Sawmill Shootout

[Tom]

The magazine Sawmill & Woodlot is supposed to be reporting on the last shootout but I have noticed an obvious lack of interest on wood sites this year.

Last year there was a lot of hype.

Is it my imagination, do folks not really care, or is it that the shootout is seen as entertainment rather than a test of sawmills?

[Jeff]

What is a shootout?

[Tom]

It was someone's (?)  idea to invite ($) manufacturers of portable sawmills to a site setup with similar logs and get them to compete for "who is the best".

Catagories have been in setup speed, sawing speed, accuracy, volume etc.

Wood Mizer won it then Baker won it and the talk I hear is that Timber Harvester won it this year but there have been conflicting reports with Lucas being mentioned.

They (?) are trying to make this a BIG annual affair.

[Kevin_C]

Actually there is more than one shoot-out.  The first one was in Bangor ME, co-sponsored by Ind. Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine, Northern Logger Magazine, and the NE Forest Products Equipment Expo.  You are correct, Wood-Mizer won that event (and has not competed since).  However, after that event in 1999, the Redwood Region Logging Conference also started a shoot-out at their show in 2000.  Lucas won that event, and won again this year.  Competitors for that event have been very limited, but that may be where the "Lucas won" came from.  The NE shoot-out was actually won last year by a circular mill from Europe. Baker finished second but was the first bandsaw.  And this year, they broke the group up into classes and instituted some rule changes.  Timber Harvester was the overall winner.  

[Tom]

Hey Kevin,  welcome to the Forestry Forum.  I always wondered what the manufacturers gained by a 'shootout'.  If they win they advertise and if they lose they L-O-S-E !!

Do you have a Woodmizer?  I see you have a Woodmizer email address is that a medal they pin on your shirt?  

[TnSawyer]

we dont care tom.  we just dont care.

[Bibbyman]

After the earlier Shootouts there was a chart published with all the statistics gathered from all of the mills competing.  An overall winner was named but about every mill in the Shootout had some category they could claim some victory.  So in the ads you’d see things like “Best recovery rating”, “Highest board feet per hour”, “0 miss-cuts”, and so on.  I’ve not seen such a chart published for the last Shootout.

Also,  the program has evolved into more of a side by side demo rather than a heads down competition.  Manufactures entered more than one mill in different classes and in some setups,  edgers were added. I think Wood-Mizer had an LT70 with an edger in one entry, an LT40 and LT28 and an LT15 in yet another.  (This is where I noted on the Forum that WM used extra sections of bed on the LT15 and sawed the log on the forward sections while the offbearer positioned flitches to be edged on the back section.  Pretty clever idea!)

I wasn’t there to watch the Shootout.  The only account I’ve read was published in the Summer 2007 issue of the Wood-Mizer Way.  Of course the article was all about the Wood-Mizer teams and how they did. 

Link to Wood-Mizer Way

[Part_Timer]

Tom


I'm going to take a beating for my .02 worth but here it is anyways.

I was at one (1) shootout and thought some of the teams did a disservice to some of the mills.  The folks on the teams were so focused on times that the miscut rate tremendous.  When the stats were published some very good mills looked very bad.

I don't pay attention to the shootout because it is not always a true representation of what the mills are capable of.

Just my .02

[Jeff]

I dont think so Part_Timer.  I'm in complete agreement. HOWEVER, its a heck of a good excuse to go see a bunch of mills running in one place.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

It is a good marketing angle, but it is easy to see that the pitfalls
of the shoot-out are tricky.

Often, the best people you could have to do serious competition are
the people who run mills hard everyday.   Sometimes it seems that
the ones running in the shoot-outs may be knowledgeable, but not
the best choice.   Perhaps manufacturers should have their candidates
compete in a "playoff" before showing the mill in public.   They might
want to saw identical logs (or as close as possible) to what will be sawn
at the shootout.   (Of course, that means time, preparation, money, oops.)

On the other hand,...
I remember one mill falling short, believe it or not, because the scale sticker
on a dial had been adhered with a built-in error which made every board off,
yet no one caught it in time to adapt.  Hey I have had customers call me to
task with their measuring tape and straighten me out.  The real world teaches
fast and teaches hard.


Phil L.

[Part_Timer]

It is a great place to get your hands on all the mills.  I liked being able to walk back and forth trying to make up my mind.

[Kelvin]

One thing that i don't quite get is there are no prices on anything.  It would be nice to compare some things, and its hard to find out very fast on your own.  Same with the splitters.  I"d simly like to know how much, and for add ons.  The magazine does a good job in its normal reviews of equipment they present having the info.  Thats what kills me on shows like "This old house"  They barely ever mention anything about cost.  "whoa, that would cost a lot Kevin!"  How much?  Augh.  I guess it could only have something to do with different mark ups or something from different sales points?  Oh, well.  Its good to see the different numbers on mills.  One thing they didn't explain was the 23% over run with the skillmill.  Quite odd, but no explaination in the magazine that i saw.  Most circular blades are taking out a bigger kerf, and it does seem they have lower recovery in general, but skillmill had the highest of them all.  What accounts for it?  Oh, well.
KP

[Bibbyman]

One guess on the Skillmill overrun.  Did they happen to get small logs?  It's easier to get big overun numbers when sawing small logs scaled on the Doyle scale.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

That is interesting about the recovery rate with the SkilMill.
I would assume that the tiny blade on the SkilMill is about 1/8" kerf,
so the high recovery wouldn't be too tough.   All of the swingblade
designs are capable of very good recovery in the part of a log that
would be slabbed off by some bandmillers.   That would be particularly
true if, they are operating without an edger, or are in a hurry and don't
want to be dealing with edging groups of flitches on the mill by resawing them.

You can waste a slab on a swinger, too, but it is very easy to get the "goody"
out of that part of the log,...
if you make the effort, and ...
if you artfully skim just
under the bark for those extra boards!  

My 10" Peterson has a kerf over a 1/4", but the same basic principal - relating
to recovery - applies.    I can sometimes make up for the kerf by getting those
extra very high quality clear boards just under the bark.  (Often too narrow for FAS,
but great for molding quality stuff!)

Phil L.

[Brad_S.]

I wonder if Tom still feels this way. The original post was 6 years ago!

[Bibbyman]

I wonder if Tom still feels this way. The original post was 6 years ago!

I didn't even see how old the original posts were!  TnSawyer sure went back a long ways to find this one.

[Cedarman]

I'm with bibbyman on this one.  Didn't even notice the 01 posting.  Nice thing about getting older, everything is starting to look new.

[Bibbyman]

I'm with bibbyman on this one.  Didn't even notice the 01 posting.  Nice thing about getting older, everything is starting to look new.

I only got about a dozen books.  When I get them read I just start over again. 

[Brad_S.]

What is a shootout?

I looked at the date line after reading "Guest" Jeff B asking what a shootout was.

[Jeff]

Yea, you know its old when you see me as a guest.  Thats way back in the early days when I inadvertently deleted myself with the original software.