A tree surgeon friend of mine gave me a call yesterday...Seems a dropped a pretty nice black walnut the other day and couldn't see blocking it up for firewood so he gave me a call. It's now in the back of my truck in two 6'+ sections awaiting my sawmill. They're not huge...one is 20" on the big end, 17" on the small and the other is 17" to 15". There's between 2" and 3" of sapwood around the dark heartwood.
My question is, how should I cut this stuff to get the nicest wood, and stuff that will dry straight? I'm assuming I want to end up with boards that have no sapwood on them? Is it going to be ok just flat-sawing this or should I try to quarter-saw it, (though its not that big so that would be tricky). I've got a couple nice logs here and I don't want to waste it.
When it gets light out I'll post a couple photos of them.
I have sawn a lot for woodworkers. Flat saw it. The best money is in the thick stock. Don't worry about the sapwood. If someone does not like it, they can cut it out. For every one who doesn't want sapwood, there is another that loves the color and contrast. I would saw the best part of the log as 6/4 (1 & 5/8"). That is great for table tops. You could also saw some 8/4 slabs from the best part, too. Cut the lower grade part of the log at 4/4 (1 & 1/8"). It is easier to work around the defects in 4/4.
You might think about choosing the best face and saw through and through leaving the live edge. Then, scrape off the outer bark with a draw knife. The live edge looks great on small tables, and you can always edge it off later if you don't want the live edge.
The bark is thick. Plan to make thicker slabs.
If this is your first walnut, watch as you pull boards. The wood will be olive grean just for a second.
You don't see sap wood on store bought lumber because they steam it to turn it all uniformly dark. Unsteamed walnut will be lighter color and more grain pattern.
Guys building reproduction antique furniture will want walnut that's not been steamed.
In short, keep the sap.
I generally edge light, leaving a good bit of bark on odd shaped pieces. Otherwise, you end up throwing away a lot of good wood.
You could make a couple of mantle pieces. Good length for that.
All that they said is true, but at the end of the day, I would just add, that it's hard to mess up milling walnut. It's a pretty easy-going wood, and it's hard to ruin it with a sawmill.
I second (third?) keeping the sapwood on. It is more wood, and it doesn't hurt anything.
It's also fairly simple to dry. Just follow the standard axioms of wood drying, and walnut will do it. No tricks, really.
I just flat saw it 6/4 and 8/4 depending on what the boards are looking like as they come off the log. My goal is to create good book matched sets. Then I just sticker it and stack it. As Okra said, walnut is very forgiving and hard to mess up. Good luck!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14435/Walnut_PW_Log_1_1_web%7E0.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14435/Walnut_PW_Stack_2_web.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14435/Walnut_PW_Stack_3_web.jpg)
Thanks for the advise. First thing I would have done would be to remove the sapwood. Glad I asked.
Here's a photo of the two logs:
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Fbw.JPG&hash=64132f496cd71aa04416d0ca7694a2748c61684b)
I milled out my first walnut yesterday, low grade log. read the log , look it over real well. Customer wanted 1 in thick boards, I advised him that with the multiple cracks that standard boards would be very poor. He said he picked it up for free, I advised him that a mantle would be a decent money maker. I told him aprox value of a single mantle and went with that plan. One decent mantle, and one OK half log style, came out of this log. I like to use sidewalk chalk to mark things, then mark my planned cuts. Its cheap and works well.
I wish it was my log.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26102/100_0836.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26102/100_0837.JPG)
As with any log, Cut the low grade spots into thick stock such as mantles or bench stock. The good stuff go 2 in thick with live edge. Stay atleast one inch away from the pith in all directions, most say 2 inch. The core piece is prone to twist ect. 3 to 4 inches in from the outside, take a slice at 3 to 4 in thick and slow dry it. Gunstocks bring good money but need to have premium piece. Take a few hours and look at what is online for bowl turning, gunstocks, mantles, table tops, counters. This will help you, Knowing the market before you cut the first cut . Sawing general box store lumber is one thing, sawing hobby workers material is another. Hobby workers buy stuff they cant get anywhere, and most are willing to pay for it, and drive an hour to hour and a half to get it too.
Quote from: Woodsrover on December 07, 2012, 12:56:45 PM
Thanks for the advise. First thing I would have done would be to remove the sapwood. Glad I asked.
Here's a photo of the two logs:
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Fbw.JPG&hash=64132f496cd71aa04416d0ca7694a2748c61684b)
Your logs look nicer than Shelbycharger's. ;D You should do fine with them. Do try to eliminate your pith from your keeper boards. The pith piece, if you center the "bulls-eye" of the pith in both ends, can be used for a mantel or whatever IF it dries straight, which it may or may not.
Fortunately, the pith in walnut does not crack like oak and cherry.
