I'll be putting down some ~7/16" flooring in my house this winter (my wood). Figured it was too thin to find appropriate shaper cutters but this weekend I was refinishing hardwood floors in my mothers house and I noticed they were only 3/8" thick but were tongue and groove. I did a little snooping online but nearly all the bits I found were for 5/8-3/4" boards with a couple stating they could be used for 1/2" to 1" thick boards.
I'm a total newbie when it comes to shapers. Any thoughts on this? Is using a cutter rated for 1/2" minimum thickness boards already going to be too marginal for 7/16" boards?
While it would be nice to hide my nails I wouldn't mind face nailing them. I mostly want the T&G to lock the edges together. In the bedrooms I just butted the edges which worked pretty well except that the pieces wouldn't always remain flush between the joists and would require an extra nail or two to keep everything tight to the floor.
Alan
I used the following
1/2" Shank Tongue & Groove For 3/8" to 5/8" Stock
Brand: infinity Tools (https://www.amazon.com/infinity-Tools/b/ref=bl_dp_s_web_7521319011?ie=UTF8&node=7521319011&field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=infinity+Tools)
When I needed to T & G some aromatic cedar that was only 3/8" thick. worked out real good, but boy is the tongue thin and easy to chip off, but then again that was 3/8" not 7/16" and it still worked on the thinner material just fine
I just ran what I needed on the router table, but with a router insert for the shaper, don't see why this wouldn't perform as well or better, especially for a one off project or two and not any heavy production use.
Thanks, Mike. I found the cutters you used. They look nice but I'd like to use the shaper since I just got a powerfeeder for it and I like that the dedicated flooring cutters have a gap for the nail and also make angled cuts above the tongue and leave a small gap below the tongue so the exposed portion of the joint fits tight.
I found a set from Woodline (SC453) that I think will work just fine. The literature says for 5/8-3/4" boards but I can't see why I can't use it on mine, which I decided to leave at 9/16" rather than 7/16". These Woodline cutters cut a 1/8" tongue/groove as opposed to most of the others which were 1/4".
https://www.woodline.com/products/flooring-tongue-groove
I'll see in a couple weeks how it works.
Alan
Quote from: alan gage on January 08, 2021, 03:29:28 PM
Thanks, Mike. I found the cutters you used. They look nice but I'd like to use the shaper since I just got a powerfeeder for it and I like that the dedicated flooring cutters have a gap for the nail and also make angled cuts above the tongue and leave a small gap below the tongue so the exposed portion of the joint fits tight.
I found a set from Woodline (SC453) that I think will work just fine. The literature says for 5/8-3/4" boards but I can't see why I can't use it on mine, which I decided to leave at 9/16" rather than 7/16". These Woodline cutters cut a 1/8" tongue/groove as opposed to most of the others which were 1/4".
https://www.woodline.com/products/flooring-tongue-groove
I'll see in a couple weeks how it works.
Alan
It turns out the online specs for this cutter were incorrect, it does have a 1/4" diameter tongue instead of the 1/8" I'd wanted. Oh well, I think it will work ok.
I let them know and they've since changed the website description.
Alan
What a bummer, but if you think you can make it work for you, hopefully they did something for you on the misrepresentation after all you purchased for a specific task.
Keep us posted on how it goes, sure you'll make it work just fine for you, will be just a tad thin, so won't be rough housing these around once processed.
The cutters I used and mentioned were really a one off (think I've used them twice now) for that specific thin cedar I was using, I too love the shaper and power feed, which I did use with these bits, just used the 1/2" router collet to make it work.
Look forward to your finished product
Quote from: Mike W on January 22, 2021, 11:01:58 AM
What a bummer, but if you think you can make it work for you, hopefully they did something for you on the misrepresentation after all you purchased for a specific task.
Keep us posted on how it goes, sure you'll make it work just fine for you, will be just a tad thin, so won't be rough housing these around once processed.
The cutters I used and mentioned were really a one off (think I've used them twice now) for that specific thin cedar I was using, I too love the shaper and power feed, which I did use with these bits, just used the 1/2" router collet to make it work.
Look forward to your finished product
Yes, was thinking they might be a bit delicate so I'll just be extra dainty with moving and installing them.
I did do some more looking around and found what looks like a nice router bit specifically designed for thinner flooring that would work nice (Amana 55454): 55454 2-Piece Carbide Tipped Flooring 1-1/4 Dia x 3/4 x 1/2 Inch Shank Set with Nail Slot for 1/2 - 5/8 Material (https://www.amanatool.com/55454-2-piece-carbide-tipped-flooring-1-1-4-dia-x-3-4-x-1-2-inch-shank-set-with-nail-slot-for-1-2-5-8-material.html)
I'm tempted to get a 1/2" router bit adapter for my shaper but I'll do some test cuts with the cutters I have first. Hopefully they will work fine.
When I sent Woodline a note I told them I wasn't really upset and didn't plan on returning them but just wanted to bring it to their attention. They sent me back a 10% coupon for my next order. I'm happy enough with that as I wasn't expecting anything. I'm sure they would have been fine with me returning them too.
I'll post pics of the floor as I go along. I'm sure it will be worth it in the end but so far I'll say processing my own hardwood floors has not been the most fun I've ever had in my life. Finished straight lining everything on the jointer last night. Next step will be cutting to final width on the table saw and then the shaper. Would be tickled pink to have it done by the end of the weekend but I've got other stuff going on too so probably not.
