out of business, back to work!

[Indiana Robinson]

Man I have some tatle-tale pain in the you know where neighbors also.  I have tried hard to make friends, I don't think that they would know what to do with friends if they found anybody to tolerate them long enough to be a friend.  I did the next best thing, made friends with the sheriff.  My neighbor will make up things to call the sheriff about me.  They sheriff will call me, we will have a laugh about it, and it's all good.

You should be able to sit down with a lawyer and at least get a free consultation.  Good luck, I feel for ya man.

Yes, there will be those that you just can't deal with no matter how hard you try. Not the majority but too many of them.  :(
I had a guy next to our mini-farm in the next county that I had tried to befriend but no matter what I tried he was mostly interested in trying to take over my property. He was warned several times over the years and mouthed off to our renter there that he knew that he was not supposed to be doing what he was doing but that he was going to keep doing it until "they" made him stop. My problem was catching him at it then this year we got lucky. We had been working with the chief deputy for a while and when we had a tight charge lined up with witnesses "they" went in and instead of serving him the papers we expected "they" called him out of his house, cuffed him in front of all of his neighbors and shoved him in the back of the patrol car. 
He plead not guilty but later made a plea deal. It has been "VERY" quiet there for a while now.  ;D ;D ;D ;D


.

[moandrich]

I remember someone telling me if you do something without a permit and use it for 3 years they can't tell you to take it down.  I have also seen cases in this area where they have been collecting taxes for a number of years then try to tell you "you can't do that" but it doesn't work.  We have a lot of city folk that have moved out our way, I frankly don't like the changes they are always trying to make.  Why did you move out here if you don't like it?  They want to govern there neighbors land and change everything in the school system for there kid.  Don't give up!

[Mooseherder]

Man I hope you can talk some sense into whoever is the over seer.
It is a real shame to hear about this. 

[SwampDonkey]

I can't imagine a portable saw mill being that terrible next door. It's not like your running it 24/7 on shift work. Maybe they should live next door to a stud mill running around the clock to get tuned into reality. ;D

[Jeff]

The shame if it is, a portable sawmill isn't any more annoying to listen to than a leaf blower or a weed whacker.

[scsmith42]

As I understand the situation, the problem with the county is not that you are running a sawmill, the problem is that you are operating a business in a location that is not zoned for it.

If I were you, I would make a trade with another local miller, to have him to come in an mill your logs for you.  In exchange, take your mill to his site (or customers site) and mill their logs.

Let the county know that you have ceased operation of your on-premise business, but will hire a local sawyer to come in an saw up some of your timber for on-farm use.  You will be able to show them the receipt from the other sawyer, which proves that you did not do the work.

There are not any restrictions that I'm aware of in Durham County to prevent you from doing this.

Another option is to contact your local county commissioner to see if they can assist you with finding a solution.

[rockman]

Ricky, I'm no expert but that sounds like a load of B.S. to me. If it was me, I would consult an attorney, I know of a couple sawmills around your area(one on Red Mtn. rd.), what about someone with a woodshop at thier home who sells what they make? I think once you educate yourself about how thier zoning works, and start pushing back, thier attitude might change. Send an email to your state representitive(election year) get ahold of anyone who will listen, keep us posted, I for one am very interested in this.

Kevin

[mikeb1079]

many good ideas here but ill throw one more in:  before you do anything drastic like selling your mill what about converting your motor to electric and building an indoor shed.  then, how would they even know your milling?

[Robert Duval]

Sorry to hear about this Xlogger. We went through something simmilar when we started our business this summer. We have one neighbor that fought us every step of the way. We had to have the planning board come out to our property and actualy see what we are doing. One thing that plays a big part is the size of the mill in question, ours is labeled as a hobby mill so that helped us huge. This is when you have to take a deep breath and slow down because as much as they don't seem like they are on your side the town is not your enemy. Take some time and talk to all your other neighbors that are ok with what you are doing. Ask them to call or send a letter to the town on your behalf this will be a big positive in your favor. The one thing I remember the town telling me was one neighbor can't stop you and that rang true in our case. It is a major pain to have to do this but when you get the ruling from the town that you are good to go believe me it will all be worth it.

[archangel_cpj]

i was a zoning inspector for ten yrs in an ohio twp. In ohio all base zoning is ag then u can add res or com to that it doesnt matter if ur in a 1acre lot or 1000. Now as long as 51 percent of the building or mill is ag the whole op is. Also it would then fall to the govt to prove u are not ag. Id get an attorney and challenge it. Whiny neighbors used to irk me we had a regular fued on one rd i was gettin 3 or more frivilouse calls a day from these 2 folks it got to thdd point the fire dept got a burning complaint if one of em lit the grill. Well id had it so i went down the rd and issued 30 or so violations to every address on the rd and in the letter thanked the 2 guys by name and address for showing me how bad the rd was. Mailed them out and 2 days later they were at my office begging me to get rid of the violations and promising theyd play nice. Never had a complaint on that rd again. Always wondered what the other addresses said to them

[customdave]

When I started reading this my first two thoughts were- check wind direction
                                                                               - FIRE !  ;)
   just thinkin ?  Keep your chin up every dog has its day....