WIwoodworker,I must comment on your fine stacking job. At first I thought something was growing out of the log. ;D Than I realized that was stickers. Good luck everyone with the walnut.
Thank you cfarm. I think there's a mental health disorder or two associated with my stacking preferences but I like it.
I do too. It immediately caught my eye. smiley_thumbsup
Got this stuff slabbed up this morning. The smaller one I cut at 6/4 and the larger one 8/4. Wife wants a 6'x3' dinning room table with a heavy top. Guess this wood is spoken for!
Just like Bibbyman said, this wood is very olive color right now though the ends are very dark. Interesting. I used a new band and it was very easy to saw and had no tension to speak of. Went nice and slow and took my time. Though it was yard-wood I found no metal in it at all. I washed each plank as it came off the mill. These Timberwolf bands have left staining in some oak I cut early this year and didn't want to chance that.
Anyway, here are a couple of photos:
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Fbw2.JPG&hash=663af52df444e42da43074802b116b867977eadb)
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Fbw3.JPG&hash=5c3c1fd52209d0120848a0624ddd901fbdfb00c6)
UV and oxygen will gradually darken the boards and the green tint will fade. Seeing those colors that are inside of a freshly sawn Walnut log is a treat reserved for us sawyers. I smiled when Bibby reminded you to look. :)
Quote from: Magicman on December 08, 2012, 01:45:29 PM
I smiled when Bibby reminded you to look. :)
He forgot to tell me this stuff stains your hands too! :D
:D Yup it does, but that is a closely guarded trade secret known only to those that saw. Welcome to the club.
Looking good. Maybe get some 1" load binders and strap around the stack. Check for slack every now and tighten as required.
Is that masking tape or sapwood!?? it's pretty bright. And it looks like the heartwood has been planed. Wow.
I think you might run into some trouble with mold due to where you have it stacked. It is going to be difficult to get good air flow in a corner or against a wall like that. Nice looking lumber by the way.
That really is some pretty lumber! Like CustomSawyer said though, get it away from that wall where it can get some air flow around it. Where it is is just asking for trouble.
Its interesting to see that your log has a lot of sapwood, but the heart is dark black,
whereas the one I slabbed here (sat in a guys garage for years) has only 1/4 of sapwood that is a dark grey, but overall the color of the wood is like coco powder brown.
Quote from: customsawyer on December 08, 2012, 06:13:53 PM
I think you might run into some trouble with mold due to where you have it stacked. It is going to be difficult to get good air flow in a corner or against a wall like that. Nice looking lumber by the way.
I'm thinking about putting a fan on it for a few days and then moving it to a different location where it'll get more air. I had a mold problem with a bunch of white pine that was cut this summer and believe me, I've been thinking about that. Hopefully the cold weather will help too.
A fan on the 8/4 might hurt you if the wood dries too fast. That will cause it to crack and split as the shell dries too much faster than the core setting up the stress. Generally not too bad in walnut, but a definite issue with oak. If you do use a fan, do not have it blowing directly into the stack, but rather parallel to the long axis of the boards set a few feet to one side. That will still create air flow, just not direct velocity air flow through the wood.
QuoteA fan on the 8/4 might hurt you if the wood dries too fast. That will cause it to crack and split as the shell dries too much faster than the core setting up the stress. Generally not too bad in walnut, but a definite issue with oak. If you do use a fan, do not have it blowing directly into the stack, but rather parallel to the long axis of the boards set a few feet to one side. That will still create air flow, just not direct velocity air flow through the wood.
good advice. 8)
i've got a whack of walnut out back and seeing some pics of fresh sawn still makes me want to saw some more!
That's some beautiful stuff! I have 450 bf I need to get into pretty soon.
Got this in Monday and can't hardly wait to get into it. Their ALL going to be a challenge! :D Any advice on the best way to slice them up would be appreciated. Did I mention how much I Love this forum and the people here? :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30097/1212121725b.jpg)
Green walnut, now who would ever thunk of such a thing? :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/PC270037.JPG)
I get alot of that blue/green look around here in younger trees growing near the river. I'm guessing its some sort of mineral staining. turns Kinda grey as it dries. Learner...those are gonna make some real interesting boards.
Learner,
Almost no sapwood!
I get some pretty dark chocolate brown around here, but too much sapwood. :-\
Woodsrover, did you plane and put a finish on the boards, then put them back on the sawmill? I've cut some pretty walnut, but none that looked like that. I see you're a fellow Norwood sawyer. Good choice!
I recommend Anchorseal to seal up the ends of the logs and prevent checking, if you can do it shortly after cutting the logs.
