Blade tracking

[Southwood]

I have had a woodland mills HM126 for 2 years now, warranty was up last week. Since day 1 have had nothing but problems with blade tracking. The follower side (non drive side) would always throw the blade back no matter what I tried & whatever suggestions their tech people gave me would not work. It is really frustrating when you have so much time & money invested to make no progress. Anyhow today I think I have finally found the problem, the threads of the tracking bolt & nut that it screws into are flattened & stripped (not sure why they didn't use a higher grade nut & bolt). The nut is welded to the carriage & cant be fixed without major fabrication. Anyone ever have this problem & if so how did you fix it? I'm gonna call woodland mills in the morning to see if it will be covered by warranty since it only ran out last week & that this has been an ongoing problem since day one. My last question is should the blade be sitting level? Mine has always had a backwards tilt to it. Changing the vertical tracking has no affect on the blade. Since I have had the mill I have had to replace wheel bearings, throttle cable, clutch, on & off switch, rollers & guides,  several drive belts, & way too many blades for very little saw time.

[Southside]

Hopefully they come good on fixing the issue.  But in the event they don't could you re-tap the nut either to a larger size or use a heli-coil kit to get holding thread and avoid replacing it?   

[pineywoods]

Where in arkansas ?   Blade tracking shouldn't be too complicated.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Where in arkansas ?   Blade tracking shouldn't be too complicated.

Hey Y'all....watch this.....
( old saying )

[Southside]

Hey Y'all....watch this.....
( old saying )

Hold my beer.... 

(famous last words)  :D

[Southwood]

I'm in mena arkansas. I doubt I could go with a bigger bolt, because the bolt is designed to sit in the tracking bar. The bar is drilled for 1 size bolt. I guess I could always try & tear it apart & drill the bar to accept a bigger size if I had to.

[Kbeitz]

Could you post a picture of your problem... ?

[Skipper11A]

You finally found the problem...that was the hard part!  Fixing it is easy.  You'll need to cut off the old nuts with an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel and weld new nuts on.  You might also consider using a jam nut to lock in your adjustment and spread the load to more of the bolt's threads. Somebody you know can cut and weld steel.  Ask your friends. I'm thinking about farmers.  Also, Cook's saw has a lot of youtube  video's about sawblade alignment that may be helpful.

[Kbeitz]

Welding new nuts on is what I had in mind but I would like a picture
to see what you had. I you do weld a new nut on look into the long nuts.



 

[Den-Den]

Sounds like a new nut and bolt will be required to fix what you found.  Consider the possibility that the stripped threads are not the cause of all your problems but only a symptom.  The blade should be level with the track, if it is not there is an alignment problem.

[drobertson]

I agree with the skipper, once you get down to cutting/grinding off, and having the new hardware back on,,make arrangements for a tad bit longer adjusting bolt to allow for the locking/jam nuts.  I thought the same thing, jam nuts really help control things from working,

[Southwood]

Will add photos when I figure out how to do it. I'm new to the forum so I'm still learning. Wish I could weld, but I have epilepsy & am unable to weld. Flashing lights can trigger my seizures. I got off the phone with woodland mills & have to wait for a decision. They said I may have to remove engine & replace whole assembly. Very frustrating since I don't even think I have milled 30 logs since owning it. Have wasted too many logs trying to troubleshoot a bad mill. I think my mill is a lemon. Since owning I've had to replace throttle cable, on/off switch, bandwheel bearings, guide rollers & bearings, clutch, & way too many blades. Now I'm expected to tear the whole mill apart. Very bad situation I'm in.

[Southwood]

Here are some pics.

[DbltreeBelgians]

Threads have gaulded up. Lack of lubrication and or too much force applied for the quality of material. You could cut the nut off and have someone weld on a new nut. Another option would be to drill it out oversized and retap next size up if there is enough material left to do so. I can't tell from the photo what size the bolt and nut are so the second option may not be feasible and I can't see what the bolt is pushing or pulling on. Others will surely chime in on other ideas that may be a better option.
Also working with Woodland Mills may be your best option seeing all the issues you mention that you've had. I've heard many good comment about them and I have no doubt they will work with you to make your mill function properly.
Good luck and let us know how things go.

Brent

[Kbeitz]

Since you don't weld you'r best bet would to tap it out to the next size.
I'm betting the next size up will be metric so you will need to change your
bolt also.

[goose63]

Southwood a 4 inch grinder with a cut off wheel will get that nut off there.

Wish I were closer to you would only take a few minutes to fix that.

