Price of a load of pine logs

[Arkyrick]

can someone give me an idea of what I should expect to pay for a truck load of pine logs in Arkansas? 

[richhiway]

White Pine around here (NY) is bringing 2 to $250.00 a thousand delivered to the mill. Here is a price list from VT.
http://northeasttimberexchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NTE-Saw-Logs-Prices-and-Specs-OCT-15-2020.pdf

You should be able to google timber prices and find a list in your area.

[Southside]

Lot of factors can come into play with that question.  How far are they coming from?  What grade and size are you looking for? How wet are things right now?  Are the competing mills full or hungry?  

Around here right now $42ish / ton will get you OK SYP logs, nothing spectacular, but decent.  Clear 4 sides with tight rings will be in the $60 range.  

[Texas Ranger]

Arkansas Timber Price Report

[GAB]

Lot of factors can come into play with that question.  How far are they coming from?  What grade and size are you looking for? How wet are things right now?  Are the competing mills full or hungry?  

Around here right now $42ish / ton will get you OK SYP logs, nothing spectacular, but decent.  Clear 4 sides with tight rings will be in the $60 range.  

Mr. Southside:
I see where going by the ton can reduce scaling errors big time.  However is there a scale or magic formula 
you can use to go from tons to board footage based on the number of logs and lengths of logs?
I would think that a one ton log would have more lumber in it than five 400 pounders with all six log being the same length.
GAB

[LeeB]

Arkansas Timber Price Report

Don,
I believe the prices in the linked report are for stumpage, or at least I have never been able to find any different in it.

[barbender]

GAB, if you know the green weight of the wood per cord, you can convert it. Red Pine up here is 4800 pounds per cord average, although nice older age logs probably are closer to 5000. A cord is 500 bf roughly, so 10,000 pounds per MBF. Or said another way 5 ton per MBF. I just paid $300/MBF for a load of Red Pine logs. So, I think that makes $60 per ton. As you can see, my math is kind of like taking the "scenic route" but I get there eventually😂

[Southside]

Well the answer - at least when it comes to SYP - is that "it depends".  You are correct that yield from the single log will likely be higher in terms of recovered BF, and especially clear lumber as an overall percentage, which is part of the reason grades are divided up by diameter as well as clear sides.  

SYP does something funny, at some point along the way while growing up, the portion of the log that would one day in the future become actual "heart pine" starts to become quite a bit less dense, almost like the tree is creating a vacant place to put away all of the toxic garbage when it becomes necessary.  Seems like this happens in 30+ year old trees.  It will involve the juvenile wood and some of that around it.  Get into 60 year old trees and you will being to see some actual heart wood develop in this area, not much, but some.  This void area - for lack of a better word - is noticeable lighter when you grab a board.  Once the heart shows up in it however it becomes just the opposite, noticeably heavier as the space is filled with resin. 

What I am getting at is this phenomenon will impact the weight / BF ratio of logs as they "mature" so any real magic formula would somehow have to account for the age range of the logs too.  There are metrics to average the ton / BF, but it's not an exact science for sure.  

For my area BF prices would be in the $250 - $360 MBF range for the logs I was talking about above.  Most outfits want to sell pine logs by the ton these days, some small guys are comfortable with stick scale, but the big outfits only understand ton and don't want anything else - which is FINE by me and I am happy to buy the grade logs I buy by the ton all day long - for the reasons I explained above.    

[WDH]

Timber market in Georgia all by the ton.  No scaling.  5 tons per MBF is a DanG good rule of thumb for sawing SYP on a band mill. 

[Texas Ranger]

Arkansas Timber Price Report

Don,
I believe the prices in the linked report are for stumpage, or at least I have never been able to find any different in it.

yep, but about the only source for a moderately fair price for timber.  Conversion is available.

