Does anyone have experience with using B56 belts on the blade wheels of a Wood-Mizer or other sawmills? When I'm sawing some softwoods (white pine, spruce, poplar...) sawdust buildup under the B57s can be a real pain. Have to clean then out every blade change or two sometimes. I worked for WM in B.C. a couple years back and remember some guys using them sawing cedar, as it was bad for plugging up the sawdust chute and packing in under the belts. Some guys just cut off the fingers in there...
I remember there was a couple types of belts and some had quite an installation procedure to get them on the wheels and "balanced" properly in the shivs. Might have to get ahold of the B.C. crew... Anyone got any ideas?
I run my belts tight, they are likely B-56's. It never made any sense to me why WM spec'ed oversize belts. I know a lot of guys still run them.
Do not cut the fingers out of the chute. Very dangerous idea if you ask most operators.
Joe
Got my sawmill with belts grabbing tight on the wheel, B-56 I think. Hard to get them off (with a knife) and even to put a new on (without a knife). I only did that once. Also spent some time taking sawdust out from under the belts. >:(
Had heard about and seen belts hanging lose so I put SPB-1600 on second time and it works good for me.
SP-belts has a higher profile than A- or B- belts. Gives more crowning and I THINK they last longer before worn out. Think WM says 400 hrs. for the belts and I use mine longer.
Swede.
8) 8) i use a matched set of bx 56 i had not noticed dust problem i think grip notch belts that exactly same length work better then trying to replace them one at a time right or wrong :P :P
I run all my belts tight B 56 on LT40 and B72 on the LT70 that keeps the sawdust from under the belts. I have cut the little fingers out of the sawdust chute on my mill as when I am cutting cypress it will fill up the chute. I don't recomend it unless you have to and then keep a very close eye on the sawdust area and make sure know one gets in there in case a blade breaks.
Thanks guys, fast responses ;D
BTW, my sawdust chute fingers are intact. We take the ol girl to the odd show here and there and need all the factory safety stuff intact (insurance guys have no sense of humor). The biggest problem I remember hearing was getting the belts even in the shiv on the wheel.
Quote from: Polly on February 03, 2007, 02:59:05 PM
i use a matched set of bx 56 i had not noticed dust problem i think grip notch belts that exactly same length work better
maybe the b
x belts would settle in better than a non-segmented belt. What brand are these, Goodyear?
Quote from: Swede on February 03, 2007, 12:19:00 PM
I put SPB-1600 on second time and it works good for me.
SP-belts has a higher profile than A- or B- belts. Gives more crowning and I THINK they last longer before worn out.
What is the difference in the SP belt? What's the brand and where do you get em?
I remember hearing about some kind of poly belt, too....
A-profile has a width of 13 mm and is 8 mm high (1/2"x1/3" or so)
B-belt is 17x11mm
SPA=12,7x10mm
SPB=16,3x13mm
A SP-belt goes longer into the track and can force 1/3 more power from a driving wheel or to a driven weel. A track for a SP-belt need to be deeper so the belt doesn´t reach the bottom.
I think most brands make these an a lot of other belts. Good Year, Dunlop, Optibelt.........
Z-belt is 10x6mm
C-belt is 22x14 mm
D-belt is 32x20 mm
1"=25,4 mm ;)
Swede.
Swede: What the heck is a monkey blade??? :D :D
Thanks for the input.
LT40HDD51:
What´s a WoodMizer? ;D
Monkeys is The Most Celebrated Brand of Blades! ;)
http://www.munkforssagar.se/
I don´t remember where to buy them in US, think one of the sponsors here can help You.
Swede.
That's pretty cool Swede, I love finding out about new stuff to look at on the 'net.
Hey Swede
How you doing ??? :)
have run B56 for last 7 or 8 years no build up and they last longer. Very hard to replace.
Where do you guys get the belts? What brands? I know you need one with a nice flat back where they join the belt together. Most belts are designed to drive something, not have a blade run on its back...
Quote from: LT40HDD51 on February 04, 2007, 11:56:48 AM
Where do you guys get the belts? What brands? I know you need one with a nice flat back where they join the belt together. Most belts are designed to drive something, not have a blade run on its back...
When I had my LT40, I used Goodyear 85590 belts. These are just a heavy duty B56 but a tad longer. Easier to put on than a regular B56.
