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Author Topic: Northwestern US Tree Id's  (Read 581 times)

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Offline JDowns71

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Northwestern US Tree Id's
« on: September 13, 2021, 07:15:09 PM »
Recently moved seasonally to the Coeur D'Alene (Northern Idaho Panhandle) area onto a 10 acre family lot.   For a few years this will be a seasonal residence until I can permanently get out of the city in Phoenix.

I will have tons of future questions looking for advice and knowledge for equipment purchases from a tractor (Kubota L4060?), sawmill (WM LT15 vs Norwood), etc.  

 I've spent the first season improving the apartment in the pole barn until a permanent barndominium can be built, setting up the wood shop, installing the dog run / garden with a paneled hog-wire fence, etc..  

The property is heavily sloped from east to west at about 12 degrees and is predominately inhabited by Western Larch, Unknown (see question below), WRC, Doug Fir, and Ponderosa Pine in order of density.

My major unknown is largely clumped around the WRC and lower half of the property.  About 40 acres of property drains into a bowl that is the bottom of this property.

Young trunk





Older Trunk




As the tree gets older the trunk gets heavier and thicker bark.  This species is probably one of the biggest trees on the lot next to the Ponderosa's.  It struggles under the WRC but when has open room like the Larch can get massive.




Second id is a tree that grows along the creek bed at the bottom of the property in areas at the edge of the WRC / Unknown or in open areas with lots of light.  Once Id'd I can figure out how to promote more of these to thrive.



 

 



Thanks for your help.

Regards

Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2021, 09:37:47 PM »
I think I figured out the first one and feel like a total city slicker now.  Grand Fir.   

The second one might be Rocky Mountain Maple or Sycamore Maple.  I'm leaning towards Rocky Mountain Maple since its native to the area.

Regards,

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2021, 11:22:54 PM »
I just looked them up in my Pacific Coast Tree Finder guide (a little pocket guide).  Yep, Grand Fir and Rocky Mountain Maple.  Sycamore would have 5 lobes where RMM has 3.  Also, maple has matching/opposing leaves on the stem where sycamore has alternating, according to the guide.  There are a couple fancy terms for those patterns.

BTW, I have red and white fir. They make crappy lumber and posts/beams.  Tends to twist as it dries.  I'd pass on milling the grand fir (unless locals say otherwise) and go with the DF or Ponderosa.
John Sawicky

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Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2021, 12:55:51 AM »
@ljohnsaw.  Thanks for the confirmation.  

Fortunately most of the Grand Fir is healthy and some of the largest trees on the property.   For milling I'm aiming for the dead standing, and thinning of Western Larch along with some WRC for future decking and furniture projects.   I may have a few Ponderosa's that need to go but they are few on the property or where they are located are in areas designated as zones for conservation.  Any Larch waste can be used for firewood.  Within a week of moving in I had three neighbors come by to say their hello's and all of them mentioned the four dead standing Larch within view of the drive and how good they wood be for firewood and if I needed help they would take wood for helping out.   They all left pretty quick when I mentioned the Doug fir left overs I was gonna have.   :D

I do have a 36" at the breast DF right next to the barn that is being taken down by a professional this winter.  I'm having them cut into logs, half are going to the neighbors, I'm keeping the other half.  They are gonna chip the waste for a slope around the barn area to help erosion and keep back the brush and bull thistles until I decide what's gonna get planted there.  Most likely Bearberry.  

Unfortunately the two species I want to mill are probably the trickiest for a beginner, but such is life.  Sometimes you get thrown right into the fire and have to figure it out.

Offline Ianab

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2021, 04:33:51 AM »
Sycamore Maple is Acer pseudoplatanus, which is a European species, but naturalised in the US and here in NZ. It's name is due to it looking a lot like a Plane ( European Sycamore) . 


I have several in my back garden, and if I get slack on the lawn mowing I'd soon have a forest of them.  :D


The leaves don't look right though, so It's probably correct that it's the local species. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2021, 05:54:28 AM »
Welcome to the forum. 
Enjoy your land!!!
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2021, 09:39:23 AM »
The broadleaf is certainly a maple.  Bud scars and bud color and formation on the tips will really help ID it for certain this fall.

I hope you will consider promoting them for the outrageously unprofitable yet satisfying hobby of sugaring. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2021, 04:52:27 PM »
The broadleaf is certainly a maple.  Bud scars and bud color and formation on the tips will really help ID it for certain this fall.