[GAB]

Barbender, Southside, & WDH:
Thank you for the replies.
After I posted in this thread last night I got to thinking, (I know bad thing).
Pulled out my machinery's handbook and on page 1891 the first listing for SYP says 53#/cuft.
Then did some ciphering while making some assumptions and roundings off.
Assumed the mean diameter the entire length of the log.
Did not discount for the bark.
Used the Int'l 1/4 scale and interpolated.
Came up with:
A 2000# log @ 10' long has 37.736 cuft or ~312 bdft.
Five 400# logs @10' long have 7.547 cuft each for a total of ~ 262.5 bdft.
262.5/312=~ 84%
My conclusion based on my math (please note: when I went to school new math had not been thought of yet) 
for the same $/ton buy the larger logs as you will have a better yield.
GAB

[Arkyrick]

Great info and many different scenarios what does MBF stand for? 

[Arkyrick]

I Googled it 1,000 board ft.😁

[WDH]

Gerald,

You are right on.  There are more bf in a single log weighing 5000 pounds that in 20 logs each weighing 250 pounds. 

[Magicman]

Yes, the Roman numeral M = 1000.  There is no Roman numeral for a million so MM is commonly used.  


Actually MM seems to be my favorite number.

[barbender]

MMnMMnMMnMM is Donald Trump saying, "millions and millions and millions and..."😁

[Arkyrick]

Ive been sawing since 08 but have never ever had to buy logs so please understand my ignorance. Where do I start who do I call about purchasing a load of logs?

[mike_belben]

Anyone in the log business would be a lead.  Loggers, sawmills and equipment dealers are all gonna have industry contacts for you to start calling.  

Hey im so and so over in such and such location, im looking to buy a load of xyz and shopping around for a supplier, can you refer me to anyone? 

You can also put up a little paper ad at the cash register wherever these guys might be.  Saw shop for example. Wanted- pine sawlogs. Call me @...

[LeeB]

There is a mill in Clinton and another in Morning Star. Both do a fair volume of logs. I'm sure there are others closer to you.

[WDH]

It will be difficult to convince a logger to haul you a tractor trailer load of logs unless you have the equipment to unload a truck quickly and efficiently. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Arky,

  I would also check with my local Forestry Dept and maybe your USDA folks. The forestry people may have a list of approved loggers who have passed whatever certification requirements your state has. The USDA folks may point you to some big local landowners with woodlots who might be interested. If there is a local college with a forestry program they may know of/suggest sources as a way to help their alumni.

   Are you able to transport logs if required? Are you mobile and could you saw on a landowners site and transport the lumber if required?

   I backed into a source for logs a few weeks ago. I got a mobile call as a result of a demo/workshop I did for our local Forestry and USDA folks over a year ago. While sawing the customer asked me if I knew of anyone who wanted some poplar. He has 390 acres and lots of it is woods and he has poplar and maybe some oak he will sell. That night another customer called wanting poplar so I worked a deal with my sawing customer/landowner to fill the lumber buyer order. When we finished the sawing order he pulled up another few logs and we sawed the lumber customer 's order and he came and picked it up there. Basically the landowner provided the logs, MHE and helper labor to saw the lumber. I sawed the logs and paid him for the lumber. The landowner got the lumber price, I got a premium sawing fee and the lumber buyer got his lumber in short order. I may use him in the future as this worked well for all of us especially since I was already set up on site. In the future we have to work out the 25 mile trip and I have to decide whether to bring the logs here to saw them or take the mill to his place then have the buyer pick up the lumber there like we did this time. We need to work through those issues.

[Southside]

It can be an odd game.  I pay $15 more per ton than a mega mill 15 miles west of me for grade logs, and I can unload a semi in 20 minutes or less, no issue getting a truck in - but the other mill will also buy chip-n-saw and with prices being low all the guys in this area are up against it cash flow wise so they cut more wood and won't sort it.  Just toss it onto the truck and floor it to get to the mill, rinse and repeat.  

In an ironic twist I have had to fire back up my logging equipment and harvest some of my own timber.  I say ironic because I am swamped on the mill side of things and don't have enough time or help there and now I need to be in the woods too.  Oh well - better profit margin and it's land I wanted to open up anyway are the up sides.    

[mike_belben]

The inertia of habit i guess.  

[Arkyrick]

Great info guys Thanks and yes I can unload a truck👍👍👍

[Trackerbuddy]

When I've compared stumpage prices with delivered saw logs it appeared the difference was about $100/mbf. That's $20/ton delivered