Balsam/Eastern Fir Butt Rot

[g_man]

Is there a way of telling if a fir has butt rot other than relying on
pileated woodpeckers for help? I have been harvesting my fir as a salvage
operation after wind storms. Most that blow over (break rather than up root)
have butt rot. I would like to cut the infected trees and
leave the good ones. My other worry is will I just get more wind damage
on the remaining good trees because of the thinning operation.
The site is fairly wet in most places.
Thanks for your opinions in advance - my first post.

[Kevin]

Welcome to the forum!

You can take a core sample, you might find some by hitting them and listening for the hollow sound but you won't get all of them.

http://sfrc.ufl.edu/Class/for3162c/docs/IncBorer.pdf

[thecfarm]

g_man,welcome to the forum.I have the same problem with my fir.A lot of mine will break off about 2 feet high and the limbs will keep it off the ground and it will stay that way for years. But some will grow real good,but only in certain areas.Seems like if it get past 6 inches it's a good one. I have a OWB and put alot of fir in that.Mine is on good high ground.

[SwampDonkey]

Wet land is not good for fir to begin with unless you get them on elevated mounds from past blow downs. Most fir in those places develop rot before they get very big. Besides checking with a increment borer or thumping with an axe. I have most always gone by the bark. Any but seems is a sure sign, also if the bark is dried up and lacking pitch blisters they are not in good shape. In those cases the sapwood is about all that's left. I've seen sound fir snap off to, the fibre is weaker than spruce. I have seen the odd 4 or 5" fir growing really fast (18+ " leader per year) end up broken off even in 6-8 foot spacings.

[g_man]

Thanks for the info. I should probably just cut it all and let it go to hard wood.
It seems to want to be yellow birch in most areas. But I like the fir because
its easy for me to handle with my small equipment and the saw mill down the road
will take small loads of 10 and 12 footers which I deliver in my one ton dump. I
use it to pay my taxes.

[g_man]

I forgot to ask thecfarm what is an OWB?

[stonebroke]

Outdoor Wood Boiler

Stonebroke

[celliott]

Thanks for the info. I should probably just cut it all and let it go to hard wood.
It seems to want to be yellow birch in most areas. But I like the fir because
its easy for me to handle with my small equipment and the saw mill down the road
will take small loads of 10 and 12 footers which I deliver in my one ton dump. I
use it to pay my taxes.

I am in the area, which sawmill is this?

[Stephen Alford]

Hey g_man ; welcome to the forum. If you can access some infra red potos of the stand ( here it is at the provincial forestry office ) they are very helpfull.  As fir starts to weaken the ability to reflect infra red diminishes. They will appear grey. If the photography has been taken over a period of years  it is very apparent. Increment borers are a great tool especially for growth and age determination.  Normally a tree is bored at dbh .  A battery powered drill with a longer bit used where you would make your first cut is a big help ( an increment borer will require 6-8" below the hole to turn the handle)to see what shape the butt portion is in. Those first couple of ft can add up over an entire stand. With an increment borer you can  replace the core or put it in a straw to take with you to show a landowner.  Every hole you make is another access port into the tree for an invasive species.  When felling I always keep an eye on the sawdust from the saw , good indicator as to what you can expect. It seems that the butt rot will travel through the root system and up into another tree. Just something to keep in mind once you start to cut. Leaving the trees on the edge will help reduce wind blow. Be safe !

[g_man]

I should have known on the outdoor furnace.
Hi celliot I see you are in Greenbanks Hollow - I'm in Waterford.
I go to Polsen's across the river in Littleton.
The ifra-red photography sounds interesting - does that take
a special film and camera or just an infra-red flash like a game
camera?

[SwampDonkey]

Infrared is usually on Landsat. I think what he means is regular photographic film with a red filter when developing. That's what they used to do here without requesting it. Now everything is digital photography. I know I have some 1980 photography and the red filter really brought that fir out, also it really separated the cedar stands to. The last bunch of photos we got on paper where not filtered and it was hard to pick the aspen from the hardwood, unless it was young growth. Also, the large tooth shows up as hardwood because they both have an orange tinge coming onto fall.  When ordering they never realized they could get the filtered process. New staff and didn't know. :