[drobertson]

KB does have a good idea there, but rather than looking to metric, and not really knowing the bolt size, guessing 1/2-13?  I would be more inclined to get a reduced shank 33/64, .515 drill bit, they will fit a 1/2" drive, drill motor, then tap for a 9/16-18 fine thread, just me, but getting away from grinding and welding and all that, I"m all for that route, just lazy I reckon, you still have to get bolts and nuts, this way its bolts, and I still would get the lock/ jam nuts to hold it once the alignment is there,,old saying lots of cats and ways to skin'em

[Slingshot]

   Came from China.......Probably metric......





______________________________________

[Southside]

Sounds like a new nut and bolt will be required to fix what you found.  Consider the possibility that the stripped threads are not the cause of all your problems but only a symptom.  The blade should be level with the track, if it is not there is an alignment problem.

Logically I would agree with that statement, but look to the owners manual and the manufacturer for that answer.  On my mill the non drive side is 1/16" higher than the driven side when doing a full alignment, per the WM owners manual.  I was surprised to see that but in the case of my mill the blade pulls down upon engagement with the log, so you set it 1/16" higher on that side. 

[Southwood]

The welder was here today & replaced that bad nut. I was excited to get it done. I figured I would be up & running today, but no luck. I went to adjust the drive side tracking & that nut & bolt are messed up as well. I called woodland mills & they want to send more parts to try & fix this 2 year old tracking problem. Upon further inspection I noticed my bandwheels are not spinning true. My question is could bad wheels be causing all my problems? My mill is like new & I have way to many problems to mention for only cutting 30 logs if I'm lucky. They will not replace the mill, but said I can resell it. Anyone wants to buy a mill  :-[?I need to find the problem & fix it

[kelLOGg]

I would go with Acme rod and nut for tensioning.
Bob

[Den-Den]

The welder was here today & replaced that bad nut. I was excited to get it done. I figured I would be up & running today, but no luck. I went to adjust the drive side tracking & that nut & bolt are messed up as well. I called woodland mills & they want to send more parts to try & fix this 2 year old tracking problem. Upon further inspection I noticed my bandwheels are not spinning true. My question is could bad wheels be causing all my problems? My mill is like new & I have way to many problems to mention for only cutting 30 logs if I'm lucky. Since they won't replace the mill, I need to find the problem & fix it

A slight (1/16" ??) side to side wobble should not be a problem, noticeable radial run-out would worry me.  You should also check for deflection (alignment changes) when blades are tensioned.

[sawmilljoe]

I have had a Woodland's 126 for over 2 years so the same mill.  If you would take some videos of your wheels spinning with out a blade and with a and on I may be adle to help. Tracking on these mills I very basic to adjust some help should get you going. Message me if you want I will do my best to help

[Peter Drouin]

With the blade off, Set a piece of wood or something next to the wheel [1/32] away from the ones the blade rides on, spin it and look at the 1/32 space to see if the wheel is true. The 1/32 should be the same while the wheel it's turning. Just a thought.
Good luck.

[bandmiller2]

To retain sanity it may be better to sell the mill as you have lost all confidence in it and it likely will continue to be a festering sore. Buy a brand name mill and enjoy yourself. Frank C.

[Magicman]

Maybe this is an isolated incident because there seems to be many satisfied Woodland Mills owners here on the FF.   ???

[Jeff]

To retain sanity it may be better to sell the mill as you have lost all confidence in it and it likely will continue to be a festering sore. Buy a brand name mill and enjoy yourself. Frank C.

Woodland mills IS a brand name mill with a whole lot of satisfied customers. My next remark I m sure is not going to go over very well with the original poster, but having been in sawmilling my entire life, and running this website for almost 2 decades now, and seeing and hearing and witnessing a lot, there are times when the problems are created BY the operator simply by the way they do things. I can't say for sure that is the case here, but dang, we have members here that have built mills out of wood and made them saw.

I will agree though, this may not be the mill for this person.

[sawmilljoe]

Woodland mills IS a brand name mill with a whole lot of satisfied customers. My next remark I m sure is not going to go over very well with the original poster, but having been in sawmilling my entire life, and running this website for almost 2 decades now, and seeing and hearing and witnessing a lot, there are times when the problems are created BY the operator simply by the way they do things. I can't say for sure that is the case here, but dang, we have members here that have built mills out of wood and made them saw.

I will agree though, this may not be the mill for this person

Well said Jeff
I have offered to try and help and have never got a response. Just hate seeing woodlands get trashed over this have heard nothing but great things about them. They have always gone above and beyond for me.

