Anyone heard of Italian Stone Pine? Pinus pinea L

[cabindoc]

The ap I have on my phone tells me this is the species of pine.  Anyone have a different view or another ap that may be more accurate?  Tree is from NJ, northern i'm told, or northeast at least. 

The ap I use is planet net



 

[Texas Ranger]

Could be any species of pine, bark not the best identity item by itself, other than in some common trees.

[HemlockKing]

Any pictures of the needles? The bark looks like matured red pine. I have never heard of a Italian stone pine

[cabindoc]

I'll look for needles today.  this is what I have.

 

 

[Don P]

Well, its a mediterranian tree, these are in NJ. were these ornamentals or native? If native I'd cast my net closer to home. I posted a link to a NJ pine tree list in the post you started on this yesterday. That end cut looks like a red to me, pinus resinosa, our cousin of the european hard pines.

[Southside]

Did they grow there or were they trucked in? 

[cabindoc]

Land clearing job I was told in northern NJ but I got 5 loads of these from this guy and no end in site.  Guy I got them from is a firewood processor so he just gives them to me as he obviously cant sell as firewood.  So trucked in, yes but I cant see them being trucked all that far.  

I looked at the list DonP and it is so hard for me, a non professional, to tell the difference when I compare my pics to all those native to NJ, also since I don't know exactly whence they came.....can't narrow it down.

I'm hoping you pro's might be able to.

[firefighter ontheside]

That end grain shot looks like the logs of my house....red pine.  I would lean toward a forest of red pine being cut down in New Jersey.  I find it hard to  believe there is a forest of Mediterranean pine growing in NJ.

[barbender]

Whether they are red pine or a Mediterranean pine, you probably won't know the difference when you saw them and use the lumber. They're fairly similar species from what I understand.

[SwampDonkey]

Red pine bark is a mix of these colors, greys and browns with a reddish hue.





I don't know about down your way, but up here we planted red pine on a lot of abandoned fields. The range map shows it grows all over NB, but not naturally. It was natural on sites with red clay sandy soil. Around where I live it's dark brown soil with a sandy clay so it drains faster. That red clay will send a log truck up to it's frame mighty quick. :D

[HemlockKing]

Red pine bark is a mix of these colors, greys and browns with a reddish hue.





I don't know about down your way, but up here we planted red pine on a lot of abandoned fields. The range map shows it grows all over NB, but not naturally. It was natural on sites with red clay sandy soil. Around where I live it's dark brown soil with a sandy clay so it drains faster. That red clay will send a log truck up to it's frame mighty quick. :D

Sd I know this is little out of range of this topic, but have you ever looked into planting giant red sequoia (ask you because your climate is similar) in NB? I know there is a few private property's here in NS that have some and apparently they are growing good. The red sequoia comes from the fog belt of California, I'm in a mild climate, warm winters cooler summers, lots of fog, my land has good elevation and drainage, I've wondered about these trees..

[cabindoc]

Red pine bark is a mix of these colors, greys and browns with a reddish hue.





I don't know about down your way, but up here we planted red pine on a lot of abandoned fields. The range map shows it grows all over NB, but not naturally. It was natural on sites with red clay sandy soil. Around where I live it's dark brown soil with a sandy clay so it drains faster. That red clay will send a log truck up to it's frame mighty quick. :D

SwampDonkey, down in s NJ. we have sandy loam soil with a little clay.  In n NJ it is more shale and rock, very little sand but, with the link DonP sent me it does show red pine is indigenous to 4 counties in NJ.  All to the north of me.

That end grain shot looks like the logs of my house....red pine.  I would lean toward a forest of red pine being cut down in New Jersey.  I find it hard to  believe there is a forest of Mediterranean pine growing in NJ.

Was your house from a mfr?  as in kit?  or is your house more the handcrafted variety?

I read up on both red pine and shortleaf pine and the description of bark and where they grow is so very similar.  I would love the answer to be red pine.  I know of several Mfr's who use red pine for log homes.

I might just have to call my forester in on this one.  

[Southside]

Can say without a doubt that's not Short Leaf. 

[WDH]

Shortleaf has pitch pockets in the bark.  What you have is certainly red pine.  There is no reason to think that your pines are imports from Europe when the native red pines are growing all around you. 

[Don P]

The sign to me is star shaped hearts and a more "spicy" smell... I know not very scientific  :D 

[Southside]

Don - really?  I was expecting so much more.  Something that referenced a grading / code book from 1914 or an association alert that recently exposed a red pine imposter.  You MUST have an old house that sits over the side of some mountain ledge made of Mediterranean Pine that you affixed a cantilevered porch onto after encountering a den of wood chucks - no?  At the very least isn't there something about the off set pith thread that can be brought into the conversation?   :D  

Mom's not gonna be happy about this.... ;D

[WDH]

Southside, no more coffee for you this morning :D. 

[barbender]

Hey Southside, I think Jeff made you a moderator- you may have misheard it as an "agitator" though?😂

[Southside]

Just think how dull it would be without me to stir the pot.  :D

[Jeff]

Is that a cannibus reference?

