V-Belt Band wheels vs Cast and Trued w/ Crown Band Wheels

Fly Fisher · July 08, 2010, 08:42:32 PM

This is my first post in a while. I'm still stuck on the decision of what Bandmill to buy. I have been leaning toward a Timberking 1600 due to the basic hydraulics and it fits my budget. I just learned today that Timberking has switched back to V-belt band wheels instead of the cast and crowned all metal wheels. I was told they were having trouble with harmonic vibration on their cast wheels causing premature breakage of shafts and blades. I know Cook's still use cast crowned wheels and to my knowledge haven't had problems with them.
Are the V-Belt band wheels just a cost saver for the Company and are the all metal wheels better? The reason I'm asking is that I have dibs on a used TK1600 that has V-Belt band wheels.
Also how long do the v-belts last? I've heard they are a pain to put on.

Kcwoodbutcher · July 08, 2010, 08:58:31 PM

I never knew the 1600 came with crowned steel wheels, the B20 did. I have an older 1600 with belts and have had zero problems. The belts are easy to put on if you stay with the b57's. The belts should last several hundred hours of use.

Magicman · July 08, 2010, 09:17:04 PM

Bandmill builders spend many hours and $$$ doing R&D on their mills. I just let them do the worrying. My WM mill uses B57 belts and I am very satisfied with their performance. I tried the "orange" belts which cost me fifty something bucks, and vibrated badly. I won't deviate from the manufacturers suggestion/specifications again.

paul case · July 08, 2010, 09:44:12 PM

my mill has v belts on the wheels and i have about 300 hours on it with no problems . who cares if it saves the mfger money as long as it saves you some too and the belts dont seem to be too bothersome. happy shopping . pc

Bodger · July 09, 2010, 06:54:30 AM

Over the years I have switched back and forth with B57 and B56's (usually NAPA brand). I am convinced that there is really no difference in the area of vibration. The only real difference is getting them off and on. One advantage of the B57's is being able to rotate every 50 hours. I think that adds life to the belts. Haven't used a crowned wheel but have had good service from the v-belts.

ladylake · July 09, 2010, 08:09:08 AM

Seems like the B57 would wear faster going in and out of the groove all the time. I run B56 Goodyear belts which have a nice high crown, also I used a angle grinder to bevel the outside of the wheels to keep the blade from touching the wheel. I think solid wheels work good if adjusted right but not so good if the tracking gets off at all. Steve

kelLOGg · July 09, 2010, 08:09:50 AM

I've been using the crowned wheel on my MP32 for 8 years and have not yet had to have it re-crowned and it is still vibration-free.
Bob

Fly Fisher · July 09, 2010, 10:03:55 AM

Thanks for all the replies, I guess what I'm asking is which is the best Band Wheel?
A cast & trued with crown or the V-Belt wheel? If a Cast wheel is out of round by .015 ea I can't see where a piece of rubber that is also out of round compensates for this? Plus the hassle of replacing the V-Belts. I take it serious if a manufacturer cuts corners just to satisfy their profits, however if they have stats that prove their reasoning I would be all for it.

Bill Gaiche · July 09, 2010, 10:40:06 AM

The B57 belts that W/M sells and recomends are flat across the surface. This serves a purpose to make the blade run in a more normal attitude. It would seem to me that a crowned belt would be more difficult to keep leveled to the bed plane, also stresses the band in the area where it runs versus being flat. The belts are easy to change and rotating them is a plus to longivity.

Larry · July 09, 2010, 03:25:36 PM

16 years with 200mbf on steel wheels. No problems, no maintenance, and no expense. I'm shopping for a new mill at this time and while I like steel wheels, its not one of my must haves.

It is an interesting question that I've pondered before. It seems most re-saws are running steel along with some of the higher production mills.

backwoods sawyer · July 09, 2010, 08:17:02 PM

I have never ran the V belt wheels. I started out working with crowned wheels in the production mill and that is what came on my LT-70. I had the wheels crowned after getting the mill so I knew when it had last been done, steel wheels can have a wiper added that helps to keep them clean, other then that there is no maintenance. As to whether I would choose a mill strictly on the wheel style, no it is not that high on my priority list, wheel size, hydraulics and setworks would be more of a priority in my book.

petefrom bearswamp · July 10, 2010, 10:55:12 AM

I also tried the expensive orange belts and had the same prob as magicman. They now hang on a nail in my storage bldg.
Over the years i have used both b57 and b56 both goodyear and NAPA and the only difference i have noted is the ease of installation of the b57s