          Dave

[xlogger]

Well I was thinking like Jack said if this thing goes bad for me. I've not had a Harley for 25 years now but have been thinking about it again. On the hogs that was the only thing they told me when we where planning on buying the property that we could not have. This guy will not reason, I'm old school and when this is all over I'm planning on being the biggest pain in the *** that he ever meet. He will want to move back into his gated community that he came from.
But for now I'm going to make some phone calls and see what I can do. thanks all for the suggestions. Ricky

[kelLOGg]

Ricky, Sorry this happened but selling the mill is premature, IMO. You've gotten some creative replies which are hopeful. Wish I knew someone to refer you to but I am actually in another county (Chatham) - I only have a Durham address.
Bob

[WDH]

I would make the case that timber is a crop, just like corn or vegetables.  You have a right to grow it.  You should have a right to harvest it, just like corn.  You also sell farm products like corn, just like you sell rough lumber.  Since it is rough lumber produced at your property, make the case that this rough lumber is a farm commodity and falls within the purview of a legitimate farming practice.  The farm angle is the way to go, because timber is a crop.

[Norm]

WDH is right in his thinking, I'm covered under my ag zoning.

[thecfarm]

Just like was said I would get the board members out to your place. Have the sound demicals done if needed. Yes it will cost some,but may need it to prove it's not louder than a chainsaw,lawn mower.

[Jim_Rogers]

About the noise issue. We have an ordinance in our town that says no noise can leave the property line from within.

During several town hall meeting I went to for another company in town, his specialist said that can't be enforced without a decibel level written into the law itself.

For example if you walk outside with a meter you're going to get a reading somewhere around 40 t0 45 decibels automatically. That's the natural sound level.

If your machine make a higher level then what the law says then they can fine you. But if there is no level written in the law they will lose in court.

I feel your pain, and I hope you find a solution.

Jim Rogers

PS I'm lucky, my mill is on industrial zoned land and sawmilling is allowed. Plus it's portable.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I wasn't going to jump in on this because I'm on vacation in SABASTIAN, FLORIDA right now. But I can't just stand by and read this.

I just experienced a problem VERY similar to your's XLOGGER. I am in the process of researching DURHAM COUNTY regulations where you live.

Just because you got a warning by letter, phone call, in person, etc., do not abandone ship. Reguest a copy of Bahama and/ or Durham County regulations. Read it and see if your set up fits anything in the rules.

You may me too close to a property line, etc. (This is just an example).  But my suggestion is get the rules and read the rules. I don't think they can stop you from building a barn or house with a sawmill. There is NO difference in a sawmill and a Skill saw. They both are used to saw 2x4s. 

I'm thinking there is a solution. Meet with someone from Durham County. Invite them to your place and show them what you are doing. But before the meeting......know the rules or at least have a copy of them in your hand. Some of these people just like to show their authority and don't really know the rules themselves.

In the mean time I am gonna keep researching your county rules and see what I can find.

I gotta do some thing on vacation.  :D

[Magicman]

The main elected official that you need in your corner is the one from your district/ward/etc.  The one that you vote for.

[Indiana Robinson]

I just wanted to add... The DNR / state forestry service etc. may very well be your friend. I would bet that they are acquainted with this problem from other locations. Your local conservation officer may be a good source of who to contact.
Good luck.


.

[Cypressstump]

Sorry to hear of your issues Bud !  These guys have given great advice, hopefully you can find an outlet in which to keep your mill running and the nosey neighbor in check. Someone mentioned hogs,,, funny but in most rural locations hogs are allowed whereas other livestock isn't. Beings your mill is a portable mill, versus a commercial type large scale business, that may be something to have them consider.

He's my neighbor story I had posted elsewhere a while back, long read, but sometimes problem neighbors can be made to work with ya.