Putting the shorter belts on can be a task. I learned a few tricks, one of them, was when levering the last bite on to the pulley, I would twist the belt around 90 degrees in the appropriate direction(with plyers) so when I levered it on, the belt would snap in correctly as opposed to all up-screwed(thats "screwed up", screwed up). :D :D :D
LT
I run a WM LT 40 with a Kohler 25 but with only 275 hrs on have never had to replace the belts for the blade wheels. They are starting to scream a lot lately when I cut hardwoods. Does this means I should be changing them? I am assuming they are B57's, given they appear loose on the blade wheels. Build up has really never been a problem except when I really run the water cutting hardwoods. Thanks, Rob.
if you hear belts screaming, you need to tighten your drive belt. A slipping drive belt will build up heat, and eat itself quicker than normal, will also cause blade dive or rise by letting the blade lose speed during the cut.
The B57's are the belts used as tires for the band to run on. Most guys seem to get by just fine with the B57 belts, I have been running them since 01 and have not had any buildup problems, may be due to species we saw. I saw very little softwoods or cedar, most all hardwoods, majority cherry, oak and maple.
I don't have any experience with B56 belts, have never run them myself, but have heard some guys swear by them. From what I hear most everyone that uses them swears at them when putting them on. :)
8) 8) GOODYEAR GATES BROWNING ANY GOOD GRADE BELT WILL WORK EXCEPT WHEN YOU ORDER THEM SPECIFY YOU WANT ONLY A MATCHED SET MEANING THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME LENGTH SORRY ABOUT CAPS I WASNT WATCHING WHAT I WAS TRYING TO TYPE :-[ :-[ :-[ 8) 8)
I don't think it's that critical. I once in desperation put B58's on my mill. worked fine until I broke a blade. End of the broken blade ran under the belt and things rapidly turned into a real mess. The only time I have trouble with buildup on the belts is when I get careless and let stuff build up on the blade.
WM recommends browning or goodyear because the outside is flat (no crown) thus has more surface in contact with the blade.
Ditto the previous post. If you hear squealing, it's the main drive belt, not the B57.
I run B57 belts on mine without buildup and I saw anything the customer throws at me except balsam poplar. My problem is this town has very few places that even carry the B57 belt. Those that would are often out of stock when I need them so I buy whatever brand someone has. WHAT A DIFFERENCE THERE IS IN BELT LIFE! Some will last for a couple of years while other brands will wear out in a couple of months. Same goes for the alternator belt. I can wear one brand out so quickly while another will last and last. :o :(
Thanks fellers, youve been really helpful. I'm gonna try a set here soon. I've found NAPA is pretty good here, can get belts in pretty quick. Bought a set of big C170 or something belts from them for our big ol 12" Asplundh war machine ;D
Quote from: BBTom on February 04, 2007, 02:50:57 PM
if you hear belts screaming, you need to tighten your drive belt. A slipping drive belt will build up heat, and eat itself quicker than normal, will also cause blade dive or rise by letting the blade lose speed during the cut.
For sure... :) Common phantom problem.
Hey Percy, say hi to Marv and the boys from the N.S. crew next time you call em ;D
I have had good luck getting the B57's at O'rielly auto parts. Tractor supply usualy has some but they arn't very good. LeeB
Quote from: LT40HDD51 on February 04, 2007, 04:27:30 PM
Hey Percy, say hi to Marv and the boys from the N.S. crew next time you call em ;D
Ill do that for sure......uuhh...Is your name really LT40HDD51?? :D :D :D Anyways ol Sherlock Marv will figure it out... ;D
I'm probably one of the only young fellers he knows in these parts ;D I worked for him for about a year a while back. Good feller, have known him forever. Gave me a job right out of high school, learned a lot from him. Tell him Ian says hello :)
I used to answer the question about the B57 and B56 belts, but found that there has been more interest in changing recommended equipment by the newer operators. Some species will pack sawdust under a loose belt. Still, in my opinion, it doesn't mean that the loose belt is an incorrect choice.
