Log cabin without seasoning logs

[lshobie]

One reason to season the logs  is they become lighter and easier to move.  I milled a bunch of D-logs last summer and it was all I could do to get them in the drying stack with ramps.  Now nine months later I can put a log over my shoulder and carry it with no problem.  And I assume they will continue to lose weight as the dry more.

Hey Joe I'm curious how they turned out after drying, did they bow?  and how did the flats dry - are they humped?    Red pine?
Thanks!

[rusticretreater]

I live in a log home and have dealt with issues the previous owner didn't fix.

The reason log homes are built with green logs is that you can mill them easier than dry logs, plus slightly bend them to make them conform during the building process and they can flex a bit when the building settles.  I imagine the manufacturers would lose a lot of logs to waste if they tried to dry them straight.  Plus the cost increase would price the buyers out of the market.

The home is constructed of D shaped logs which are also tongue and grooved top and bottom to fit together.  The corners are overlapped like lincoln logs.

When we moved in, everything was fine.  A/C good.  I was lying in bed one morning and looked over and could see light coming in the corner of the bedroom.  I checked some of the other rooms and found we had holes all over the place.  A building defect or shrinkage, I don't know.  We bought backing rod(special foam strings of different sizes), plugged all the holes and then put on the log caulk.

The logs of the house have developed big cracks over time so you have to seal them to keep water out of the cracks.  You take care of this by filling the crack with the backing rod and coating with the caulk.  You don't want to fill the entire crack with caulk, it will tear over time. You only have to do the outside of the house. 

[Don P]

A true butt and pass ain't worth a flip. It doesn't take but a minute to turn that into a draftstopping notch and pass. Again multiple profiles from the V and A KyKid mentioned to vertical dovetails and cogged horizontal tails. Simply butting logs together in the corners, there is really no excuse.

This was one company's solution. Each manufacturer has their own details and profiles. This was a Northeastern, nice package, asphalt impregnated foam seals and KD logs (Nyle kilns). No white hair, about 30 years ago  :D.



 

 

 

[kantuckid]

There's one log home company about 5 miles away that does KD, another about 20 miles away. I've built both ways from multiple companies and much prefer dry. I've bought KD timbers from the company about 20 miles away. I've also built supposedly kd log homes that I can only assume both doors of the kiln were open and the cart never broke stride  :.

Look around Jamestown, TN for one area of log home mfg.'s who KD the wall logs. There are others and mostly seen with "logs" that are milled.
History trivia near the above locale- Famous WWI soldier and Medal of Honor recipient SGT York is from there. The local HS feature him as their hero mascot, etc.. We camp their in The Big South Fork Recreation area on the TN side. Oneida Log Homes near Oneida, TN is probably the larger of the mfg.'s there.
FWIW, last summer I cut some pines on my place for my loft ceiling joists, cut a flat for floor on one side and peeled them. they are now on blocks and sort of black w/mildew effects but will likely still use them after cleanup, no mold as such. 
 
I once worked in tech school with a HS carpentry instructor who'd built his own version of a log house using 6x6 rough sawed pine. He used small pieces of plywood as draft stops in corners and butt joints as his notion of a proper butt & pass corner joint. I never saw the home, just heard him talk about it. 

[lshobie]

A true butt and pass ain't worth a flip. It doesn't take but a minute to turn that into a draftstopping notch and pass. Again multiple profiles from the V and A KyKid mentioned to vertical dovetails and cogged horizontal tails. Simply butting logs together in the corners, there is really no excuse.

This was one company's solution. Each manufacturer has their own details and profiles. This was a Northeastern, nice package, asphalt impregnated foam seals and KD logs (Nyle kilns). No white hair, about 30 years ago  :D.

I agree that a true butt and pass could be made more effectively with just a little more work.  I changed the name on my thread from "Butt and pass" to "notch and pass" for that very reason.  I've seen some people building round log butt and pass with the logs suspended by spikes with large gaps on the lengths as well as large gaps at the ends (butts), which almost seems counterintuitive because of the added work chinking as well as heat loss.  Im building mine as an experiment with green logs, "D" profile and log on log.  Ill be building more on my property to check out different building methods, most most likely wont me leaving large gaps to chink as I dont think it makes much sense if you have the material to build log on log....and im not opposed to work but am limited on time.

