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Building a cabin with green lumber?

Started by GDinMaine, July 03, 2013, 06:28:45 PM

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GDinMaine

I have a friend that's been asking an awful lot about what I can do with my mill.  It turns out he is thinking about hiring me to saw out some lumber for him to build a hunting cabin on a remote property he owns.  He is really hoping to have the material sawed from the pine, spruce and hemlock he has on the property.
  As I said it would be a hunting camp, not a MacMention.  It would be sided with cedar shingles on the outside, but I forgot to ask how he plans on finishing the inside.  For all I know it might be rough lumber.

The thing is my friend is not the sit-on-his-hads kind of guy and told me he could not look at the stack of lumber sitting there until next year. I would like to know if there are any possible issues, warnings, hazards to this idea?  Possible ways to compensate, or techniques to use in the framing?  If this is an absolutely bad idea, how long should the 2x lumber air dry if there is a minimum? 
My friend has lots of building experience (two complete houses and a number of remodels), but he always used KD lumber from the box stores.
Please share your opinion on this.  I would love to be able to say I cut the lumber for his cabin. ;D
It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

Jeff

We built one in the backyard almost as the wood came off the saw. Sometimes the logs were trees the week before they became cabin parts. Including the red pine siding. As we took it off the mill and carried it to the cabin and put it up.

Here is the old topic we put up.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,14094.200.html

Here are some photos of the cabin on the site I put together when we were thinking about selling our home about three years ago as well.
www.forestryforum.com/ourhome/guesthouse.htm

We've never had any issues building the way we did. Worked for us.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

customsawyer

I did the same on my house. It might make a little noise now and then but I kind of like that.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Cguignard

I have built a few barns and out buildings with hemlock right off the mill. Hemlock wont split when you drive a nail in it if it is green.  The pine boards will shrink but if you board and batters you shouldn't have an issue.

ladylake


Saw it one day build the next....    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

47sawdust

I have put up a lot of structures over the years with fresh sawn lumber.They are all still fully functional.
It will be a lot of fun,satisfying and have a lot of character.The shingles on the outside over rough board sheathing is a good idea.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

drobertson

If your friend is a builder, then this should pose no issue at all. Use the methods for green building, and this cabin will witness lots of harvest, and good times,  I say go for it,  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Kingcha

When I asked about building with green lumber someone suggest buying and book.   I found and old copy of this one on amazon.  http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0882662503/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all

Looks like the price went up a little but it is a very informative book.

matt
a Wood-mizer LT15 10hp Electric, 45hp Kioti tractor, electric smoker, wood-fired brick oven & yes a custom built Solar Kiln

bandmiller2

Its better to build with all green, not some dry some wet, at least it will all shrink together.I've built with wood so green if you miss the nail head it will squirt in your face. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

clww

I nailed up B&B on a number of the interior walls in our cabin with green-right off the mill-SYP. Some shrinkage, and some sap running out, but I'm pleased with it.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

The storage of lumber not on stickers can develop blue stain, heavy mold and even decay when stored over the summer.  Also, any insects could have a big party.  So, as mentioned, use it right after sawing (do not use logs from dead trees), or stack it properly for air drying.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

thecfarm

I would think nothing of building a cabin out of green lumber. But i would not want to insulate for a while. I don't know if you could insulate it this fall of not. I don't know if it would be all dry by than. I would be concerned about trapping in mosture with insulataion.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

GDinMaine

Thank you all for the quick responses.  As I see it, this spells a good time for me.  I'm pretty sure that Jeff's cabin is far nicer then the one I will partake in, but none the less it is very impressive. 
You have to know, that I have been talking rural living (ie:wood, gardens and hunting) with this fellow for a dozen years now and it would give me great satisfaction to be able to saw for him.  Some people like to hunt and some live for it.  My friend is in the later category and I know this would mean a lot to him.  For sure I will suggest to sticker the lumber to begin with, just in case he gets busy with other things.  I will be very happy to pass along the input you guys gave, and will let you know if the cabin is built before this hunting season.
It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

GDinMaine

Quote from: thecfarm on July 03, 2013, 10:35:39 PM
I would think nothing of building a cabin out of green lumber. But i would not want to insulate for a while. I don't know if you could insulate it this fall of not. I don't know if it would be all dry by than. I would be concerned about trapping in mosture with insulataion.

