Contracting someone to cut Firewood?

[HappyValley]

I would like to contract some people to cut, split and stack firewood by the cord.  Has anyone ever done something like this?  My thought would be if they are contracted, using there own equipment, I would not need to provide workmans comp or any other type of insurance, correct?  At the end of the year I would provide a 1099 for taxes, correct?  All wood will be cut, split, and stacked here on the farm.  I have 200 acres of timber and I am located in Tennessee.  Also, if this is true, could I provide use of  tractors, trucks, wood splitter, ect. and would they still be considered a 1099 contracted employee?

[BradMarks]

Pretty sure they would not be considered a contractor if you provided any equipment and the only workplace is your farm. This has been covered in a recent thread of contractor vs. employee.

[Gearbox]

OOOOh ya hang onto your wallet when one of them get hurt . The only way is if you have a current proof of work comp from there insurer .

[hedgerow]

Good luck finding some folks that would do that. Around here that type of help is not available. On my farm it gets tricky with insurance and contract help. Insurance company's are a bear to work with.   

[TKehl]

Will they be cutting for your use or cutting for you to store and sell?

If for your personal use, than 200 acres will supply way more than you need.  You could consider offering "free" wood on shares.  You get half the wood perhaps.

[glassman_48]

HappyValley,
I am a sponsor in here (northern michigan firewood products) I sell brute force firewood processors.  My company takes a firewood processor on site along with a tractor and forks to load my processor.  My employee has workmens comp. insurance in case he gets hurt on jobsite.  If we charge 500 bucks a day as an example and I pay my employee $100 dollars as an example then my workmens comp is approximately 10% of his wage or 10 bucks.  Its not worth it for me to go without workmens comp.  In northern michigan most guys get a minimum of 400 dollars if the customer has a machine to load the log deck.  If I take my own tractor and another guy we charge accordingly.  If you let people on your property to cut wood on shares with their own equipment and they get hurt you will probably have some liability.  I am hoping an attorney could comment if they are reading your thread.

[Warped]

Second to consulting an attorney I'd check the local library for West's Law. I'll see if I can dig mine out, there's a few good cases if I recall addressing things such as equipment and tools and pay consistency i.e. cutting them a weekly check, pay per hour and such. If the library doesn't have it a local college that offers business classes likely would, you probably can't check it out but could read it on campus.

Could also hire a portable mill and say he was really bad and turned everything into firewood :D

[John Mc]

You could consider offering "free" wood on shares.  You get half the wood perhaps.

If the landowner is keeping half the wood on shares, the person doing the work is really getting the short end of the stick. Around here, standing firewood (i.e. trees that are not good for saw logs) goes for about $20 per full cord - and that's IF there is good access. Cut, split and fully seasoned you can easily sell it for $300-$350/cord (green, maybe $225-$250)

[Rick Alger]

I believe the way to avoid paying worker's comp while getting  firewood from your land is to sell the stumpage to a contractor and then buy back some of the finished product.  As long as the contractor has other buyers beside yourself, I think you'd be clear of liability.

I agree with John that a fifty-fifty split is unlikely.  I did a few little projects like this back in the day.  Rough figures on the costs per cord to process, back when firewood sold for  80 to 90 a cord were- stumpage 5- 10, cut and skid 35, buck, split and stack to measure 25. (trucking ate up the rest)  These figures don't work today, but the ratio might be applicable for discussion purposes.

[John Mc]

I believe the way to avoid paying worker's comp while getting  firewood from your land is to sell the stumpage to a contractor and then buy back some of the finished product.  As long as the contractor has other buyers beside yourself, I think you'd be clear of liability.

Be careful with this. If you hire a contractor who does not have worker's comp on themselves and their employees, you can be liable if they get hurt wile working on your property. How this liability works varies from state to state, so you really want to check with someone knowledgeable with your state's laws in this regard.

[Rick Alger]

I stand corrected. Thank you, John. I should have said, fully insured contractor.

[John Mc]

I figured you probably meant that, Rick. I just thought I'd mention it, because sometimes people take a big risk without realizing it.

Last I checked in VT, if you were a sole proprietor, you did not need to have worker's comp insurance. However, that does not necessarily let the landowner off the hook if you hurt yourself.

I've also heard of more than one case of a contractor showing expired proof of insurance or insurance paperwork for some other business when asked to show coverage. When in doubt, call the insurance company on the paperwork and ask about coverage - and be sure to be clear about exactly who is covered.