Tree climbing system

[Tinkerer]

Anyone climbed indoor or outdoor "rock" walls? Was wondering what ascent/descent device they use. It keeps up with you as you climb and slowly lowers you when weighted. Could this be useful in a tree?

[DDW_OR]

search the web for
automatic belay system

sounds like there have been some deaths

[mike_belben]

Foot and hand ascenders are expensive but very common in arborist work where tree is to remain and gaffs arent an option.  Footlocking a rope is something youll get awful tired of.  Now repelling out on a figure 8 on the other hand, never gets old.  Its fairly wise to stay rigged up to a figure 8 and repel line incase blood loss requires bailout before passout.  Not a lot of time to get setup in chainsaw accidents and with a maimed body part to boot.


The rare instance when i had to climb a rope i just used a prusik with a foot loop to inchworm up.  Works for up and down if you dont like repelling or have to get your rope out.  I was almost always using it to pull a stem coming down. 

[mike_belben]

Are you familiar with double rope technique?  

[BradMarks]

Figure 8 repelling, sounds like military!  Thru the eight over the shoulder and under the leg. Got a few burns that way!

[mike_belben]

Well, yeah i guess that is the first place i did it.  Slack went in the dominant hand and yanked behind you around the hip for friction which is the only way ive ever tried it.  No ropeburns.   we had to step backwards and free fall off a 50 ft high tower stimulating a helo leg.  The super tight rope harness strangling your junk was the worst part.. Just waiting inline for hours with thing tied on was very painful.  "Swedish seat" i think?  Cant remember.

[Tacotodd]

Swedish seats aren't that bad, as long as you get your junk "arranged" first. They aren't the most comfortable, but I've been in worse predicaments than that, by a mile! 

[Tinkerer]

Great info all- thank you!

Mike, 
I'm not familiar with the double rope technique- just learning. I am trying to sort all of it out and figure out where to start. Chainsaw milling and a new interest in trees in all their forms led to the road of tree removal, pruning, and recreational climbing. I've only climbed with gaffs, flipline, and saddle. Really want to learn the ropes to open up a whole new realm. It's really hard to figure out- even with great books and forums. 

[mike_belben]

Get "the tree climbers companion" in print.  Its all you need, and itll lay out many different ways to skin the same cat.  Its an A to Z little guidebook.

Mine is still in the crate with my saddle and stuff.  In the beginning i was bringing it up in the tree with me in my bib overalls just incase i forgot how to tie a critical knot.  If you cant tie a knot, TIE A LOT!



If you got a flipline, saddle and gaffs youre only a rope and a few 'biners away from DRT which is a very flexible system to monkey around in a hardwood canopy.  You should also be running 2 fliplines in my opinion, one being a wirecore if you are chainsaw cutting.    Say you are going up to a top to set a rope then coming down like a spider to head out from the trunk and maybe dice up a limb small so it doesnt damage a roof.  When youre going up and come to limbs you have to unhook to cross any limb you arent cutting.  Never ever unhook completely.  Toss one flipline above it and transfer over to that, then unhook the one below and continue.  



A double rope technique is sort of like having a 100ft long flipline really.  Its rigged to your center rings instead of your hip rings but otherwise not much difference.  A flipline uses gaffs to keep you planted.  A rope setup lets you get off your aching feet and sit in the saddle.  Me personally i need both to manage the pain. 

[Tinkerer]

Thanks for that info! I have been adding a 2nd lanyard to the tree before using a saw. I read Jeff Jepson fell by cutting his one and only line. I do have tree climbers companion and I'm reading it. But, I'm also watching lots of YouTube and reading Arborist Equipment.  Probably too much info from too many sources that's got my head spinning! I'll start with the double role technique you suggested. Keep it simple. The knots are something that I get nervous about-never made it past 2 years of cub scouts!! 

[mike_belben]

Well i had a cub scout guy chase me off some land as a kid as disclosed in another thread recently and figured i didnt need em anyway so youre head and shoulders ahead of me. 


