Making sips?

[Satamax]

Hi everybody.

Well, i've seen how they're done vaguely on youtube.

I was wondering if i could make my own.

I mean, there's nobody in my part of france who makes any. The last i knew about, on the other side of the country, has taken the plunge. So there could be a market.

Ok, they sell big machinery to make them etc. But is it realy that complicated to glue osb to styrofoam?  I don't think so.

Ho do they treat the joints between the osb pannels? I mean, a wall 30' long by 10' high, or more isn't cut in a single pannel of osb!

If anybody can give advice, shed some light, steer me to places of interest.

Thanks a lot.

Max.

[jdtuttle]

Look at this site http://www.murus.com/
I used their panels on my post & beam addition. I also had the opportunity to visit the plant. The joints are filled with expandable foam to seal any air leaks.
jim

[Satamax]

Hi JD, thanks for replying, but what does this have to do with my questions?

[bigshow]

there were no visible OSB joints in my SIPS.  I think the longest was was 24' long by 8' wide.  Someone out there is making OSB 8' wide and incredibly long lengths.

[jdtuttle]

Ho do they treat the joints between the osb pannels? I mean, a wall 30' long by 10' high, or more isn't cut in a single pannel of osb!

Sorry thought I was ;)
The site has alot of information about sips.
jim

[bigshow]

taken from the Murus website:

Why is OSB used instead of plywood?
OSB is more desirable for panel skins because it is available in large-format sizes up to 24' in length. It is also flatter and more resistant to delamination.

[Thehardway]

Satamax,

Your question requires some additional details.  There is a great deal of difference between building an insulated sandwich panel and building a Structural Insulated Panel (SIP)  Structural panels require a engineered design and guarantee of structual performance to a specific standard.  It is achieved through assembly in a controlled environment (temperature, humidity, dust, etc,) and very rigid QC and testing standards.

True structural panels can span long distances to make floors and roofs without joist support and walls with no internal support members.  I do not see you being able to replicate this in a DIY manner and even less likely to get an engineer to sign off on it. 

I doubt that is what you are wanting to do though.  If you are simply enclosing a timberframe structure then the panel is not load bearing and as such you should have no problem creating your own insulated sandwich panels. 

There have been a few posts about it on this site in the past and you might be able to dig them up out of the archives.  It is basically a mater of making a jig with a fair degree of precision, you mop or roll the back of the OSB panel with adhesive and place it in the jig, the foam slab is then placed on top of the glue and then the top OSP panel is mopped and applied over the foam.  A fair amount of weight is then applied to the assembly while it cures or a clamping system is applied.  (some of them have used pneumatic or hydraulic presses) When the glue has cured it is removed from the jig and the process.

This is in essence the same process used for commercial production  of EPS based SIPS's but with automated equipment and presses in a controlled environment as previously mentioned.  Urethane type panels such as those made by Murus are a little different animal.  I those cases the two peices of wood are inserted in a jig that holds them in precision alignment and then the foam is injected between them which expands and creates a great deal of pressure and bonds itself to the panels without using a separate adhesive.

Panels are usually made with an alignment tolerance of 1/4" or less.  This can be difficult to achieve in a garage or backyard DIY environment.

Jumbo SIP's are made out of continuous sheets of OSB.  Those used for my roof were 24' long by 8' wide and there were no seams in the OSB portion. Although they made a very tight roof they were very difficult to handle and were not very tolerant of framing errors. Everything has to be level square and plumb or it causes a lot of grief.

Seams between SIPS are typically made with splines and sealed with expanding foam or in some cases a specialty gasket.

I hope this answers your questions.


 

[frwinks]

I've looked into it a few years ago and followed a thread on GBT.  You have to sift through the BS to get some info, but it's a start.  
http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/afv/topic/aff/5/aft/30317/afpg/2/Default.aspx

For the joints, most use 2x material, gaskets and foam for the joints.  I think Jim has a sketch of the joint, look it up in his gallery.

[balsabones]

I am looking into making my own also. I am going to use EPS, (Expanded Polystyrene, specs below). In my case the distributor is within 100 miles of me and I dont have to incure the shipping cost. The cost of 10, 4" X 48" X 96" is  $66.35 per sheet and $663.52 for 10. My wife works for a contractor and the resident engineer is going to go over the specs of the obove stated EPS sandwiched between 2 peices of OSB I will probably get abetter price when ready to order.
As stated above though, since I am timber framing, there will be no load on the individual peices so I dont think it will matter much as to strength. I also thought about cutting or ordering the panels 38" wide and using a 10" X 96" peice to "join two together, if you picture what I mean.
http://univfoam.com/products/styrofoam/blocks-and-sheets
http://univfoam.com/pricing-calculators/eps-pricing

[Satamax]

Thanks a lot guys.

Thehardway, you replied pretty much to everything i asked.

So, it's a no DIY project. I had never thought that osb panels were available in thoses sizes. Expandable foam panels could be easier to make in a DIY way. My father played a bit with molds and making stuff out of polyurethane foam industrialy, and i've helped a bit.


In france, for manoverable panels, we have the sapisol, which is quite cool.

http://www.simonin.com/catalogue-produits/panneaux-isolants-sapisol/

[ljmathias]

Satamax- your stuff (available in France) looks pretty nice, much more finished looking then the SIPs over here.  Only problem with your link is that it was all in French...  ;D

Lj

[Satamax]

Well, i'm teribly sorry  ;D

I'm inside in the warmth, and looking outside at the perturbation you've sent us, and it's pouring down with snow.

Well, if you click at the little english flag on top, the site is in english too.  Mind you, it's not structural for walls. Thought in roves, it's nice stuff, but expensive!