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Whatcha Sawin' 2021 ??

Started by Magicman, December 31, 2020, 10:05:41 AM

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Magicman

I hate sawing pecker poles, but I have a whack of them waiting for me in South Louisiana next week.  146 mile road trip for 40 Cypress logs. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

burdman_22

Worst day of chainsaw milling ever. Cut through two of my own screws, bolt broke on my chainsaw mill, AND I was only able to get two slabs due to some poorly sharpened chains. I've got a guy sharpening my chains to 10 degrees now, hopefully that will make this weekend less stressful. I've also ordered a ripping chain from Granberg, hopefully it doesnt take 3 months to get here like the mill did.

Question for folks. Is it really worth it for me to pay $120 for a ripping chain? Are they really that much better? I'll know soon enough I suppose.

Also, it was my birthday yesterday and I got a pretty funny care from my 10 year old. Here's a picture of the two screws along with an untouched screw, a picture of one of the slabs I was able to get, and then pictures of the funny card (funny due to what I do for fun on the weekends...).
















richhiway

I had very good luck with the granberg ripping chains.
Woodmizer LT 40
New Holland 35 hp tractor
Stihl Chainsaws
Ford 340 Backhoe

burdman_22

@richhiway have you used ripping chains AND full chisel chains? I'm curious how much easier the cuts are going to be with a ripping chain. And how much longer (if any) the chain will last before needing sharpened again

WV Sawmiller

 

I set up last night in front of this stack of logs. The customer is bucking them at 20'10" so there is no extra room to play with when sawing. I removed the rear bumper and bought myself an extra couple of inches and next time will remove the front bumper for even a little more. 

 As you can see here the customer has logs scattered all over the area. She needs to get them cut to length and staged like the first bunch on the scrap logs. Those loaded easily on the mill thanks to the addition of another new LogRite cant hook I bought specifically for this job.

These are the 3 prototypes we got sawed before we lost the tractor and helpers. We confirmed the process works and what labor and MHE we need once she has the logs bucked and staged. I did not even know how to bill as we did not know how much time it will take so I offered hourly rate. That is fair to me and a much better deal for her. I keep stressing to her the more and better help she has and the more ready she is the faster we can cut her logs and the more money she saves. 

   I packed up about noon and came home then set up and sawed 2 decent poplar logs into 10' long 1X4's to fill an order.


 

These cut real good with minimal waste. I was able to cut 2-3 cants at a time. 


Order ready, customer called and will pick them up tomorrow or Saturday. Left over side lumber was 1X13, 1X10 and a couple of 1X6's all 10' long.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

TimW

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 11, 2021, 09:12:35 PM


I set up last night in front of this stack of logs. The customer is bucking them at 20'10" so there is no extra room to play with when sawing. I removed the rear bumper and bought myself an extra couple of inches and next time will remove the front bumper for even a little more.  

WV,
   That is how you do 20'10".  Here I thought 20' 6" inches was tight.  Thanks for the tip.
hugs,  Brandi
Mahindra 6520 4WD with loader/backhoe and a Caterpiller E70 Excavator.  My mill is a Woodmizer LT40HD Wide 35hp Yanmar Diesel. An old Lull 644D-34 called Bull

longtime lurker

Quote from: longtime lurker on February 28, 2021, 06:10:38 AM
Gotta remember to take some pictures of the hacking and stacking part this time.



 

Also the crane getting it onto the mill, because my gear ain't big enough to handle this one.:-\
So we banged it through this week.

Yah, it was a log, or half a log anyway because I put the top half of it through in January and this was the butt billet that was left to cut. It was wet and the loggers dozer was down for repairs so we used a pair of cranes to lift it on... 11.7 tonnes in that butt section... 25,795 lb for the metrically challenged amongst us. A pair because it was wet so they wanted to take it on the ropes and avoid some soft spots on the landing.  Volume 9.636 m3 (or 2420 BF doyle if that makes more sense to ya.)

Plan A was to crane it off here and toss it under the mill but the local guy with a 20t Franna only had chains good for 8.5 tonne so...
Plan B saw him take one end on the boom, me put the big loader under the other and we got it off that way. Then we attacked it with a Lucas Mill so we could gnaw it down to a more manageable weight for the loader. (knew I shouldn't have got rid of that other Lucas ... sometimes that easy to shift big log saw is a good thing)

So we hacked it apart, same as any other log I guess  - or at least any other log if you think a 4 gallon tin as a step up to a step cut in the log as a step so you can get on top of it to push the mill along is normal.  I seem to do it couple times a year so it's normal for me.



 
Young Benjamin doing his stuff - nothing like watching a professional at work.

Anyways we carved half of it off for an order that needed single log colour matching on some 10 x 4's. Then we tossed it into something a little easier to operate and finished the job.