I had a saw knick a standard prusik rope one time as it was winding down and i had a shot of joint pain from fatigue sorta let me just droop the saw a bit. I did have a backup but the message is the same. When youre hurting, wrap it up for the day.  Live to tell of it.   


If you do it for any length of time, especially self taught,  you will have some "shoulda died" stories. Its pretty high stakes. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Not a climber here but I have enjoyed reading along here and picking up a few things. But now you mentioned knots and I have 'some' experience here. True I have an advantage that as a Scout I did a lot of it and just for fun and to kill time we would do these short drills to see who could tie the 8 basic knots in the shortest time and we did it hundreds of times trying to knock a second or two off, then we would try them in the dark, or blindfolded, or tying behind our backs, you name it. It was just kids games then. But later in the fire service having my knots correct and fast, every time became somewhat important. When I did Swiftwater rescue training and served on an active team, it was a bit more than important, time and accuracy, the first time meant everything, and when I did my rope recue training, it kicked up another notch. It's true that I was quickly pegged as 'the knot fairy' in nearly every class I took because I could go head to head with every instructor on knot tying, but I knew it mattered.... a lot.
 If you want to get to a point where you are comfortable with your knots, it's pretty simple. Practice...ALL....THE....TIME. :D
 Cut yourself a 2-3' piece of rope and finish the ends, keep it around you most of the time. Any time your hands are not occupied, pick up the rope and run through your list of knots. Eventually you will get to the point where your rarely look at your hands, later you won't even think about what you are tying, your hands know and it will come out right. You learn how the knot FEELS in your hand without looking. Repetition is the only answer. Over and over in different conditions. You can also work on the short cuts once you have the mechanics of a particular knot worked out to a solid level. On a supple rope most knots should take in the range of 3 seconds to tie, and things like a prussik should be in the ten second range. You can do it, you just have to make it a habit, do it several times a day or more. I used to have a rope in my office at work and when I was thinking I would pick it up and tie various knots under my desk to keep my hands busy and fingers trained. Keep one by your TV chair or wherever. Just keep doing it and very soon it will be without thought. Also, a lot of these knots are variations on a theme, so a figure 8, figure 8 on a bight, double figure 8, a directional figure 8 (left hand, or right hand) are all the same basic knot with variations. A sheet bend is almost the same as a square knot with one small change, so learning a few basic knots gives you good leverage to learning the others.
 It's the same path to get to Carnegie Hall, practice, practice, practice.0

[mike_belben]

Much of your knots can be made on the ground, semi-permanent by incorporating carabiners into your most commonly used ropes and friction hitch gear so that you dont have to tie them in the tree.   This will save you a lot of fatigue by simply not having the fiddle in the air.  


Always leave yourself extra rope in a knot termination.  Enough to tie a figure 8 and electrical tape the free end to the working end like a double barrel shotgun so that it simply cannot slip undone. 

[mike_belben]

Keep it low and slow is the saying for noobs.  You gotta start somewhere, ya cant always have someone there to walk you through in person, so i know self taught is the only option at times.  But dont get yourself killed.  Dont stop being scared, dont get too daring or confident. Dont trust steep Y forks in pine with a crease from scaring, look for signs of water.  If ANY doubt, stay below the double leader.  


And never, never cause a hinge to break by wedging too hard against a lean to make it go where it has to.   A vertical top will corkscrew like a balerina spinning on her tippytoes, if the hinge breaks while youre roping against its lean.  If it walks off the pole into your flipline opening it will drop down between you and the tree,  and crush you to death.  Ive done this twice, one time only escaping by diving sideways and playing human tetherball at 5 stories.  

Live to evaluate your errors and warn others.

[BradMarks]

One other thing not mentioned and if possible: DON'T CLIMB ALONE. Never know. I was taught double "flip line" and a tie in rope (below your highest ascent) procedure in the Forest Service. We did a lot of cone collection/bagging in white pine. My instructor told us of the day he was limb walking (tied in of course) a sugar pine (long branches-cones on the end) on a hot day when the next thing he realized he was upside down dangling. He had passed out from exertion. Ya' never know.