John S · July 10, 2010, 04:11:41 PM

I have an LT-40 on order and was wondering what you guys mean by "orange belts". Are those the ones that come from Woodmizer or something else? I currently have an LT-15.
John S.

ladylake · July 10, 2010, 04:25:51 PM

Quote from: petefrombearswamp on July 10, 2010, 10:55:12 AM
I also tried the expensive orange belts and had the same prob as magicman. They now hang on a nail in my storage bldg.
Over the years i have used both b57 and b56 both goodyear and NAPA and the only difference i have noted is the ease of installation of the b57s

One plus for the B56 is that they never get sawdust under them. Steve

Fly Fisher · July 10, 2010, 05:22:33 PM

So you put on the V-Belts and cut for a season then change them out? I could check with NAPA but since most of you use these belts what do they cost per belt? I guess I'm making too big a deal of this issue? Any other Timberking 1600 owners have any opinons on this issue or the mill itself?

Magicman · July 10, 2010, 05:27:29 PM

Quote from: John S on July 10, 2010, 04:11:41 PM
I have an LT-40 on order and was wondering what you guys mean by "orange belts".

John, here is a link to a previous discussion about the Timberwolf orange belts. I'm quite sure that they will work very well on the mill that they were designed for. I just didn't find them satisfactory for my use.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,38782.msg558760.html#msg558760

wwsjr · July 10, 2010, 06:20:56 PM

I have not had good luck with the NAPA belts that have a crown, The flat goodyear that I order from WM is all I have used for several years. In 02 when I got my first mill, Browning was also making the flat top belts. The WM belts are the same price that NAPA was locally. When the WM Tech serviced my mill in 08 he had B56 on his truck. I tried a set, was tight, no dust underneath. When he serviced in 09, he said WM no longer has the B56. I tried the orange once, no go.

Mark Webb · July 10, 2010, 07:04:02 PM

I have a B20 and in November I bought cast iron wheels from Cook to go on it. The best thing I can say about them is I don't have the V belts to worry with and the diesel doesn't effect them.

John S · July 11, 2010, 02:24:47 PM

MM, Thanks for the link.
John

redbeard · July 11, 2010, 08:11:36 PM

Looks like I'am the only fan of the Orange Belt, I agree they are a pain to get on right but they last along time and very quiet.I'am about to put knew ones on so i will use fan belt set that i have and try them out and see what i have been missing. I got at least 200 hrs out of the last Orange set.

flip · July 13, 2010, 07:31:41 AM

I ditched the crowned steel wheels soon after I got the B20. Tracking stunk and I had to keep adjusting to get a blade to stay on straight (yes there was still crown on the wheels). Ordered the belted wheels and have not had a problem since. Threw a new set of Goodyear B56s on a few weeks ago. When blades start breaking I know they are worn out and touching where they shouldn't be.

backwoods sawyer · July 13, 2010, 11:13:48 PM

Tracking can be an issue with the steel wheels as they will show you if you have an issue with alignment. One shut down at the production mill where I was the supervisor of the sawmill and planer, we changed out a set off double cut twin bandmills that were mounted on the third floor over the headrig waist conveyor. In the process one of the welders had welded a step on the cement pillar where the #3 bandmill in a set of single cut quads anchored to. It took six months of trying to align the #3 saw to the carriage. One night after dayshift had had a major wreck trying to push to hit 400,000bft mark. The millwright and I climbed down under the base of the #3 mill and found the step that had not been removed. The next week all three crews set new records each shift and the new bench mark settled in at 475,000 in a ten hour shift.
When I bought my LT-70 the saw would not stay on the wheel and was braking new saws everyday. Set the crown on the wheel, realigned the mill twice, replaced the guides and found that the pin that the idler wheel runs on had sheared a bolt and was pivoting on the narrow holders. A grease zert there and a grease gun that was used would have prevented the need to rebuild the arm.
When I started running the mighty might it was thwart with alignment issues as well. When you can stay on top of the maintenance alignment is not an issue. However the belts are a bit more forgiving in this area then steel.

Handy Andy · July 15, 2010, 11:49:33 PM

I've heard Timberking had trouble with the crowned wheels. My cook MP32 works great, and I have a neighbor who has a 1600 with the belts that also works great. Watching them run it makes me think it is really comparable to my MP32 except it has hydraulics. Also makes me want to get a power feeder.

bandmiller2 · July 16, 2010, 08:22:34 AM

Really boath types of bandwheel work fine.The problems with orange belts is in their installation, they are very very tight and if stretched over the wheels without propper lube will have thick and thin spots causing vibration and pulsing.I use B56 belts with a slight crown and like the idea of running on something easily replaciable.Frank C.