I hope you will consider promoting them for the outrageously unprofitable yet satisfying hobby of sugaring.
Great now you got me thinking about making my own sugar maple syrup!   The country club is down the road and my sister is a genius at sales and marketing.  So just maybe... :D

Since the weather has been cooling down and the paper wasps are going into hibernation I can start to explore a bit through the thick brush before they come in and start clearing all the brush and weeds with the Fecon.   Starting to see quite a few more spots where the Maple have thrived.  That will help me gauge the type of environment to create.  I really enjoy the different colors and texture they provide in that area against the cedars.


Where the cedars get thick.


Trio together.


Bad photo but Grand Fir mixed with Cedar and a very tall Ponderosa with now limb growth until the top.


Is this Oak?   I find it hard to believe since there is no larger oak anywhere near by.  I had thought poison oak but doesn't look like any poison oak I've ever seen or use to.  Really spindly trunks if you can call them that and is about 10ft tall.  Only growing in about a half acre area under the canopy with a little late afternoon sunlight.


 

Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2021, 04:57:43 PM »
Welcome to the forum.
Enjoy your land!!!
Thanks you!
Coming from the city where my tree count is 1 and cactus count is more than I desire....I'm loving it up here for sure.  Lots to learn of course.   

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2021, 06:07:38 PM »
Just a word of caution before you begin staying up late at night looking through supply catalogs and reading all about building pans and boilers, but not all maples make good sap for sugaring. That there maple you showed is not one. :D But we have a lot of sugar specialists on the forum and you can learn a lot, probably all you need to know by reading those threads. Mike is even one of those guys that has felt the strong draw and fell into it last season. You can however make syrup from a LOT of different species, even walnut (ask Doc). Yeah, we should almost have a sperate section for those folks because when the season hits, they come on hot and heavy with daily reports.
 Welcome to the forum. Read around and we will get you into more different things than you can track and next thing you know you will be asking about hook angles on bandsaw blades and wondering how you got there. :D :D :D
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I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2021, 12:50:25 AM »
Is this Oak?
Are there any acorns?  Looking in my guide it appears to be Oregon White Oak and should have short, stubby acorns.  It's range is from about the S.F. Bay area up the coastal range up to Canada.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2021, 07:00:17 AM »
I would release the maples even if you never sugar.  Imo its a better tree than all those dry matchsticks youve got.  

A stand of maple will make a more fertile soil, offer more browse for deer and put on a show in fall.  
Isaiah 63:10

Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2021, 03:22:54 PM »
Just a word of caution before you begin staying up late at night looking through supply catalogs and reading all about building pans and boilers, but not all maples make good sap for sugaring. That there maple you showed is not one. :D But we have a lot of sugar specialists on the forum and you can learn a lot, probably all you need to know by reading those threads. Mike is even one of those guys that has felt the strong draw and fell into it last season. You can however make syrup from a LOT of different species, even walnut (ask Doc). Yeah, we should almost have a sperate section for those folks because when the season hits, they come on hot and heavy with daily reports.
 Welcome to the forum. Read around and we will get you into more different things than you can track and next thing you know you will be asking about hook angles on bandsaw blades and wondering how you got there. :D :D :D
What a roller coaster... I went from dreams of home made maple syrup on waffles, on a cedar deck milled from my own land... to hot pockets in old Winnebego.  :D
There are plenty of maple trees in town.  I wonder if HD will notice me tinkering around the trees around the parking lot?   8)

Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2021, 03:28:43 PM »
Is this Oak?
Are there any acorns?  Looking in my guide it appears to be Oregon White Oak and should have short, stubby acorns.  It's range is from about the S.F. Bay area up the coastal range up to Canada.
I'll make my way down there later today and see if there are acorns or not.  I didn't even think to look.  I think I was more shocked by the leaves than anything. I did find a Northern Idaho Field guide from the FS, and Oak wasn't in the book.

I did get a shot of one of the larger trunks after crawling through some dead dogwood.
It is surrounded by what I think is either alder or birch if I'm reading the field guide correctly.
  


 

Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2021, 03:34:15 PM »
I would release the maples even if you never sugar.  Imo its a better tree than all those dry matchsticks youve got.  

A stand of maple will make a more fertile soil, offer more browse for deer and put on a show in fall.  
I'll research into releasing maples....hopefully thats not some sort of hippy tree love... :D


I really like the maples down there.  Really adds a nice contrast of coloring and look forward to clearing things out and promoting more if its growth.

Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2021, 04:32:55 PM »
No acorns to be found.  But it certainly flowers like Oak.



 

Now that I hiked all the way back up I just realized I didn't bother to search the ground..... :D.  I'm having more senior moments.