Learner, try to cut across the crotches in the walnut to the extent you can. That's where the pretty grain is. Take your time in clamping them down. I hate it when a short piece rolls on me while I'm in the middle of a cut... does funny things to the blade! Here's a link to a post I made earlier, showing how I cut short crotches, and what the end product looks like. Good luck.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,62133.msg917183.html#msg917183
Quote from: dboyt on December 13, 2012, 04:23:40 PM
Woodsrover, did you plane and put a finish on the boards, then put them back on the sawmill? I've cut some pretty walnut, but none that looked like that. I see you're a fellow Norwood sawyer. Good choice!
No, that board is just wet. I washed all these slabs down before I put them up to get all the sawdust and such off them. I had some staining from these band in the past and I wanted to avoid that. I did use a new band and they did saw up pretty nice. And yes, I really like my Norwood! Thanks!
I do have a cool old Parks planer from the 50s or 60s and these slabs will see that next summer. Can't wait until they dry!
Quote from: WDH on December 13, 2012, 07:58:32 AM
Learner,
Almost no sapwood!
;D That's the FIRST thing I noticed too! It's 1 and 1/4" so that leaves 36" in the middle on the big one. Thankyou dboyt. I told my partner(Dad) that the one on top with the crotch was MINE! :D I don't care if it takes me all day, I'm gonna saw her slow and easy. I've had a log roll on me before so I know all about making sure it's clamped good. Oh, and I allready saw that post of yours. It was the inspiration for my clamping ideas! But thanks for reminding me. I'm definately going to take lots of pics to show everyone. Many thanks guys.
Woodsrover, just got into this string ... that walnut is just stinkin' gorgeous! As a woodworker, I'd love to do something with the marked contrast between heart and sap (maybe a table, or even a bar). Will make somebody a real conversation piece! I know a guy who uses some sapwood in walnut in Maloof-style rocking chairs, and it's fabulous.
How's the drying going?
Quote from: WIwoodworker on December 07, 2012, 10:46:14 AM
I just flat saw it 6/4 and 8/4 depending on what the boards are looking like as they come off the log. My goal is to create good book matched sets. Then I just sticker it and stack it. As Okra said, walnut is very forgiving and hard to mess up. Good luck!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14435/Walnut_PW_Log_1_1_web%7E0.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14435/Walnut_PW_Stack_2_web.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14435/Walnut_PW_Stack_3_web.jpg)
On this reply (#4), on WIwoodworker's second photo, my daughter says the end of the stacked lumber looks like Mickey Mouse. :)
Thought I'd show you guys what became of that black walnut I ran through the mill almost two years ago. Don't mind the ugly chairs. New ones are on the way. And no, I'm not clever enough to make chairs!
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Ftable3.jpg&hash=6a5757b6262fe84ffbf43a2add145a4812723f82)
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Ftable4.jpg&hash=46590187b0320b92cd323c88a20a3b9341fd6673)
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Ftable5.jpg&hash=8e4de09532b7717e074ffeff1d1e8358358e4758)
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Ftable7.jpg&hash=06e3a44e6d396799b67436126b1cdf96765ef090)
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Ftable6.jpg&hash=c84aedb6653a2935bbb95ad9806554bd9d7e546f)
Pretty table and nice craftsmanship. 8) Your lumber should be proud. ;)
Love it. The few little streaks of sapwood really add eye appeal. Is that an oil finish?
Nice job! Looks like a solid, well built table. Love the simple lines.
Did you allow for movement (expansion and contraction) of the top... ???
Quote from: WDH on August 14, 2014, 08:35:26 PM
Love it. The few little streaks of sapwood really add eye appeal. Is that an oil finish?
Oil-based CWP and a couple coats of wax. I'll wax it a few more times over the next couple of weeks. We have an almost 4 year-old and an 8 month-old...I expect this table to show some wear over the next few years!
Quote from: Ga Mtn Man on August 14, 2014, 08:39:06 PM
Nice job! Looks like a solid, well built table. Love the simple lines.
Did you allow for movement (expansion and contraction) of the top... ???
Thanks. Simple lines for a simple not-much-of-a-carpenter!
I like simplicity too. Very well proportioned.
Made this table a few weeks ago too. The wood is old pine barn beams from a 100+ year old barn that got torn down a couple years ago. I may or may not have hit a couple nails slabbing these up. ::) The frame is 1x2 box steel welded together and painted satin black.
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Ftable1.jpg&hash=aa63e0a3d6dde9693cfdd3acde05d6cea8d057aa)
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seriestrek.com%2Fimages%2Ftable2.jpg&hash=2e44eafe8a6a62d567bf9e5d3c521c0d1f38d9e8)
Another very nice piece.
Bold, but simple. 8)
And that's the way it should be done..........mill it, then build it!
Nice job on both tables.
very nice. i love black walnut
Nice Job looks great!