Thanks,
Alan
Got everything tongue and grooved over the weekend. Sure was nice having a power feed for the tablesaw and shaper. Was very happy with now cleanly the shaper cutters cut. There were a lot of knots and odd grain along the edges of the board and many fewer blowouts than I anticipated. Ended up with 3/16" above the tongue and 1/8" below.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46602/tongue_and_groove.jpg)
Alan
Looks beefier than some of the commercially sold stuff out there. Should work fine. What fasteners will you use?
(Flooring installation is one of my moneymaking jobs)
Garniga makes a shaper cutter set that you can change the geometry on. Do you still need this info? Looks like your done !
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/cutter_heads_1_25_2021.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1611612085)
Looks great Alan! As I am just taking my first stab at a section of flooring in eh shop loft. Just a 4/4 pine with ship lap edges. The 5/4 hardwood shrunk and I have a lot of 'stuff' falling between the cracks. So this is just a test to try something new. The lumber I milled is not good quality stuff. I am wondering how many linear feet you had to run through in total. That power feed sure looks handy to me right about now. ;D
I have to run 800 feet, which isn't much, but still should take some time.
Edit: I will move this question to the thread related to the jointer and your power feed.
Alan how does your power feed mount to your shaper? Did you drill holes in the table and bolt it or clamp? I have a a power feed that was on a router table. I was thinking about how could I set it up on other pieces of equipment.
Quote from: Will.K on January 25, 2021, 04:34:46 PM
Looks beefier than some of the commercially sold stuff out there. Should work fine. What fasteners will you use?
(Flooring installation is one of my moneymaking jobs)
I think I'm going to use cleats but am happy to hear any opinions since I know nothing about it but have been studying it the last couple few days. I'm a little worried about splitting the thin boards, especially due to a fair number of 'almost' knots and whirly grain along the edges.
The local hardware store rents a Porta Nailer 465 SLT that shoots 16 gauge cleats. I see it's supposed to be supplied with an extra base plate for 1/2" flooring but I need to check and make sure they have that. Otherwise I'm thinking it looks like the ticket.
My 15 gauge finish nailer has a tip for angling into the tongue but I'm thinking that would be a poor choice.
I'm also not opposed to face nailing and will likely go that route if boards start splitting too often on install.
Alan
Quote from: tule peak timber on January 25, 2021, 04:48:48 PM
Garniga makes a shaper cutter set that you can change the geometry on. Do you still need this info? Looks like your done !
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/cutter_heads_1_25_2021.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1611612085)
I don't need the information any longer for this project but I'm always happy to learn new things that may apply down the road. I'm glad to know this options exists!
Alan
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on January 25, 2021, 05:03:15 PMI am wondering how many linear feet you had to run through in total. That power feed sure looks handy to me right about now. ;D
I have to run 800 feet, which isn't much, but still should take some time.
1000 linear feet is probably about where I'm at. I've got somewhere around 450sq ft with an average width of 4-5"
I really enjoyed using the powerfeed on both the table saw and the shaper. Much easier, faster, consistent, and cleaner cuts. I ran 40-45fpm on the table saw and 30fpm on the shaper (3hp). Probably could have pushed the shaper faster but I was getting good cuts overall and worried I'd get more blowouts at higher feeds due to knots and wonky grain.
Alan
Alan, You might want to consider adding a micro bevel on each board as it has several benefits down the road at installation. Cheers
I checked the local rental and they don't have the 1/2" plate. Maybe the 3/4" would work but I hate to pay for a rental only to find out it doesn't.
So I went shopping and found out there is nowhere within 100 miles of here to buy one so I went poking around on line and have a Bostitch 2 in 1 nailer (BTFP12569) coming my way via Amazon for $225. Will be here Thursday so I can install this weekend.
Good reviews. Some issues with feeding. Should be good enough for me. Looks like Dewalt has an identical unit for the same price.
It will be nice not having to rent one as I might only get an hour or two here and there so the install could stretch over a few days. And it gives me an excuse to make more flooring!
Alan
That nailer will work just fine. Cleats are better than 15.5 gague staples if you're worried about splitting. I often use a 1/4" crown 1 1/4" long staple for thin stuff. If the plate is the wrong thickness and your fastener isn't seating in the crotch you can always put a shim under the existing plate.
Floor is down. Went well and has since been sanded with the drum sander. Will do edges this afternoon and start putting down the finish. Very happy with it so far and can't wait to see it finished.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46602/20210202_180530.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1612462065)
Alan
That came out beautiful. Great job 8)
Fantastic job on the milling and the install.
What is your subfloor?
Quote from: samandothers on February 06, 2021, 11:13:34 AM
Fantastic job on the milling and the install.
What is your subfloor?
Half inch ply under half inch particle board. Not what I would have chosen but decided to go with what was already there.
Alan
I put the final coat down Saturday morning and could not be happier with how it turned out. Three coats of water poly over two coats of shellac seal coat.
I was worried about running out of material but had enough that I could pick and choose my pieces, which let me use mainly quarter sawn, which is my personal preference. It's a mix of mainly ash and white (bur) oak with a little red oak, elm, and hackberry thrown in.
As usual pictures don't quite do it justice. The actual color is a little warmer than shown in the pictures under artificial light. The sunshine pics are pretty accurate but the floor doesn't show near the same color under diffuse light.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46602/20210205_093918.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1612721396)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46602/20210206_150116.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1612721432)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46602/20210206_145401.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1612721488)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46602/20210206_145249.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1612721518)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46602/20210205_142044.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1612721607)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46602/20210206_150740.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1612721638)
Alan
Very nice! You did a great job!
Nice book matching!