Lots of chipmunks down there though that are always yapping it up at the dog.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2021, 05:06:50 PM »
Just a word of caution before you begin staying up late at night looking through supply catalogs and reading all about building pans and boilers, but not all maples make good sap for sugaring. ....
What a roller coaster... I went from dreams of home made maple syrup on waffles, on a cedar deck milled from my own land... to hot pockets in old Winnebego.  :D
There are plenty of maple trees in town.  I wonder if HD will notice me tinkering around the trees around the parking lot?   8)
SOrry, I didn't mean to bust your bubble. I just wanted you be do your homework and you need not go any further than these forums when the time comes. Now let me temper my words just a bit and say that you can tap those trees, get sap and make syrup AND it will likely taste good, maybe great. But generally the sugar content will be lower thereby requiring a bunch more sap to boil down to equivariant syrup quantities for Sugar maple. I will further temper those words to note that trees are fickle and funny. You can run more sap from one side of a tree than other sides and some trees given the right conditions will produce more sap than trees of the exact same species not very distant from them. Soil, growing conditions, external challenges, all affect the sap production. Get a tree book and start noting the different maple species as you walk your woods. Birch can also be tapped for a very different product, so can Walnut. Have fun with it, but do thy homework or pay the price in hard education. :D ;D :)
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2021, 05:18:00 PM »
No acorns to be found.  But it certainly flowers like Oak.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 

Now that I hiked all the way back up I just realized I didn't bother to search the ground..... :D.  I'm having more senior moments.

Lots of chipmunks down there though that are always yapping it up at the dog.
I want to say that is chestnut oak, but it is not native to the NW. Chestnuts have a oblong acorn and the cap covers nearly half the length. I dunno, this is another @WDH job.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2021, 06:23:09 PM »
I think mystery solved.   

Not oak but Holodiscus Discolor.   

Ocean Spray, Panicles and Discs. | Name That Plant

That trunk above must be something else and I traced back down incorrectly.  Did I mention its thick in there.


Offline JDowns71

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2021, 06:27:25 PM »
Just a word of caution before you begin staying up late at night looking through supply catalogs and reading all about building pans and boilers, but not all maples make good sap for sugaring. ....
What a roller coaster... I went from dreams of home made maple syrup on waffles, on a cedar deck milled from my own land... to hot pockets in old Winnebego.  :D
There are plenty of maple trees in town.  I wonder if HD will notice me tinkering around the trees around the parking lot?   8)
SOrry, I didn't mean to bust your bubble. I just wanted you be do your homework and you need not go any further than these forums when the time comes. Now let me temper my words just a bit and say that you can tap those trees, get sap and make syrup AND it will likely taste good, maybe great. But generally the sugar content will be lower thereby requiring a bunch more sap to boil down to equivariant syrup quantities for Sugar maple. I will further temper those words to note that trees are fickle and funny. You can run more sap from one side of a tree than other sides and some trees given the right conditions will produce more sap than trees of the exact same species not very distant from them. Soil, growing conditions, external challenges, all affect the sap production. Get a tree book and start noting the different maple species as you walk your woods. Birch can also be tapped for a very different product, so can Walnut. Have fun with it, but do thy homework or pay the price in hard education. :D ;D :)
Well said.  Main reason I joined here is the vast years of wisdom and experience.   Already I'm walking around with a different set of eyes and noticing and taking note of things I would not have normally seen.
Regards,

Offline Clark

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2021, 08:03:49 PM »
The Ocean spray! The leaf struck a chord in my grey matter but I couldnt name it. I worked a summer out of McCall and did some habitat typing there. Ocean spray was certainly one of the plants on the list and I knew it but apparently not well!

Looks like you have paper birch. I recall seeing maps indicating their range went into the PNW but I never saw any while I was out there.

I know what you mean when you say the grand fir get large. I once snuck to within 20 yards of a feeding bear using a ~4 diameter grand fir log as cover and allowed me to put the sneak on. I have pictures somewhere

Clark
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2021, 09:07:29 PM »
Is this Oak?
Are there any acorns?  Looking in my guide it appears to be Oregon White Oak and should have short, stubby acorns.  It's range is from about the S.F. Bay area up the coastal range up to Canada.
JD,
For some reason, I though you were in Washington, not Idaho.  So, my Pacific Coast Tree Finder is worthless to your trees.  Sorry for leading you astray.  While the leaves appear to be oak-like, I'm not too sure it is an oak at this point.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Northwestern US Tree Id's
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2021, 11:12:31 PM »
I think it was university of VTs maple program that disproved a lot of the dominant maple myths. Tapping above major roots.  Tapping only the south side.  It may thaw sooner but the whole tree has similar production potential on every side.  I mean the whole top has capillary draw in every direction. 

I was pretty surprised that my TN red maple ratios was not far off from my buddies sugar maples up in mass.  Dont know the brix but it wasnt much worse than a sugar maple.  Maybe 45 or 50 to 1.
Isaiah 63:10


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