Without a doubt this is the best serious hardwood log I've ever cut... nice even barrel on him and the heartshakes ran pretty straight so we didn't lose much in the middle. Got 7.1 m3 of sawn out of him or 3003 BF of lumber.... not too bad for scale overrun with a 7/16" bit circle saw. Normally I expect at best 45% recovery, this one got 72% which is unheard of here. I was due something nice to average up some of the trash we've been sawing I suppose



 

Mighta been all those big end sections maybe, first time I've ever calculated my recovery in BF against a scaled log cuz I found where I could plug in some numbers on the net and get a log scale measurement back. Normally I buy in either tonnes or cubic meters.

Anyway, job done. Back to hacking didgeridoos apart. :-\
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

nativewolf

super log there @longtime lurker .   We struggle with the monster logs too.  Had to hire a crane 2 years ago, RO that took a whole tractor trailer.   Glad you got a special order out of it because those generally pay at a rate that makes the trouble worth while.

Out of curiosity, how was it loaded in the forest?
Liking Walnut

longtime lurker

Normally just roll them over the side with a dozer off a ramp.. This time the dozer was down for repairs so we used 2 cranes... lot easier on the truck for sure. Buttress root species tend to roll with a crash thump that breaks things; there's an awful lot of patches welded onto my truck floor.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Bindian on March 11, 2021, 11:48:11 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 11, 2021, 09:12:35 PM


I set up last night in front of this stack of logs. The customer is bucking them at 20'10" so there is no extra room to play with when sawing. I removed the rear bumper and bought myself an extra couple of inches and next time will remove the front bumper for even a little more.  

WV,
  That is how you do 20'10".  Here I thought 20' 6" inches was tight.  Thanks for the tip.
hugs,  Brandi
Brandi,

 Thanks for asking. You do them very carefully! My mill will cut 21' and has two black marks looking like pieces of black electrical tape-  one at the front and one at the back of the mill. The logs have to fit exactly between those marks. Too far forward and you can't get the blade in the wood. Too far back and it won't finish the cut and that is a long way to back out of a cut. Even 1/2" over and you can't get your blade in or out of the log.

   I removed the rubber bumper at the end that is held in place with a cotter key and that gave me about 2" more. I noticed there is another at the front and I will remove it next time. That should actually let me cut 21'4" or real close to it.

  Other concerns are the logs must be cut/bucked perfectly square or there will be an inch or two extra unexpected length to contend with. Also when you rotate the log for the second cut (I only had to turn once since we were doing live edge cabin logs) if you are not careful they will crawl forward or backwards a fudge and get over the line.

  When you load the logs you also have to raise the head and pull the debarker all the way out or the log will hit them. Once on the bed you can raise the toeboards and roll back or forward to adjust but they are very heavy. I had it with me but forgot use my Magic hook for it but if you raise the side supports all the way up and hook to the end of the log and a side support when you lower the arm you can pull the log backward a little. You should be able to pull it forward using the same technique from the back end starting with the side supports partly lowered, hook to the front end of the log then raise the side support and that should pull it to the rear. I think I have seen pics of the MagicMan moving logs forward or back this way and I will try it next time.

 BTW - 21' slabs and flitches are heavy too! Lacking the pair (or more) of burly, mentally challenged off-bearer helpers we needed we generally needed 2 of us worn out, broke down old men to carry each one to be stacked. Finally I just started sliding them off on to the bed of the mill or loading arms. When finished I'd raise the toeboards to full height giving us 5-6 inches of free space for the tractor forks to get under and lift and remove first the log then we'd do the same thing with the flitches. I do not like having anyone driving heavy equipment like that at and over my mill as a poor operator can easily tear something up but the neighbor with the tractor yesterday was very careful.

  Yesterday was just a concept verification day and it took us about 30 minutes per log. With properly bucked and staged logs and good help we should be able to do 3-4 per hour.

  I'd start at the center and make a mark 3" above and 3" below dead center to leave/take the 6" LE log from the middle. Heart checks had to be turned horizontal to the cut or the crack would show in the log when used. From my mark I'd come up 1-1/8" at a time (we were saving true 1" side lumber) till I had the face width I wanted, stop and set my SimpleSet for 1-1/8" drops, saw off side lumber to my mark, flip, start at 6" from the bed and raise and repeat so I had the 6" log left in the middle. I had to raise the appropriate toeboard a little on the first cut to level the heart then remember to lower it once I flipped the log or I would leave a long wedge and ruin the final log.

 Its not rocket science but it is tedious and heavy work.


Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

firefighter ontheside

No sawing today, but I did replace the blade guide bearings and the wheel belts.  The guide bearings still rolled smoothly, but I wouldn't doubt that they are the originals so I figured now is as good a time as any.  I did replace the belts a few years ago, but I had the new ones so I went ahead and changed them.  I'll save the old ones for now.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

TimW

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 12, 2021, 08:53:47 AM
Quote from: Bindian on March 11, 2021, 11:48:11 PM
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 11, 2021, 09:12:35 PM


I set up last night in front of this stack of logs. The customer is bucking them at 20'10" so there is no extra room to play with when sawing. I removed the rear bumper and bought myself an extra couple of inches and next time will remove the front bumper for even a little more.  

WV,
  That is how you do 20'10".  Here I thought 20' 6" inches was tight.  Thanks for the tip.
hugs,  Brandi
Brandi,

Thanks for asking. You do them very carefully! My mill will cut 21' and has two black marks looking like pieces of black electrical tape-  one at the front and one at the back of the mill. The logs have to fit exactly between those marks. Too far forward and you can't get the blade in the wood. Too far back and it won't finish the cut and that is a long way to back out of a cut. Even 1/2" over and you can't get your blade in or out of the log.

  I removed the rubber bumper at the end that is held in place with a cotter key and that gave me about 2" more. I noticed there is another at the front and I will remove it next time. That should actually let me cut 21'4" or real close to it.

 Other concerns are the logs must be cut/bucked perfectly square or there will be an inch or two extra unexpected length to contend with. Also when you rotate the log for the second cut (I only had to turn once since we were doing live edge cabin logs) if you are not careful they will crawl forward or backwards a fudge and get over the line.

 When you load the logs you also have to raise the head and pull the debarker all the way out or the log will hit them. Once on the bed you can raise the toeboards and roll back or forward to adjust but they are very heavy. I had it with me but forgot use my Magic hook for it but if you raise the side supports all the way up and hook to the end of the log and a side support when you lower the arm you can pull the log backward a little. You should be able to pull it forward using the same technique from the back end starting with the side supports partly lowered, hook to the front end of the log then raise the side support and that should pull it to the rear. I think I have seen pics of the MagicMan moving logs forward or back this way and I will try it next time.

BTW - 21' slabs and flitches are heavy too! Lacking the pair (or more) of burly, mentally challenged off-bearer helpers we needed we generally needed 2 of us worn out, broke down old men to carry each one to be stacked. Finally I just started sliding them off on to the bed of the mill or loading arms. When finished I'd raise the toeboards to full height giving us 5-6 inches of free space for the tractor forks to get under and lift and remove first the log then we'd do the same thing with the flitches. I do not like having anyone driving heavy equipment like that at and over my mill as a poor operator can easily tear something up but the neighbor with the tractor yesterday was very careful.

 Yesterday was just a concept verification day and it took us about 30 minutes per log. With properly bucked and staged logs and good help we should be able to do 3-4 per hour.

 I'd start at the center and make a mark 3" above and 3" below dead center to leave/take the 6" LE log from the middle. Heart checks had to be turned horizontal to the cut or the crack would show in the log when used. From my mark I'd come up 1-1/8" at a time (we were saving true 1" side lumber) till I had the face width I wanted, stop and set my SimpleSet for 1-1/8" drops, saw off side lumber to my mark, flip, start at 6" from the bed and raise and repeat so I had the 6" log left in the middle. I had to raise the appropriate toeboard a little on the first cut to level the heart then remember to lower it once I flipped the log or I would leave a long wedge and ruin the final log.

Its not rocket science but it is tedious and heavy work.
Yep, found that out with my long, bigger logs.  When I turned it, it moved a little and I was out of travel with 1/2" left to saw.  To bump it back into position, I raised the toe boards and pushed it back with the telehander and had the tractor's grapple to stop it where I wanted it.

 
It is time consuming, but doable.  Can't wait til I get it in the shed and the 6 foot or so extension installed.
hugs, Brandi
Mahindra 6520 4WD with loader/backhoe and a Caterpiller E70 Excavator.  My mill is a Woodmizer LT40HD Wide 35hp Yanmar Diesel. An old Lull 644D-34 called Bull

WV Sawmiller

Brandi,

 I tried to convince the customer to cut them to 20'6" so I had 6" to play with but she keyed on that 21' max and decided she needed that extra 4" of house space I guess. I guess I'm lucky she left me 2" of play. If she'd known about the bumper space she would have left them 21'. We pushed these with the toeboards up. It is much easier on the second turn when you have the sawed face resting on the toeboard than the round edge like we started with. We did not have a fancy telehandler to work with. I think the MagicHook will do what we need but I forgot about it yesterday. Straight logs don't shift as much as crooked ones.

 Maybe Marty Parsons will read this and have WM make a log shifter attachment for the mills to fix this issue and if it makes any money he will send us some of it. :D

EDIT/ADD-ON: All they have to do is provide power to the toeboards. ;)
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

trimguy

I had a chance to cut a little pine this afternoon. I'm setting the slabs to the side to use for counter tops

 for a cabin project in Northern Michigan. The Lt40 will cut 28" , but it better be string straight on both sides. I had to work this back and forth a little to get it cut.