Well Tom now that you brought it up, what do you think the purpose or benefits of the loose belts are. I ask because I have been running tight belts for quite awhile and it always runs so smooth and never any negatives. What am i missing? Joe
You can read the benfits and problems of both in a lot of the old threads, but, to answer your question, it basically boils down to the ease of belt removal and re-installation. I don't think I've ever been told the reasons loose belts were recommended, just told that B57's were the recommended belt.
I have been told that it is recommended that the belts be swapped from the power wheel to the idle wheel and back at regular intervals through their life. It is supposed to give longer longivity and, I think, a better traction on the power side. Tight bands make this recommended procedure difficult.
In my limited experience of running tight bands, I found that the sawdust got under them too. Not as bad you understand, but enough to cause a vibration and I couldn't clean them. I decided that the tight belts weren't worth whatever problem they were supposed to fix.
I'm not against anyone using any belt they want. I'm not selling B57's either. It's just my opinion that I haven't benefitted from changing from the B57s that Wood Mizer recommended to me..
I run B57's and use about 5 or 4 sets a year. ( i saws alot) I swap them from side to side about every other blade change and make sure there is no packed dust under them. I saw alot of SYP and ERC and get alot of packing in the spring. The belt being loose allows the heat build up to vent and keeps some of the sawdust "flapped" off the belt. When I change out belts I keep the old set around so if I cut one when a blade breaks (done it more then once on road jobs) I have a back up.
Pa always said "If'n it's a working, don't mess with it!"
QuoteIt's just my opinion that I haven't benefitted from changing from the B57s that Wood Mizer recommended to me..
OK Tom, Now I'm confused (some days it doesn't take much). According to the 'other' thread, the Baker Boy's run off with your mill. Here in this thread you quote Wood-Mizer. Is it Orange or Blue, or
both ? Or did the Baker Boy's want to get ahold of a Wood-Mizer?
Dr. Buck,
I'd have one of every mill made if I had the room and more than one set of hands. :D My LT40 was a sawing machine. My knees and shoulders gave out or it would be doing jobs around the house now. I got the Baker because I could run it sitting down. My Chicken farmer customers wanted longer 1x4's too. It made that Baker awful appetizing. :)
I guess I'm more into gett'n the job done than what color the equipment happens to be.
I'm driving a Ford since Christmas. I've owned a Plymouth (53), Buick(37), Oldsmobile 88(5?) Ford Skyliner(58), Volkswagen bug(58), Chevelle(67) Ford Wagon (69), Ford 450 Dump, Toyota corrolla wagon 72, Ford pickup(74), Toyota Pickup (88), Chev Kodiak (93) Dodge Intrepid (99), GMC Suburbon (99), and now a Ford Expedition(05).
I feel like a chameleon but I got the vehicles to do a job. My Favorite was that 53 plymouth. I'd drive one again, but I can't find a Plymouth dealer. My least favorite was the Dodge Intrepid. That thing belonged in someone else's driveway. The dealer too.
I think I'm going to like this Expedition. It'll do everything but make breakfast.
That Kodiak is still one heck of a truck. I found out that it's a hybrid though. When you buy a truck like that, it's like playing with tinker toys. It's a conglomeration of Allison, GM, Caterpillar and I don't who else.
So, Brand really boils down to who has the best moustrap, service and salesman.
I can't compare the bandwheel tires on the Wood Mizer and the Baker 'cause the Baker has steel wheels. The blade runs on crowns and the crowns have to be redone now and again. How often? I don't know. I have run this Baker 3638 since "99 and the blade still tracks fine. I've noticed that a fine layer of sawdust will build on the wheel and maybe that protects it from wear some. I'll find out when I find my mill. :D
Naw, I know where it is. Mike McNail has it. What I don't know is what he and my wife are up to.
:-\ :-\ Now you know I don't mean that. :-\ :-\ :D
One thing I've discovered is that there are more differences in band mills than one might see on first blush. They all have in common two things, the goal to saw green logs and the use of a band.
How they drive and control that band can be as different as night and day. The rest of the sawmill is pretty much for the operators benefit. The best choice an owner can make is to choose one that will continue doing its primary job (sawing logs) even when one of those operator-benefit accessories breaks. What he depends on from the "Brand" is design engineering and support. That way, he can do his primary tasks which are to sell and saw.
QuoteOr did the Baker Boy's want to get ahold of a Wood-Mizer?
