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Sloppy day

Started by Jeff, November 25, 2020, 10:54:23 PM

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A-z farmer

Jeff 
On those  6 volt 8n ignition systems seem to get burned up by 12 volts .I put a resistor before the coil but mine is the front mount square coil.It seems those tractors run forever but I have had to replace points ,plugs and condenser many times over the years.Good luck 

Corley5

Throw the points and condenser away and switch it over to electronic. 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WmFritz

Now I'm thinking I should convert mine. She always starts, but for that first crank or two it's sounds iffy...Especially in the winter. 
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

hedgerow

Quote from: Magicman on November 27, 2020, 07:08:41 PM
Yup:  LINK
This makes a nice set up on the old tractors. I have one on a 3010 JD that's been on it for thirty years or so. If you add a resistor ahead of the coil the back firing will stop. Some will run ok with 12v to the coil and some won't . 

Jeff

This is madness.  New internally resisted coil. Same issue. Starts, wont run right.  Unhook the alternator,  

Put the included resistor in, it wont fire and start. Jump the resistor,  it starts, runs and backfires. remove the jumper from the resister, it sits there and runs and apparently charges fine. So it runs on the resistor but it won't start on the resistor.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Don P

I think Ford's and Dodges, maybe everything  ???, starts on 12 and runs on 6.

Corley5

We put the same 12v conversion kit on our late model side distributor 8N this fall.  We also installed a 12v negative ground Pertronix ignition.  I opted out of their brand coil and went with an internal resistor model from Car Quest and carbon plug wires and new Autolite plugs.  Started right up after we did a valve job too ;) ;D :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Don P

Here's what I'm remembering;


 

Jeff

8n has a 3 pole solenoid. 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Corley5

I'll have to look at mine.  We did away with the starter mounted solenoid and put one on the "firewall" by the battery.  I don't how many terminals it has  :) 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Gary_C

Jeff, I have been thru the same kind of issues with my IH 574 gas tractor. It's not running now because of engine and valve issues (it needs an overhaul) but in the fall going into winter it would not start nor run right and I would try every combination of coil with and without resistor. In the end I would find that the plugs were fouled some way and a new set of plugs would cure the problem. I think the problem may have to do with the seasonal change in the gas formulation from summer gas to fall gas and then to winter gas. The summer gas is less volatile to slow evaporation and apparently it does not burn as well in cold temps and will foul your plugs even though they don't look bad. So try fresh winter gas and new plugs.

Also many of those older tractors need a change in heat range of the plugs from original for todays gas. 
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Don P

Quote from: Jeff on November 29, 2020, 10:33:26 PM
8n has a 3 pole solenoid.
That 4 pole is cheap and will do what you have been jumpering. The ignition switch run position goes to a non resistor coil through the in line resistor, the I post on the ford solenoid also goes to the same post on the coil but shoots it 12V in the crank position.

The 6 volt was I think to cut down on distributor cap wear and arcing, it might be worth checking the condition of those parts.

Jeff

I am beginning to think the alternator is the culprit.  I have been through everything. The only real thing you need to do to make the tractor run right is disconnect the alternator. It then runs fine, starts fine.   I unhooked the wire going from the one wire alternator to the amp meter, and there is over 30volts coming out of the alternator. the meter is correct. It reads 12 coming from the battery.  
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Don P

Hook it back up and check the voltage across the battery terminals both before starting and with it running. You should see an increase of a couple of volts with it running. I think spinning it open circuit it goes wild until it lets the magic smoke out. Or take it off and take it into an auto parts that can hook it up and test it.

Tacotodd

The battery acts as a kind of buffer for easing the voltage spikes. A non buffered alt. will cause an excessive amount of voltage to be seen. 

Like Don P said, magic smoke 💨 
Trying harder everyday.

Jeff

14 with it hooked up, still runs like crap. I cant see anything with the cap or rotor.  I think the plugs are starting to foul now from repeated attempts at running and running poorly. So the alternator is not it.

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tacotodd

IF, and this is a big if, IF you can't get it running by PIG ROAST 2021, then you'll have a lot of people that are more than willing to help you out!

But you'll get that thing nailed down before that. We have the utmost confidence in you. After all, you are the midget doctor!
Trying harder everyday.

Jeff

Which, revealed publicly here, for the first time means. "I have very little patience" :)


Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Don P

 :D Auto electric is black magic.

Let me run through what I think you have and an experiment.
I think right now you are running without the ballast resistor? If so I think with the 12 volts, battery only, you are running a hot distributor cap but its working. When the alternator bumps that up a little more the fire is dancing in the cap and hitting several plugs out of sequence.

If all that is right put the ballast resistor back in the circuit. You should then run better but will need to jumper around the resistor to start it. As soon as it fires up remove the jumper. If in that experiment it starts and runs fine, go work it and make sure it performs well under load.

If that all goes well then get the 4 post solenoid and run a wire from its "I" post to the coil + and leave the other wire there as well. That will give it a 12V shot for cranking and resisted voltage when you come off the cranking button.

Or, I'm all wet  :D

Jeff

I already know that ot runs with the resistor, but wont start with it, and I have a 4 peg solenoid here that fits the mustang. Ill try a new cap and rotor first.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Gary_C

You may have a bad ground on your alternator. Check the continuity of the ground all the way from the alternator to the battery.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Jeff

I have a running working tractor.  Don't know what happened.  I got it running on the jumped resister, removed the jumper and let it run half throttle for 10 minutes. When I shut it off, it niw starts without the jumper, and runs really good. I just came in from plowing. Tractor started up at 15° and never missed a lick in the 40 minutes I was plowing.  I have the electronic ignition here I plan on putting in when I'm confident my gremlin is gone.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

She started at 8° this morning. Pretty good for a tractor that wouldn't ever start without heat from about october to May before!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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