My processor build

[stevea303]

Went from Electronics field to excavation. Spent many years operating the big stuff until the disks in my lower back had enough. 2 surgeries later im doin good. 
All fab and welding has been self taught in my garage with my own equipment.
Hydraulics question...
I have the prince auto cycle 2 valve with power beyond hooked to another 3 valve assembly. Coming out of the auto cycle do I just come out of the PB to the next valve or do I need to tie the low pressure "out flow" if you will to the tank also?

[wiam]

Instructions that came with my prince autocycle said that port has to return to tank.

[stevea303]

Thanks Wiam, that's how I plumbed it but wanted to double check.

[mitchstockdale]

what do you figure will be the savings between this build and a pre-packaged one?

I can see huge future savings in repair cost, since this thing looks like it will survive a nuclear blast  :D

[stevea303]

Finally have everything plumbed and cutting wood. I put together my own "one lever function" that will drop the log clamp, provide fluid to the saw feed cylinder and then the saw motor. Question is what could I put in the saw feed cylinder that would allow it the feed only to a certain pressure. In other words it would feed quickly until it hits a certain amount of pressure or resistance and then slow down as to not stall the chain. I don't know if a simple relief valve set to say 50-100 psi would suffice or not? looking for ideas or recommendations.

[Ljohnsaw]

Would it work to have a Tee fitting, one side going to the saw tilt and the other to the motor?  Add a flow restriction such that the arm is going down but enough pressure is going to the saw motor so it is spinning.  Then, when the bar hits resistance (back pressure) the remaining flow goes to the motor.  Increase in pressure will only go to the motor since the arm can't more until it cuts.

[doc henderson]

i would be surprised if that issue has not been addressed by the engineers that designed you saw unit.  The saw advance is prob. a cylinder and therefore low flow.  i wonder if there is a pressure relief adj. to bypass the arm that applies pressure to the bar.  lets see some wood splittin pics!!!

[blackfoot griz]

Finally have everything plumbed and cutting wood. I put together my own "one lever function" that will drop the log clamp, provide fluid to the saw feed cylinder and then the saw motor. Question is what could I put in the saw feed cylinder that would allow it the feed only to a certain pressure. In other words it would feed quickly until it hits a certain amount of pressure or resistance and then slow down as to not stall the chain. I don't know if a simple relief valve set to say 50-100 psi would suffice or not? looking for ideas or recommendations.

I did a one lever function as well for the clamp, saw motor and saw cylinder. Initially, the problem was that the saw cylinder was too fast. My solution was to install a flow control  for the saw cylinder right next to the the said lever. Worked like a dream because if you restricted the flow it would allow the amount of the restriction to go to the saw motor.



This is the only photo I could find. The Flow control was not in the pic. It ended up just to the left of the left black lever. The two levers on the far left are the Prince autocycle controls.

[barbender]

Steve, what was the cost for the Danzco saw?

[stevea303]

Barbender,
I bought the simple saw version at around $2100. 

Doc,
The unit i bought was designed to be a "hand fed" unit, i adapted it to feed with a cylinder.

Blackfoot griz, 
Gotta tell ya, your build is was sparked my build, my wife thanks you. 🤣🤣
Anyway I called the co that built your manifold snd was quoted $850 + shipping so i decided to build my own.
What ive decided to try is a "Grove Reducing & Relief Small Volume Regulator"

 
Spec's are...
- Max inlet: 3000
- Range out: 5/60 psi
- Serial: L25728
- 1/4" NPT ports in & out
Im thinking 60 psi is enough feed press, what you guys think?

[doc henderson]

the feed pressure range  may be enough, but depends on the physics of your design.  what is the torque arm the cylinder is pushing against.  these factors can reduce or multiply the force.  If you are mocked up, you may be able to push manually with a scale in place to measure the force needed to get an estimate.  If the valve is variable, that would be great so you can fine tune it for other softer species if you want, or at least find a sweet spot that does it all.
A lot of engineering.  you have to look at the degrees of rotation your need from you saw, and the linear length of the cylinder rod, and determine the length of the arm it pushes against.  the force will change as it rotates as well.  you can figure the max. length of the torque arm by drawing to scale on graph paper.  plot the angle with 2 lines and to scale look for the distance out that the length between the lines is equal to the push rod extension length.  or use trig, or calculus. :P.  It will have the least force at the extremes of the arc since the force on the torque are is relative to the distance perpendicular to the force.  I would say you want the most force when the bar is in the center of the log.

[hedgerow]

Steve I use a 9-7960-4 flow control valve and a 9-6135-50-L relief valve both from Surplus Center Lincoln Ne to control the cylinder on my homemade hyd chain saw on my firewood processor. I didn't get fancy and set up a one lever set up. I use a three spool valve one is for my adjustable wedge the other runs the log clamp and the third runs the saw drop cylinder and the flow control is mounted right on the valve so it can be adjusted if needed. I used a bent axis piston motor for my saw motor so it seems after I got the flow control and relief set for the speed of the cut I don't have to adjust the speed the saw has plenty of power if when the chain gets a little dull. 

[stevea303]

Hedgerow, 
I have that same 1/4" needle valve inline just before my cylinder so i can easily adjust feed rate also, however i have a small 1" cylinder with 1/2" rod/6" stroke for the saw feed. My adjustment is veryyyyy sensitive. 
I actually used a sequence valve into a priority valve that splits 2 gal to feed cyl and 21-22 to saw motor. The adjustment on the priority valve is the one that is extremely sensitive. Im talkin 1/20th of a turn and it goes from barely moving to trying to chop the log like its an axe. 