I'll bet Woodmizer might own a Baker, and it wouldn't surprise me if Baker didn't own a woodmizer. Bet you'll never find them though. :D :D :D
QuoteHey Swede
How you doing
Not doing so much now. Some sawing and some air compressorjobs beside all papers to make in order this time at the year.
Had some intresting days visiting Hungary last week.
Perhaps I´ve better make some drawings and send there, scragg sawmill for small logs and a low weigt skidder. Cost nothing to produce down there. ;)
Couldn´t see 10 logs a day worth rolling up on the loglift. ::) A realy poor country!
Swede.
Quote from: Tom on February 05, 2007, 11:52:04 AM
I can't compare the bandwheel tires on the Wood Mizer and the Baker 'cause the Baker has steel wheels.
Tom, would you rather be running on tires or steel and why? And I don't mean brand comparison as I think all of the manufactures have tried both, with some switching back and forth.
8) 8) to find v belts go to your local industrial supply house if you dont know location ask someone that works in a local factory cincy ohio area would be cincy belting and transmission located on 6th st they ship ups their are several more i personally like these people :) :)
I am not very smart, so I must be missing somethin here. Why should I look all over for belts when I can go on the WM Customer Gateway site, click on bladewheel belts and order a pair of belts that WM puts on their new mills and recommends for use on all LT40's. I do this from my warm house at about the same price ($11.50 ea plus shipping on website) as the local NAPA that sells roundtop belts that don't work well. I used about 4 sets last year on 200K BF of pine and oak sawing, not one of my larger expense items.
I'm a firm believer in standing behind a valued manufacturer, but sometimes it's nice to know where you can find parts in your home town. :)
I have 380 hours on my LT40 and am still using the same blade that came on it!
Well....maybe not the same blade but I am using the same belts :D :D
That mill will last a long time like that. Do you idle a lot? :D
I've used B57 since '93 on my mill , now some where from WM , some from NAPA ,both worked fine for me .
I dont understand why someone would want or need a matched set of belts for a mill , you need a matched set if you are using the belts on the same pully turning the same other pully , the matched set , for those who do not understand the principal of it , is matched belts are of the same series and same lenght so as one does not tighten more then the other and does not wear faster , both having the same pressure aplied to them . This for the aplication it is being used for is useless .
When I bought my mill , the drive belt was a two belt system ... these you needed a matched set for ..... that was before they started using the doubled up belt they use now .
10-4, isawlogs. On our chipper we have (4) c170s running from a 300 ford to a 12" drum, they need to be matched lengths so they are all the same "tightness". Blade wheel belts dont (theyre already loose...), and they don't need to be worn the same amount, either. Your blade guides are holding the blade down a bit further than the bottom of the wheels. WM recommends 1/4" of "downpressure"...
Quote from: wwsjr on February 05, 2007, 05:28:40 PM
...I can go on the WM Customer Gateway site, click on bladewheel belts and order a pair of belts that WM puts on their new mills and recommends for use on all LT40's...
Yeah, I know what you mean. :) I can literally go upstairs in the barn and grab myself a fresh pair of B57s right off the WM shelf ;D Personally for the most part, I use mainly all factory parts on my mill (not trying to do any advertisin here... :)). Aftermarket stuff, of course, has to be up to OE snuff no matter what the manufacturer or application. I bought a battery for my mill when the original died in the middle of a job. Called up and found out what industrial batterys WM recommends for replacement and got one of them from NAPA.
The original want or need for a tight belt (and reason for this thread) comes from sawing certain species where sap and sawdust build up under the belt really badly. Sawing some woods with 13 degree blades, I have to remove the belts every blade change and clean the shivs (=cold fingers these days ;D). WM leaves them loose so you can rotate them, and so you can replace them easily if a blade breaks and cuts one (B57s are something you should always have extras of, wherever you get them from, for the price). Its the most user friendly and as people have said, most dont have trouble with the buildup. Some do. Ive personally told some of our own customers who like using the B56s for this reason, to keep doing it. Whatever it is, if it works, i say keep doing it :) I just wanted some feedback on the tight belts :o ;D
Has anyone ever used a neoprene or urethane belt?