[Joe Hillmann]

One reason to season the logs  is they become lighter and easier to move.  I milled a bunch of D-logs last summer and it was all I could do to get them in the drying stack with ramps.  Now nine months later I can put a log over my shoulder and carry it with no problem.  And I assume they will continue to lose weight as the dry more.

Hey Joe I'm curious how they turned out after drying, did they bow?  and how did the flats dry - are they humped?    Red pine?
Thanks!

I dont know yet.  They are still drying, waiting for spring to start building.
It is a mix of red and white pine, a lot of popple and some hardwoods.  The long ash log is the only one that I think is too bowed to use as is.
The long pine logs were kind of like spaghetti when taken off the mill.  I was careful when stacking them to dry so I assume they are still straight.

[Don P]

Got me looking in the OLD pics. Several of my young sweetwife grinning from ear to ear. Rockin chair stuff  .

This is what we used to align the logs as we lagged them together. The "inside" part of the jaw grabbed low on the upper log, the handle foot grabbed the upper part of the lower log. When you pull on the handle it slides the log horizontally towards the operator. So if the log needed moving you set it up either handle inside or handle outside depending on whether it needed to bow in or out. I have a speed square in my left hand running down the flat faces across the joint and I'm telling Nick how hard to pull as I run the lag. I gave the last version of that tool away to a local crew a few years ago, it went through at least a half dozen iterations after that very early one. It was welded with UHMW plastic feet by then. Always meant to make one with a bottle jack, porta-power style. Anyway, in pine or cedar our walls were flat, aligned at every lag and drawn down dollar bill tight in predrilled countersunk holes. This was pre battery tools, there was a stop and untangle at least once per day  :D.



 

[kantuckid]

As I recall,  the kid (now a local electrician in early 50's) who was helping me, either pulled or crowbar'ed them sideways. Or, maybe I fastened one end then used the log as a lever to straighten itself? Well, sort of. 
High-tech rednecks seen above on the wall.  :D

[Don P]

While I was in that box... This was a set of pics from when the forum was new. I was showing the V and A notch as an easy way to build with sawmilled logs. I ran into this mostly from the WI companies.

This is the joint. I found it easier to centerline all the logs and build to those lines, keep the lines plumb, straight and square.


 
I found it easier to rough the joint with a Prazi beam saw.


 
Then kerfing it with the chainsaw, or sawzall, or handsaw, and bring the faces of the joint into full contact.


 
Stack, check alignment. If there are any "underhangs" projecting wood from the log below... a water catching ledge, mark it up and drawknife the offending wood away. Create drip edges not water catching ledges.


 
Prebore/counterbore and run lags. The lag most companies used at the time was a 3/8x10" for 8" logs. When countersunk you had 3"+ of "bite" into the log below. The prebore was 1/2" to allow settlement. The counterbore is 1-1/8" to allow for the 1" typical washer on that size lag. In the NDS a 3/8" lag is the largest that can be run without a pilot in the log below, the method to their madness.




Running a power planer along the center of the underside will help keep the outer edges in contact as the drying log makes those flat faces convex. Ripping a lengthwise groove on the bottom edge will encourage it to check on that self draining face.

[Walnut Beast]

Pretty neat 👍

[kantuckid]

I plan to do this corner joint but will be using D-logs, not two bark edges. I bought a power hand planer just for the log bellies as DonP suggests. The MT Amish use two-6" timber screws too pull that joint together along with spray foam for a seal.
I've played around with how I'll use a Speed square/regular square or maybe make a simple jig to layout the joint marks? Not decided on that part yet. Centerlines are a must.

Noteworthy: The MT Amish leave a blunt tip on the "male" log end, not cutting all the way until cuts meet on the "female" cuts. I like that cut better than a full finish to the angle cuts-seems stronger as what woods left is more yet the entry in my mind is enough for joint strength. I wish I had that mortiser-pricey tool for a one-off build like mine. 

[lshobie]

I just put one log on the other and slice down - after a few times they are pretty much bang on and tight.  I tried 45s and marking but found that cutting downward thru both the male and female is the simplest and wastes less material.  I dont think these notches are as structurally integral as they are good for a sealing notch.

Cheers