[Ben Cut-wright]

I have had a woodland mills HM126 for 2 years now, warranty was up last week. Since day 1 have had nothing but problems with blade tracking. The follower side (non drive side) would always throw the blade back no matter what I tried & whatever suggestions their tech people gave me would not work. It is really frustrating when you have so much time & money invested to make no progress. Anyhow today I think I have finally found the problem, the threads of the tracking bolt & nut that it screws into are flattened & stripped (not sure why they didn't use a higher grade nut & bolt). The nut is welded to the carriage & cant be fixed without major fabrication. Anyone ever have this problem & if so how did you fix it? I'm gonna call woodland mills in the morning to see if it will be covered by warranty since it only ran out last week & that this has been an ongoing problem since day one. My last question is should the blade be sitting level? Mine has always had a backwards tilt to it. Changing the vertical tracking has no affect on the blade. Since I have had the mill I have had to replace wheel bearings, throttle cable, clutch, on & off switch, rollers & guides,  several drive belts, & way too many blades for very little saw time.

There have been several comments and questions regarding where the components you picture and write about are located and how you are attempting to use the adjustments. 

Has anyone attempted to address the "Blade Backwards *Tilt"?   

The "vertical tracking" adjustment you mention is on the drive side ONLY, correct?  There is no vertical tracking adjustment provision on the other bandwheel, right? 

Then, if I understand correctly, *after the weld repair of the one stripped tracking adjustment, another stripped thread problem was discovered?  Your info is a bit fuzzy as to precisely where these damaged threads are.  Perhaps both drive and idler side tracking adjustments were damaged all along?  If so that would answer why the vertical adjustment had no affect, and why the horizontal tracking adjustment would not maintain its position.  Have ALL these tracking adjustment components been inspected for damage? 

"Band wheels not spinning true" is too vague a description to even guess about. 

"Name brand" or no, problems occur with some mills, any brand.  Whether these adjustments were abused or they failed for other reasons, these should be easily repaired. Encouraging any fairly new owner to "sell his problem" to someone else would be a big red flag and poor advertising, IMO.   

[btulloh]

If that bolt is tightened without slacking the one on the opposite side it would be easy to cause that problem.  With blade tension reduced these bolts adjust with minimal torque as long as the opposing bolt is slacked before tightening the othe bolt.

Just my experience with my mill. 
BT

[Southwood]

I'm away for a few days so can't get any more pics or videos now. Your right I'm fairly new at sawing, but have worked on my buddies woodmizer for a few months before purchasing my mill. My neighbor has been milling for a decade now & he can't figure out my problems, after 2 weeks of trying to figure it out, he told me good luck. He couldn't understand what was causing my tracking & cutting problems. I did my research before buying my mill & had read many good things about woodland mills, that is why I bought it. I just wish my experience with this mill was a good one. I bought a mill that was designed to do a job & after replacing so many parts, & still not to be able to get anything done or have the mill do what it was designed to do is very frustrating. None of the replacement parts fixed my problems. Maybe the new bandwheels will fix it, I'm trying to stay optimistic. The tracking housing on the drive side that the horizontal bolt goes through has bad threads on the inside housing. I already replaced the follower side that was bad. The threads on that side were messed up on the nut & bolt. When I spin the drive side bandwheel by hand with no drive belt or blade on it, it looks as if the bandwheel is not spinning true. When I get the follower side tracked, the blade sits even with the back of the bandwheel at the bottom, but sticks out past the bandwheel on the side & top. When I spin the bandwheel by hand on the follower side you can feel the blade dip in & out on the back of the wheel. It does it every time it hits the same spoke. No matter how much I mess with the vertical tracking, the blade will not sit level. I went through the whole tracking adjustment with the tech people on the phone for an hour & we were unsuccessful at getting it level. He told me to run it & see if it corrects itself. I have been patient & have worked with the tech people for 2 years & have made no progress. This post was not intended on trashing the company. I just stated my problems & was looking for new advice that the company didn't think of. I do believe it is possible that a mill could have been poorly built or have internal problems that were not caught when being made. No company in the world has a 100% success rate at producing a defective free product. All I want is what I paid for & that is a mill that works, I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.

[Crusarius]

Just a random thought. when you are playing with tracking have you shifted the blade to a point that the set could be removed from the blade? I noticed when I was trying to align everything on mine that I did that. I have not cut anything but am wondering if I did remove the set while trying to align it.

[Southwood]

Not sure what you mean. It is a brand new blade & teeth are set. The blade will not track evenly with back of bandwheel. It sits even at the bottom & that's it.

[Jeff]

If your band teeth somehow run up on your guides, it will take out your set

[Southwood]

Ok understood. I always have my guides away from the blade so it does not interfere with my tracking adjustments when I set the tracking. I have gone through this process with woodland mills probably a dozen time in the last 2 years.