iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Thick 'n thin, flipping, 2x and 1x lumber

Started by Aeneas61, February 17, 2016, 04:10:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Aeneas61

Hello all,
Im very new to saw milling, have an EZ boardwalk Junior sawmill and will be doing a good bit of sawing in the near future, am here searching for advice from those who unlike me know what they are doing!  ;D

I will soon be sawing up some Oak, tulip poplar, and pine for a neighbor who mostly wants 1x material for flooring and roofing as well as 2x8 or 2x6 for barn rafters and such construction.

I should say most of the logs will be anywhere from 10-30". Until now I only sawed a few tulip poplars for roof decking last summer, I just squared the logs into 12" cants taking a slab off all four sides, then sawed 1x down to the bed.

Ive read a few times on forums one should do things like flipping cants every few cuts, and say deciding a 12"can't into 1/3s before sawing 1x material to prevent cupping and the like.

I guess to simplify my questions,

1. What would be the best way to process a 12" log into 1x or 2x material?
2. What about a larger log? Would I do anything differently?
3. Is there a big difference sawing 1x or 2x? I know most flooring is not wide stuff because of movement, so I guess you would want to divide the cants up to say 4x12 size then rotate and saw 1x perhaps?

Thanks all for the advice!
josh


Magicman

Even logs of the same species can be different depending upon their growing conditions.  There are no set rules.  Watch the log as you remove boards.  If either end has a tendency to lift up off of the sawmill bed, then turn.  Of course sometimes when you release the log clamp, you immediately wish that you had not.  Logs and tension are cruel teachers.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

4x4American

You should take a thin slab and some boards and edge them later when you're opening a log.
Boy, back in my day..

WDH

Once you square your cant, saw down to the pith, then flip 180 degrees.  This helps relieve tension and puts the pith wood (worst wood) in the bottom board.  Sometimes, you cannot go down to the pith (halfway to the bed) because of tension, then you have to flip 180 degrees more often.  Tension shows up as thick and thin boards (generally thicker at the ends and thinner in the middle), and oft times it shows us you are sawing a board and the front end of the board wants to raise up off the cant as you move through the log.  It will also show up as side bend where the board tries to shift off to the side of the cant as you saw the board.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

DMcCoy

Like the other have said especially MM's tension comment.  I sawed some Western red cedar 2 days ago.  8' x 24" dia. log - cut a 3/4 outside slab and watched it lift 3" in the middle at the end of the cut.  The rest of the log was remarkably stable.  WRC tapers hard so I generally take a heavier first cut.  I try to take enough off so the next cut will yield at least a 6' board(on an 8' log).  Fancy grain like birds eye maple I might cut short boards but not lumber.

In general I take a tape measure to the small end of a log and see what I can get.  No matter what you do, as you whittle it down your going to end up with a mostly squared up block of wood.  Decide what you want it to look like and work backwards to your opening cut.  If I'm cutting siding I want one dimension of that remaining block to be 8" or on a big log 16 1/8" so I can cut 2-8"cants(24 1/4" gives 3).  The rest of what I cut working my way back to my opening cut depends on other sizes I could use and if I can get them. the limiting factors being taper and knots.  In general I don't make too many cuts with the log sitting on the round bottom, 1 or 2 at the most.  I feel better with the log sitting on the flat side. 
Tension can wreck the best laid plans. I also had some siding boards that moved 3/8" the hard way while I was cutting. 
Flipping will help, as MM said watch the log.
Agh posting while typing  :) and WDH all good advice-

DMcCoy

You will see comments about the pith or pith boards.  Unless your log is clear(knot free)the pith board has spike knots. big spike knots make that board pretty much useless. Pith boards dry weird as the grain shrinks differently too, looking more like a hamburger bun instead of square.  If your log has lots of tension that will make the bottom board to uneven to use it might as well contain the worst knots and the worst drying characteristics.

GAB

Quote from: Aeneas61 on February 17, 2016, 04:10:32 PM

I should say most of the logs will be anywhere from 10-30". Until now I only sawed a few tulip poplars for roof decking last summer, I just squared the logs into 12" cants taking a slab off all four sides, then sawed 1x down to the bed.


Sawing in the above described manner, which I refer to as removing the jacket boards with the slabs, depending on the size of the logs and how much wane, if any, are on the boards will result in roughly 30% +/- 15% of the lumber available in a log winding up in the slab pile.  The percentage is very dependent upon the capability and experience of the individual at the controls and the scale used to calculate the yield.
So if you are purchasing logs your costs per board foot of lumber will be some higher.  However you can saw more logs in a day.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Sixacresand

To get  straight 2 x 6 x 16' pine (with tension causing some curve boards),  I tried sawing down from a 8 inch cant, with a centered pith,  flipping often, and then edging the humps and horns out of the 2 x 8's to make 2 x 6's.  Extra work and waste.  But a bent board is waste also.  And after edging  a few perfectly straight 2 x 8's, some of the 2 x 6's curved.  Win some, lose some.  For my personal projects (with no time constraints and planning), I cut wider than needed and re edge after drying a while.   
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

OlJarhead

Quote from: Sixacresand on February 19, 2016, 06:23:15 AM
For my personal projects (with no time constraints and planning), I cut wider than needed and re edge after drying a while.

I do this often too.  If I have no specific need for what I'm milling I mill wide as I can and dry them.  I've milled 2x12's because I knew someday I'd need some 2x's for one project or another but had nothing specific in mind at the time (yes that's possible), then later ripped them down to 2x6's to great effect.

I think I'm spoiled though (I know I'm jinxing myself by saying this) but I've had very good luck with Ponderosa and Doug Fir with little movement and have milled many a log straight down once the cant was completed.
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

Magicman

Side lumber off of a log with sweep will generally have a tendency to crook.  It should because it grew that way.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

samandothers

Great info here.  I have sawed SYP and Polar the most.  As I read WDH's and Magicman's first post those rang true for me.  The SYP grew tall and straight 36" DBH and sawed great. Don't remember much tension, boards raising, bowing etc.  This was the first sawing I did and I thought this sawing stuff is going to be easy!
Then I tried sawing some tulip polar that grew on the side of a hill in the edge of a forest and an opening.   Boy did I get schooled!!  I had more waste and saw many a board like Danny described with thick ends or thick centers.  I came back frustrated.  Read some more.  My failure was I did not pay enough attention to the board and log movement and failed to flip soon enough.   Even when I did  a better job at this I still had some issues.  To Magicman's point Logs and tension or cruel teachers.

OlJarhead

Worst one I had was a bent Ponderosa.  Only the bottom 12 feet were bent and that in the first 6.  I should have cut that off but was stubborn and tried to flip the cant a lot (by hand of course) to no avail...I could make a boat with those!  aahhhh well, kindling it is and I moved on.

But learned something:  milling bent pine is a waste of my time!
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

4x4American

I sawed some locust and popple today that was doing the cherokee boogie as I sawed..the locust was twisting while I sawed making for a heck of a dance..lots of flipping and trim cutting.
Boy, back in my day..

Thank You Sponsors!