[Don P]

I went in to pull a permit for a job that required baring a pretty good sized piece of ground. "Are you a registered disturber?" 

 I am now a registered disturber  ;D

[Old Greenhorn]

I went in to pull a permit for a job that required baring a pretty good sized piece of ground. "Are you a registered disturber?"

I am now a registered disturber  ;D

Well, that should open up all kinds of opportunities! ;D :D

[Southside]

I remember something about that in my SHARP class. Chesapeake Bay thing maybe? It is sure to get worse. 

[cabindoc]

Is that a cannibus reference?

calm down Jeff, no one is violating your rules here.....
back to the subject at hand.  I drove through what is known as the pinelands of NJ yesterday and took these pics.  These trees are certainly NOT what I have.  Thank you Jesus, as they are about as twisted as my sister in law.
 

 

[cabindoc]

having technical problems with pics.  Sorry.  These go with the previous post.


 

 

[cabindoc]

This a picture of the pine logs we have been milling for posts.


 

[Jeff]

Calm down jeff?   Calm down jeff?  Calm down jeff?  Ya know, my attempt at humor, has not a thing to do with you.  How about a thankyou for going out of my way to allow this topic to come back after wasting part of my sunday morning cleaning up topics you had convoluted by not following rules then crying about it.
Those that know me know it takes a bit to pith me off but if you know me, you know it can happen.  Im pretty g d tolerant. You just made it happen.
My rules?  KISS MY  

[barbender]

Jeff was not mad. Jeff was being funny. Now Cabindoc comes in and reveals a snarky attitude and talks to you like he owns the place. Now Jeff is mad.😬😬😂

[firefighter ontheside]

 @cabindoc my home was not from a kit.  It was handcrafted in MN with handpeeled logs that were then scribed and notched.  Essentially the log shell was built completely in MN and then taken back down and shipped to MO.

[cabindoc]

was it a company that did that?  or an individual?  a little off topic, but just curious.

[cabindoc]

BTW, thanx all to the replies and input.  Although I don't have a definitive, with this input I can eliminate some species and I feel better about that and so I thank all for that.

And to Jeff, thanx for straightening out my mis steps.  I promise, I will be a good boy.

[firefighter ontheside]

was it a company that did that?  or an individual?  a little off topic, but just curious.

It was a company out of Grand Marais MN called Senty Loghomes.  It was a small outfit.  I don't think he employed more than a half dozen guys.  He and one of his guys came down to MO to help me put the logs back up over 2 days.  I had a crane on sight and about 6 friends and family to help with labor.  It looks like they are out of business as I'm sure the owner retired.

[cabindoc]

was it a company that did that?  or an individual?  a little off topic, but just curious.

It was a company out of Grand Marais MN called Senty Loghomes.  It was a small outfit.  I don't think he employed more than a half dozen guys.  He and one of his guys came down to MO to help me put the logs back up over 2 days.  I had a crane on sight and about 6 friends and family to help with labor.  It looks like they are out of business as I'm sure the owner retired.

Nice!  Take care of the outside and keep her well maintained.  Finding guys like me to make repairs is difficult.  we are unicorns in a dying breed of tradesmen.  

[Clark]

Back to the topic at hand...I don't see red pine in those logs at all. Unless it is the world's most poorly growing red pine with bark that more resembles one of the 2-needle pines. Doesn't NJ have some native pitch, jack or Norfolk Island ( ???) pines? 

Sure, someone could have planted Italian stone pines but something local and isn't red pine seems most likely to me.

Clark

[Don P]

I think I've seen 3 different kinds of pine in this thread. The original, what I believe are red pine logs, the southern pine of some kind end cut 6x6 (which is doing a good job of showing how bluestain travels in through the rays), and the pitch? pines growing in the barrens.

[WDH]

Pitch pine has three needles to the fascicle, not two. 

[Jeff]

It would certainly identify as red pine if it was here, but there were several places in the u.p. where I could show you rows of European Larch that was planted as end rows to red pine plantations as study trees. I believe they weere all harvested now.

[Clark]

Pitch pine has three needles to the fascicle, not two.

And Norfolk Island Pine? Clearly my intimate knowledge of the species is tied to the number of times I have seen and examined it. I should have a been a bit more broad and stated the culprit is likely one of the eastern hard pines but in my very intimate knowledge of red pine I would most assuredly say, not red pine. Don't you have Virginia and some others over there?

Clark

[firefighter ontheside]

It is definitely not Norfolk Island Pine.  You may be thinking of something else.

[Ianab]

nd Norfolk Island Pine?

And Norfolk Island Pine?

Norfolk Island Pine is a species of Araucaria, not a true pine. Basically the Southern hemisphere equivalent of Pinus from the North. I think they are quite common in Florida area as they are resistant to salt spray and wind, but wouldn't handle the colder climates. 

Araucaria heterophylla - Wikipedia

[Clark]

Araucaria heterophylla - Wikipedia

I understand how Jeff feels after this thread. Clearly it isn't Norfolk Island pine. With that, I bow out.