Hello Folks...just got a new NAPA B72 belt for my mill. Question....when I look at the cross section, the top of belt (which saw blade will ride over top of) looks just ever so slightly crowned..am I being a bit worried for nothing....cause once saw blade is tensioned, I'm thinking it will actually flatten down? Am I thinking correctly.
Thanks
It's supposed to be crowned. That makes the blade track correctly.
In a conversation I once had with a Gates representative He said that the manufacturing process had improved to the point where buying a matched set was no longer necessary but from a marketing standpoint if that was what the customer wanted they made them available.
Quote from: SawyerTed on May 10, 2020, 08:11:23 PM
It’s supposed to be crowned. That makes the blade track correctly.
I disagree. My understanding is WM advises and they supply flat surfaced B-57 belts to get the most traction on the blade. Sorry - no offence intended.
None taken I've been wrong before and can be corrected.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 10, 2020, 08:43:55 PM
Quote from: SawyerTed on May 10, 2020, 08:11:23 PM
It's supposed to be crowned. That makes the blade track correctly.
I disagree. My understanding is WM advises and they supply flat surfaced B-57 belts to get the most traction on the blade. Sorry - no offence intended.
It's interesting when I bought my mill in 1994 Woodmizer actually recommended belts with a crown on them. If memory is correct it was Browning that was one of the brands recommended and I think Goodyear as well back then. I found it odd when I got replacements from Woodmizer one time and they were flat back ones. I phoned about it and asked about that and they said it has changed.
My mill manual in the troubleshooting section for poor blade tracking it states one of the reasons could be flat belts.
Regardless, the new belts they supply work great so either way would work I'd say.
Yup, Wood-Mizer's B57's are specially manufactured for them and they are flat. They are the only belts that I have actually used. I say "used" because for some unknown reason I tried the orange belts once which were a total failure.
You are correct donbj, but I suppose R&D led them to the present B57's.
Quote from: Magicman on May 10, 2020, 10:51:07 PM
Yup, Wood-Mizer's B57's are specially manufactured for them and they are flat. They are the only belts that I have actually used. I say "used" because for some unknown reason I tried the orange belts once which were a total failure.
You are correct donbj, but I suppose R&D led them to the present B57's.
Yes, they don't shy away from the R&D that's for sure. The surface contact and traction makes sense, especially for some of those beasts that drift across your mill!
I've been using round top belts for over 15000 hours with no problems, steel wheels are crowned. Steve
The belt situation is not as simple as it seems. One argument says use B56 belts that fit tight so sawdust won't build up in the groove. The other side says loose B57's leave a way for the sawdust to get OUT. Been my experience if you get sawdust buildup under the belt, you have other problems. Flat versus crowned..Mount a blade over a crowned belt, apply normal blade tension..Now look under the blade...What crown. It's mashed flat by 2000 lbs of pressure. The crown is mashed flat and the released every revolution of the bandwheel. All that flexing leads to a much shortened lifespan. The real gotcha is a different internal construction. Slice across an old crowned belt so you can see the internal structure. The cords are in the sidewalls, none under the crown. Compare to a flat top belt, there is a layer of cords under the flat top. Again, experience the woodmizer belts will outlast the parts store ones by a large margin. Cheaper is more expensive in the long run.
Very true, Piney! thumbs-up
I've most always used the Wood-Mizer B-57 belts, except one time I had a blade break and took out the idle-side belt!
I went to the parts store and picked up a regular B-57 to get by with until I could order another pair from Wood-Mizer!
The parts store belt worked fine, and I only had about 1,200-1,500 feet to go on that job. The belt looked severely worn when the new belts arrived 2 days later!
As Piney stated, the parts store belt does a lot more flexing and it's lifespan will be much shorter!
Lets keep a couple things straight, B56 belts do not get sawdust under them ever. I run any old B56 and they last a LONG time. Maybe with the B57 going in and out of the wheel is hard on belts. Steve
Thanks fellows for all the input on belts whether B57s, B72s etc.,. See what we can do in this country when you put smart brains together......
Has anyone experienced a broken belt? I did last week. I dug out a piece of pine knot with a screw driver that was lodged in the wheel groove. I assume that was the cause. I replace it with an old one that I saved from last belt change.
When I get new belts, they will come from WM. I don't feel like experimenting with other sources.
do the WM belts fit the surplus center sheaves just as well as the sheaves WM uses?