press, I knew there would be a terrific opportunity there.  This
first one came even quicker than I thought it would.

You got me a wantin' to re-enter the fray!