I lived in New Mexico for a spell. Nice place .One of the places I lived at in Abq. New Mexico, Was 5 acre tract that was long and narrow. In the back I had a hay barn and horse stalls. Plenty chickens, ducks, etc...on an old apple/cherry orchard. My house was up front on the property, and my adjacent neighbor's home was 1000 feet back in the rear of the property with his house approx. 20 feet off the fence line. Up near the middle of the place ,I had simply rebuilt an pre-existing small outbuilding, got it back up to usable standards. The adjoining neighbor raised cane about me 'building' the outbuilding, of which my reply was it was already there and I merely fixed it back up .Neighbor said I was too close to the existing property line. And he did not have a thing nearby on his property,, just being a pain in the butt, because my property used to be his grandparents, and it got bought by an 'outsider'... their payback was to be mean I guess...His grandfather had built the durn thing in the first place. anyway, he got the building inspector out, code enforcement out, tried to cause trouble due to my horses and animals.... this was still a rural area, and farm animals were allowed per local codes. I was always in compliance.. This went on for 3 months about the outbuilding. Old grumpy neighbor had just caused another scene one day, when one of my buddy's pulled up in his truck with about 40 head of hog in the gooseneck, just coming back from auction. His truck was puking oil from a busted gasket. He needed to leave the hogs at my place for a while,,, no issue,, my place was well fenced and plenty place to free range the hogs. So we turned them loose in the back and let em' enjoy.. My grumpy neighbor came outside when I was back at the pole barn getting some hay. He came to the fence and shockingly politely asked about the hogs .I told him the truth in saying that they had just been delivered... ! As expected I touched another nerve, he went off like a gun,,,next day back came the code enforcement about livestock... again, I was in compliance since hogs were allowed... The code guy had sorta sided with me, saying this guy was always complaining about somebody somewhere all the time... Later,,I thought very short and not too hard,,over a cold cervasa,,,, grabbed up a few survey stakes I had,,, tied me some red flaggen to them, me, beer, hammer and stakes walked back to the back property right across the fence from his house,, with them outside. I took tape measure, and laid out 20 feet from the fence, using the side of his house as an alignment, I drove the first stake into the ground. I then left and went into the pole barn,, sure enough, the whole group came out and was looking over the fence at that stake. I got busy doing other stuff,, and 2-3 hours later,,, I walked back there,,, using the other end of his house this time, I drove another stake in the ground, again 20 feet from the fence, and approx. 60 feet down the line from the 1st stake in the ground... and went back up to the front and watched once more. Just like bats after dark,,, here come the neighbors to the fence again. Late that afternoon I went back and drove the two last stakes, taking my time and seeing them peek outta the curtains watching me.. I ended up with 4 stakes in a 60 x 60 area. I then laid in wait. Took every bit of till the next day, and my neighbor kindly called out to me when I got close enough to see/hear him. I walked on over, said howya doing, etc... all was very pleasant. He asked of the stakes, as to what I was fixin' to build now.... I say thinking about build a holding pen for all them hogs running around .Was thinking possibly about raising some hogs back here... He bought fainted..turned red as a fire plug, but surprisingly kept his cool. He asked why there, why not somewhere else on my land... I then told him that ever since I had moved there, he and his family had been rude to me, tried to cause problems with code enforcements, abusive to my animals and just plain disrespectful to me all the way around. Because of that I could care less of what they thought or felt in my decisions as to how and what I would do with my land. The guy practically begged me to move my 'Hog Pen' (stakes) to the other side of my property or further down by someone else's house... My reply was why would you want me to treat the other neighbors bad, the ones that like me and are willing to get along with me, and share in helping each other out ? ? He was basically caught in the middle and had little to nothing to reply back,,, as He realized he was now wishing ill things towards his long time neighbors...and they would probably hear about it too... dang the luck ! I left the stakes up another day or so. Then went back and pulled them up. The guy and his wife came out to see what was going on again. We talked a bit, nicely,,, I then said I had second thoughts, and was not going to raise hogs, matter of fact was going to have them hogs picked up in a day or so. It was nearly a year of me living there, all the time dealing with a sour neighbor, them plotting against me on almost everything I did to the property. And in 4 days, it was over. Hatchet was buried, fences were 'mended', skies turned blue....Hogs and a leaky broke down old ford truck cured an over the fence relationship that otherwise may have never been given the chance. And believe it or not, we later became fairly close, We helped each other out with field chores and such. Later that same year I took one of his nephew's Mule Deer hunting with me and got him on a 32" wide 5x6 buck,,, bigger than I had,,, ratz...He later found out over a couple beers that I had played him like a fiddle,, a well worn fiddle at that. He challenged my truthfulness with him during the squabble,,, of which I explained to him that I never lied to him, only he believed what he let himself believe, but I did say the stakes in the ground was a dirty trick, of which he happily agreed with me on. He thought it was funny as all git out, my way of persuading him to become a better neighbor.

[barbender]

Great story, Cypresstump ;)

[barbender]

Xlogger, wouldn't it take care of the problem if you simply quit selling lumber and only used the mill for.personal use?

[Dave_]

This story is not just an assault on freedom but an assault on jobs!  In this economy, it's nuts to shut down anybody who is trying to make some coin. 

We had a similar problem just recently.  We wanted to open an antique/gift store.  We live on a piece of property that is zoned Rural Commercial.  I checked with Planning and the zoning specs included exactly what we had in mind.  Great news!  Next, the planner said, "Now you need to talk to the building dept."  I asked why and was told that there had been some new code changes.  We are planning to use an old shop building but the new code changes would require me to bring my old building up to current commercial code including complete ADA bathroom, wiring, structural, etc. etc.

Our original plans have obviously been altered.  We now do Garage sale type Antique sales in the building.  Our first sale went great. 

Moral of the story...don't throw in the towel yet.  Work every angle you can to keep your dream alive.  Don't let them win.  Fight for your freedom!!!

[Ga Mtn Man]

Ricky,

I can't add anything in the way of advise but wanted to add my support to your situation.  Hang in there and don't let 'em beat you.