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Axle shafts?

Started by RazrRebel, March 24, 2017, 07:52:43 AM

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RazrRebel

I am currently getting everything together to build my first mill. I'm on a budget so everything I can find cheap or make is the way to go for me. Here at work I got a piece of old rock drill steel gave to me. Just a hair over 9' long, and 2" diameter. The guy in charge of our machine shop said he could turn it down to 1 7/16" for me, for the axle shafts for my band wheels. I've already bought my bearings, band wheels / pulleys, and drive pulley all in 1 7/16". I have to cut the steel in shorter pieces to handle easier. How long should the axles be? Since I have a little over 9' I figured I would measure 3 of them 3' each, and have an extra. Is 3' long enough? I thought this was 2" cold rolled, but it's far heavier so I'm sure it's drill steel. What do you guys think, 3' fine?

Kbeitz

Before you go cutting I would make sure it can be machined.
If it's hardened steel there will be no machining. Drill rod can
be machined before it hardened. If it was a rock drill I don't think
you could do much with it but maybe make a pry bar.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

RazrRebel

Ok makes sense. If it cuts with a chop saw can it be machined?

Kbeitz

Quote from: RazrRebel on March 24, 2017, 08:13:51 AM
Ok makes sense. If it cuts with a chop saw can it be machined?

No... You can cut a file with a chop saw.
Try a hand hack saw or try filing it.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ox

It can be turned down if you rig up a grinding wheel instead of a cutting tool...and keep it cool so it doesn't lose its temper.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Kbeitz

Quote from: Ox on March 24, 2017, 09:19:33 AM
It can be turned down if you rig up a grinding wheel instead of a cutting tool...and keep it cool so it doesn't lose its temper.

Wow that would take a lot of grinding.
I don't grind with my lathe.
If you get grinding in your ways it will destroy your lathe.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ox

I didn't think of the grinding dust hurting the lathe...
True to form I have ideas but sometimes they're just too hard to implement.
I imagine some careful wrapping of the lathe's sensitive areas with saran wrap or something would help it, wouldn't it?  I mean, everything is basically possible, right?  It's simply a matter of how much you're willing to put up with!  :D
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Den-Den

two things:
Unless the steel and the lathe work is free, cutting 2" dia down to 1-7/16" over the whole length is more trouble than the steel is worth.

All steel alloys are very close to the same density, if this bar is much heavier than 2" dia cold rolled steel, it is most likely larger diameter than 2" diameter.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Kbeitz

Quote from: Ox on March 24, 2017, 09:28:48 AM
I didn't think of the grinding dust hurting the lathe...
True to form I have ideas but sometimes they're just too hard to implement.
I imagine some careful wrapping of the lathe's sensitive areas with saran wrap or something would help it, wouldn't it?  I mean, everything is basically possible, right?  It's simply a matter of how much you're willing to put up with!  :D

Yes you can do it... Better wear a dust mask. Your going to need a
few stones... I would say no way is it worth it. It take a long time to grind a shaft down. A few pieces of 4150 or cold roll wont cost you that much new.
But check out your local junk yards.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

york

you are going to hate me-Your shaft should be at least 1.5 inch-Forget the free 2in. shaft and go buy new shaft-What you intend to do is more trouble that it is worth....
Albert

Kbeitz

I'm using 30mm 4150 with no problems.

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

RazrRebel

Ok checked with a file. The file will cut it, so it's machineable. I know it's a lot to machine but the metal is free and the machining is free. Scrapyards around here won't let any metal go. It's a really rural area, and not a lot to pick from. Thanks for the help on figuring out what I had.

Ljohnsaw

It wouldn't be necessary to machine the entire rod.  Figure out what you need for length - probably only 2 feet each.  Then, machine one end just enough to fit your bearing (2"?).  The other end, machine probably 6 to 8" to fit through your bearing and protrude enough to mount your band wheel.  Never hurts to have more diameter on a shaft for strength!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Joe Hillmann

I don't think you need your shafts to be anywhere near 3 feet long.  16" should be long enough.  12"  may even be enough depending on how you design it.

Czech_Made

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 24, 2017, 12:28:49 PM
It wouldn't be necessary to machine the entire rod.  Figure out what you need for length - probably only 2 feet each.  Then, machine one end just enough to fit your bearing (2"?).  The other end, machine probably 6 to 8" to fit through your bearing and protrude enough to mount your band wheel.  Never hurts to have more diameter on a shaft for strength!

That!  8)

But you can buy shafting from McMaster, not that expensive.

Larry

A lot of thought and research is needed to build a mill.  The 4150 Kbeitz referenced is alloy steel.  Alloy steel is harder and has near twice the strength of common low carbon steels.  Alloy steel is much more expensive than low carbon and harder for some to machine.  BTW 4150 makes excellent AR barrels. :)

I'm guessing your shaft material is low carbon.  In any case an unknown steel.  1 7/16 is too small with low carbon.  I base my opinion on fact, not conjecture.  My first mill was a Kasco of a design similar to what you propose.  The first Kasco mills used 1 1/2" shafting which was too small.  Kasco replaced a lot of those shafts under warranty and went to 2" shafting.  Problem solved.

Another thought about your free shafting.  It will need to be perfectly straight with a consistent thickness within a few thousandths.  If not you could have vibration which will be a bear to track down.  A shaft that was previously used as a rock drill may bear checking closely.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

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