TimW

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on March 12, 2021, 03:49:11 PM
Brandi,

I tried to convince the customer to cut them to 20'6" so I had 6" to play with but she keyed on that 21' max and decided she needed that extra 4" of house space I guess. I guess I'm lucky she left me 2" of play. If she'd known about the bumper space she would have left them 21'. We pushed these with the toeboards up. It is much easier on the second turn when you have the sawed face resting on the toeboard than the round edge like we started with. We did not have a fancy telehandler to work with. I think the MagicHook will do what we need but I forgot about it yesterday. Straight logs don't shift as much as crooked ones.

Maybe Marty Parsons will read this and have WM make a log shifter attachment for the mills to fix this issue and if it makes any money he will send us some of it. :D

EDIT/ADD-ON: All they have to do is provide power to the toeboards. ;)
Howard,
      If I hadn't had the squirt boom, the Mahindra's grapple would have been used.  I can't, by myself, slide a 5,000 pound log over a half inch, even with the toe boards up.
It would be nice if WM came out with a kit to do this.  Problem with the toe boards is the pivots both swing the same direction, which tends to have the log move that direction more so.
hugs,  Brandi
Mahindra 6520 4WD with loader/backhoe and a Caterpiller E70 Excavator.  My mill is a Woodmizer LT40HD Wide 35hp Yanmar Diesel. An old Lull 644D-34 called Bull

Southside

WM does have powered toe rollers available. @Stuart Caruk put them on his mill. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Sixacresand


Trim Guy,  That one does look string straight.  Sometimes I remove the blade and see if the saw head and roller guides will make a clear pass down the log.  
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Southside on March 13, 2021, 06:37:05 AM
WM does have powered toe rollers available. @Stuart Caruk put them on his mill.
Boy, that was a fast response! Those WM people work fast don't they? :D

   I looked under the accessories list and the only toeboards I saw listed were manual ones.  Since this is likely a one off kind of a job it would probably not be worth the effort and expense for me to add them anyway although I am sure if I had them I would use them regularly on my other shorter logs too.

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Stuart Caruk's powered toe board roller.



Of course he is set up permanent and can saw 52' beams.  :o
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

     I hope those are rubber fingers on the rollers. If not we sure could not use them on the sawed side of a a cant or it would chew it up.  Yeah, not something I'll be adding anytime soon. It is either a couple of mentally challenged helpers or the MagicHook for me especially on the round side. The flat side rolls a lot easier once you get to that stage.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

doc henderson

with those you do not need off bearers, just cut through the cant, go to the high speed and toss them off the end of the mill!   :D :D :D   :o :o :o   :) :) :)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: doc henderson on March 13, 2021, 12:21:19 PM
with those you do not need off bearers, just cut through the cant, go to the high speed and toss them off the end of the mill!   :D :D :D   :o :o :o   :) :) :)
I'd like to see a video of that, for sure.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

WV Sawmiller

Doc,

   You had me scratching my head there for a minute then I finally realized you were saying the power rollers replace the off bearers. I guess that would be like a reverse dragback feature. I guess I will stick with the off-bearers.

   That reminds me of an old boss of mine who said he had an uncle with a sawmill and two old black men who cut the logs with a crosscut saw as a sort of retirement income. They did not work fast but just steady and he'd saw whatever logs they cut into lumber and sell it as a sort of sideline business. His sawmill was not something he tried to do full time. Linwood asked his uncle why he did not buy the old men a chainsaw. He said his uncle told him "A chainsaw would just put his helpers out of work because they would finish so much sooner and likely only needed one." He wanted to be sure the old men had and income but he was going to make sure they worked for it.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WV Sawmiller

I saw I have used up all my 2" lath strips I use to make my simple crates and such so I figured I'd make some more stock out of a small 8' poplar top I cut several days ago. A couple days ago I cut 2-10' logs from about midpoint on the tree into 1X4's and a kid came and picked them up for his dad today.


 I just cut the "log" into 2" flitches and saved one 3/8" flitch about 5" wide between the bark. I stood the 2" flitches up and set my mark on 13" and SimpleSet to 1/2" and started edging. Every pass left me with 5 each 3/8" X 2" X8' lath strips.


I got 96 strips out the scrappy log. There will be some waste from splits and such but not much loss since I'm cutting them up into 12-16 inch lengths on my RAS to make crates. The dog boards were 1/2" and there was some serious pucker to cut them. I will use them for handles on the end of the crates or such. I have them stacked and stickered and they should be air dry in just a few weeks because they are so thin.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

btulloh

Those crates must be a hot item, WV. Nice work. 
HM126

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