Larry
Well done! Those are nice looking tables made with some very cool wood.
Quote from: Woodsrover on December 07, 2012, 06:46:53 AM
A tree surgeon friend of mine gave me a call yesterday...Seems a dropped a pretty nice black walnut the other day and couldn't see blocking it up for firewood so he gave me a call. It's now in the back of my truck in two 6'+ sections awaiting my sawmill. They're not huge...one is 20" on the big end, 17" on the small and the other is 17" to 15". There's between 2" and 3" of sapwood around the dark heartwood.
My question is, how should I cut this stuff to get the nicest wood, and stuff that will dry straight? I'm assuming I want to end up with boards that have no sapwood on them? Is it going to be ok just flat-sawing this or should I try to quarter-saw it, (though its not that big so that would be tricky). I've got a couple nice logs here and I don't want to waste it.
When it gets light out I'll post a couple photos of them.
Black walnut sawdust is toxic to plants so keep it out of the garden.
Quote from: 36 coupe on August 15, 2014, 05:37:48 AM
Black walnut sawdust is toxic to plants so keep it out of the garden.
Guess that would explain the dead grass around where I've been sanding this table over the past few days! :D
Beautiful tables, guys. Now THAT'S why I'm in the sawmill business. Woodsrover, that table will be an awesome heirloom for those kids!
Learner, I'm not sure what you're milling the crotch with, but when I slab crotches (and I do a ton) I set them up so all three piths are parallel. In other words, they are all equal distance from the ground. Yes it takes some screwing around, especially since one limb is almost always bigger than the other and needs to be shimmed up. But once you get it you just figure out your thickness (I usually go 3) and whether or not you want to cut through the pith and start milling. I've got a nasty subpar walnut on the mill right now that took 30 minutes to set up. It has a 12" hump in the middle on both sides, exactly 90 degrees from the crotch. What a pain.
Quote from: logboy on August 15, 2014, 07:53:44 PM
Learner, I'm not sure what you're milling the crotch with, but when I slab crotches (and I do a ton) I set them up so all three piths are parallel. In other words, they are all equal distance from the ground. Yes it takes some screwing around, especially since one limb is almost always bigger than the other and needs to be shimmed up. But once you get it you just figure out your thickness (I usually go 3) and whether or not you want to cut through the pith and start milling. I've got a nasty subpar walnut on the mill right now that took 30 minutes to set up. It has a 12" hump in the middle on both sides, exactly 90 degrees from the crotch. What a pain.
Would love to see some pics of the wood if you get a chance!
Heres the one I set up tonight. I kept worrying the oblong thing was going to roll off the forks and through the mill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26719/walnutfunky.JPG)
Heres one over 20' long I did for a customer a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately it had an entire tree house in it complete with a spiral staircase. My bar is messed up because of it. Hitting 12 nails in one pass apparently isnt good for a slabbing bar.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26719/walnut.jpg)
Quote from: Woodsrover on December 08, 2012, 01:31:01 PM
Anyway, here are a couple of photos:
Those are amazing! Absolutely beautiful.
logboy those are sweet. from what distances do you have customers bringing in logs like that?
Quote from: logboy on August 16, 2014, 12:19:37 AM
Heres the one I set up tonight. I kept worrying the oblong thing was going to roll off the forks and through the mill.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26719/walnutfunky.JPG)
Heres one over 20' long I did for a customer a couple weeks ago. Unfortunately it had an entire tree house in it complete with a spiral staircase. My bar is messed up because of it. Hitting 12 nails in one pass apparently isnt good for a slabbing bar.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26719/walnut.jpg)
When you get a hump like that you can make really nice full live around oval slabs, usually with elliptical, target grain pattern. Nice for road signs, little tables and so on.
People like 'em. ;D
Nice work woodsrover! looking great, sap wood is of no issue in my book in regards to walnut.
WIwoodworker, Unless there is a natural funnel of air flow threw that hall way, mold could be an issue, wax on the ends would be perfect. Very nice stacking job! real nice in fact.
What is "CWP"?
Quote from: Brad_bb on August 17, 2014, 12:43:29 PM
What is "CWP"?
Clear Wood Preservative. I use and oil-based product from Benjamin Moore.
I applied both Howards Wax and Feed and Emmet's Good Stuff overtop of it. Wasn't happy as neither offered much protection from water, etc. Even wiping with a damp cloth would leave a mark in the finish. I moved it back outside yesterday and applied two coats of Minwax "Wipe-On" poly in clear satin. Its a tiny bit more glossy than I had wished for but really not bad and water beads up on it and doesn't leave a stain. For a kitchen table wax just isn't enough.
I agree with you that wax is not enough as a finish for a kitchen table.
that's awesome