So. You are saying to put off insulation - if intended - until next year?  I don't think it would be a problem.  I will be sure to mention that as well. 
It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

thecfarm

I have no idea about the drying part. I was just saying I would be concerned. But others should know more about the drying part than me. I do know one thing. I had some white pine that was stickered all summer. I cut them in the spring.I put them on the roof in late fall and they still shrunk some. I had the boards touching. They don't touch no more.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ianab

QuoteSo. You are saying to put off insulation - if intended - until next year?  I don't think it would be a problem.  I will be sure to mention that as well.

Basically yes. You can frame up the building, put the roof and exterior cladding on it, get it weather tight, and then wait for things to dry out.

But if you seal up that green wood in an insulated, damp proof barrier, type of scenario, and trap that  moisture inside the wall cavity, then you are asking for a mushroom farm to develop inside the wall.

If you allow the wood to dry out in place, then it's fine to come back later and add the insulation and interior cladding. Main place you will see shrinkage is in the wide boards, like weather-boards and flooring. So make sure you use techniques that allow for the shrinkage to occur.

If you aren't using the wood within days of sawing, then put it on stickers. It will start drying there, but not a  big issue if you don't get to it for a few weeks. Otherwise, if it's dead stacked you may be back to the mushroom farm scenario.  :o

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

rimshot

I can only think of one real negative when building with green lumber.  I built an etire house out of rough sawn. green lumber.
That was accomplished during Spring and Summer.  The following Fall and Winter while enjoying my wood stove and freshly painted drywall.  I think screws help some but can still be popped.  Go for it. 

I built with Spruce, White Pine and Balsam studs.  I don't like spruce 2 X 4's because so many twist.  Seems to me it makes pretty good  1"sheeting and bigger lumber like 2 X 8's where I did not notice the twist so much


rimshot
LT 10 with a 10 h.p. and a converted boat trailer to provide mobility for a once permanent mill.

JohnM

Quote from: GDinMaine on July 03, 2013, 10:51:49 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on July 03, 2013, 10:35:39 PM
I would think nothing of building a cabin out of green lumber. But i would not want to insulate for a while. I don't know if you could insulate it this fall of not. I don't know if it would be all dry by than. I would be concerned about trapping in mosture with insulataion.

So. You are saying to put off insulation - if intended - until next year?  I don't think it would be a problem.  I will be sure to mention that as well.
Ray has an excellent point but this is a hunting camp, the only thing that should have insulation in it are your boots and your sleeping bag! ;) ;D :) 

Sounds like a cool project GD.

JM
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

Planman1954

At the pace that I build stuff, the lumber is completely dry by the time I'm finished!  :D
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

YellowHammer

I've built a whole farm out of green lumber, no problems.  Just account for shrinkage in the joints and siding.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

GDinMaine

Quote from: YellowHammer on July 04, 2013, 11:46:09 AMJust account for shrinkage in the joints and siding.
YH

Thanks for the input guys.  I have been hoping to tell my friend about your responses but he is probably off fishing some place with no phone or such gizmos.

I'm by no means a builder so excuse the question.  How do you account for shrinkage in joints and siding and any other important places? 
It's the going that counts not the distance!

WM LT-40HD-D42

Ianab

QuoteHow do you account for shrinkage in joints and siding and any other important places?

Main issue will be siding, where you will get noticeable shrinkage in the wide boards. Important thing here is to only nail on one place on the board. If you take a 12" green board, and nail down both sides of it, it will soon turn into a 11 & 1/2" board. Something's going to give if both sides are nailed down.

For example, if you use board and batten, you nail the boards in the middle, and nail the battens over the gap so those nails aren't holding the main boards.  Now your wide boards are free to shrink, and the gap that opens up is covered by the batten. So the boards don't split and nails aren't pulled out or any other grief like that.

It's methods like that that let you use green wood.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

longtime lurker

Traditional timber building here is almost exclusively green framed... but then if you've ever tried to drive a nail into seasoned eucalypt hardwoods you'd know why.
As mentioned joints have to be built to allow for shrinkage. Wood shrinks more tangentally then radially, so you joint to allow for that... ie keep them nice and tight when green, and as much as possible try and avoid a mix of backsawn and quartersawn lumber in the same parts... you dont want some rafters shrinking by 8% with some others between them shrinking by 2% for example. If they all shrink by 8% more or less, it doesn't make a lot of difference to the roof.
Backsawn is generally better in terms of nail holding ability as it dries and shifts.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

slider

what if you put black roofing paper up first then wall paneling over it.After it shrinks a bit you would have a nice contrast between the wood and the black strip.just a thought.
al glenn

WH_Conley

Slider, you will also have another layer to block air infiltration. That boils down to being warmer in the winter.
Bill

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