[stevea303]

Doc,
Saw is mounted and running, feed angles seem fine snd cylinder has no prob feeding thru the cut. I just need to somehow slow down the hydraulic feed pressure so chsin doesnt bind in the bigger stuff. I have a decent video but I cant post it, i guess its to big of a file.

[doc henderson]

did not mean to over do my response.  was trying to address how to check the pressure needed for good push through the log.  and some factors that may come into play at lower pressures.  I too have not mastered getting video on despite several folks trying to help.  i know you have to create a you tube account and link to it.  it is in tech forum.  good luck.

[doc henderson]

the 2 gallons going to the feed cylinder, is there a subsequent pressure relief after that, but before the cylinder.  the internal volume of your cylinder is 4.71 cubic inches.  or 0.02 gallons, so with no back pressure from a log, it would really fly.  may need a second flow valve (like the infinite variable speed one I have for the carriage movement on my sawmill), then a pressure relief for when the saw is in the log.  just throwing out some ideas.

[blackfoot griz]

Barbender,
I bought the simple saw version at around $2100.

Doc,
The unit i bought was designed to be a "hand fed" unit, i adapted it to feed with a cylinder.

Blackfoot griz,
Gotta tell ya, your build is was sparked my build, my wife thanks you. 🤣🤣
Anyway I called the co that built your manifold snd was quoted $850 + shipping so i decided to build my own.
What ive decided to try is a "Grove Reducing & Relief Small Volume Regulator"


Spec's are...
- Max inlet: 3000
- Range out: 5/60 psi
- Serial: L25728
- 1/4" NPT ports in & out
Im thinking 60 psi is enough feed press, what you guys think?

If my build had any influence on you building yours...I will be a heckuva lot happier when yours is cranking out the firewood! I don't know her, but, I don't your wife to be mad at me!
I would think 60 psi would work. But, if your challenge is being able to control the speed of the cut/saw cylinder,   I see this as a function of flow. With your one control function, if you are cutting small diameter stuff, the saw cylinder can go fast and it will need to slow down on larger diameter stuff. Not fully understanding your set up using pressure versus flow, would you be able to adjust the pressure?  Just wondering if being able to increase the pressure would equate to speed on the cut?

[doc henderson]

blackfoot, I think with no back pressure the limit is the flow.  once the bar is against the log, and rotation of the bar is limited, a pressure relief will keep the bar from pushing too hard. then the flow does not matter cause it only needs to fill the tiny space in the cylinder as the bar moves forward. you almost need less bar pressure in the center of the log.  Often with a sharp chain, as you all know, just the weight of the saw is enough.  At a flow of 2 gpm in a 1 inch cylinder, the forward movement of the rod is 50 feet per minute. or 10 inches per second.

[doc henderson]

steve, can you post a close up pic of your bar and cylinder set up?  I know you won't want your bar and chain to slam into the log.  I assume your cylinder is pushing and not pulling to actuate the bar movement.  I have seen it done both ways.  volume of oil on the back stroke is 3.5 cubic inches, or 0.015 gallons, and a rod speed of 66 feet per minute or 13 inches per second no load.  I think after the priority splitter you need a fine variable flow regulator to slow movement of the bar outside the wood, and then a pressure relief to keep the bar from stalling in the log.

[blackfoot griz]

Hedgerow,
I have that same 1/4" needle valve inline just before my cylinder so i can easily adjust feed rate also, however i have a small 1" cylinder with 1/2" rod/6" stroke for the saw feed. My adjustment is veryyyyy sensitive.
I actually used a sequence valve into a priority valve that splits 2 gal to feed cyl and 21-22 to saw motor. The adjustment on the priority valve is the one that is extremely sensitive. Im talkin 1/20th of a turn and it goes from barely moving to trying to chop the log like its an axe.

Time for a bigger saw cylinder? 🤔  Mine had a 2 1/2 x 12 inch cylinder and only 15 gpm at 1500 psi for the saw motor, clamp and cylinder. With the needle valve and that cylinder it could go from too fast/kill the engine to being able to stop the cut at anytime.  Just my opinion, but being able to slow or even stopping the cut is crucial.  On mine, I could stop the saw cylinder from extending but the saw motor stayed engaged making restarting the cut easy. If the splitter has a  two stage pump it is handy to accurately control the speed of the cut.

I can't explain why...but the flow control for the saw cylinder worked much better on the return side than the pressure side.

[stevea303]

Doc,
Here ya go. Wet saw dust coverin everything but ya get the jist.


 

 

[stevea303]

Blackfoot,
Funny you mention bigger cylinder, I just bought a 3" bore 6" stroke to try just that thinking more fluid to fill cylinder will slow things down a bit. 

[doc henderson]

3 inch cylinder x 6"  is 42 cubic inches or 0.18 gallons.  5.5 feet per minute.  or 1" per second.  your force will increase by a factor of 9.  nice pic.  looks like a good view of the saw on and off valve.  wanting to see the bar vs push cylinder with attachment points.  a longer push arm coming out from the bar pivot point will slow the rotation and shorten the arc. and increase force.  as you post you  can rotate the pics.  looking very good and I hope you solve your bar rotation speed and pressure soon and easily.

[stevea303]

That sounds way "more better'r"
That flow sounds more manageable with my quarter inch needle valve

[doc henderson]

I see your bar cylinder and it looks good.  the effective torque arm is from the center pivot of the bar to the attachment of the end of the roc.  another shot straight on from the back would help but I do not see any thing to change.  maybe that shot fully extended and closed.  In the arc you have set up, does the rod fully retract and extend.  i.e. using full range of cylinder to get the arc you want?