[DDW_OR]

DON'T CLIMB ALONE. .......... was upside down dangling. He had passed out from exertion. Ya' never know.

I AGREE 100%

5 snowballs say DO IT

[Tinkerer]

Old Greenhorn and Mike,

Awesome, awesome info guys! I'm going to do that practice tying and go through the knot list of the tree climbers companion. Mike, It's a good thing you were able to unhook fast enough to avoid that treetop! I firmly believe that we all have an appointed time here on earth. If I go because of a tree mistake, that's when I am supposed to go-and not a moment sooner or later. That being said: "Don't tempt the Lord, your God"!! 

[Tinkerer]

Thank you Brad and DDW! 

I can easily see passing out from exertion. Almost happened when running a large chainsaw- got light headed. Put the saw down, lost consciousness, came to, went inside to the AC and pounded Gatorade and water. Rested 40 min and was good to go. It's amazing how that can come over you so suddenly. I always have to tell myself to pace things. Gone are the days of full throttle maniacally powering through whatever the challenge was. It would be nearly impossible to get out of a tree if that feeling came over me

[mike_belben]

There was no gettied untied, it was maybe 3 seconds from OMG to the top hitting my airborn leg as i just made it out from under it.  


I wanna be sure i have left you understanding this completely because i didnt get the mechanics until after it was over.  I was leaned back on my fliplines with gaffs plugged in deep. Tree is limbed and top has to fly in a very small hole.

   My buddy is pulling the line for all hes got and the wind that we planned on having for help had paused. Underestimated how hard it wanted to go west when we needed east.    So i notch and backcut.  Nothings happening.  im wedging, hes pulling, we cant get the top to start east.  I figure hinge is too thick, whittle it thinner.  Hes pulling, im pounding the snot out of it.  

Well the wedge went in alright, and lifted the whole top up.  The hinge tore and the top stayed vertical but started to overwhelm dave and go west.  Vertical was the best he could do.  So it starts to twirl on the stump counterclockwise.  

I look down just as the butt is a second or so from stepping into my open ropes and stopping sometime after it squeezes my intestines out.  I dive east, it wacks my leg and the fliplines cinch up and face plant me into the pole just dangling. 

Top landed on my garage and we called it quits.  

And yeah, dont climb alone.  Ive done it but its stupid.  You really need a groundie to atleast keep the limbs off your free end or DRT wont let you come down. 

[Tinkerer]

I get it now. That could also apply to  any section of the tree really. I guess the lessons are: keep the holding wood thick. Use massive pulling power (winch, vehicle) on something with lots of lean. You may have saved my life and/or roof!

How bad was the garage and did your wife give you grief?!

[mike_belben]

How bad was the garage and did your wife give you grief?!

I was a homeowning playboy at the time,  so there was a circuit breaker on female grief overload.  marriage corrodes the switch stuck in the ON position every time!  Like being tied to a falling tree. 

[mike_belben]

[...] That could also apply to any section of the tree really. I guess the lessons are: keep the holding wood thick. Use massive pulling power (winch, vehicle) on something with lots of lean.
[...]

Its a tough thing to generalize and not send people off half cocked with bad info.

Thick holding wood X brute force will almost always give you a barber chair in stringy species when felling at the stump.  

I have never heard of a barber chair when topping, probably because 50 feet of trunk will sway off plumb about 5 feet over its length and reduce the chairing forces.  
Now theres two huge issues that make thick hinge X brute force a deathwish.  


Number 1, you are creating a human slingshot and the human has a saw in one hand while being launched.  If you wanna be a chainsaw juggling rodeo clown, hang your spurs and find a circus right?  Theres gotta be more money in that than trees.


Now the other potential viral fail/5 oclock news story is that the tree gets pulled right over and youre tied to it.  Youd be slightly better off marrying a psycho.  


Well.. I dunno.  Arguable i guess.


So let me clarify.  Dont try to do in the air what might be reasonable to try on the ground.  When it goes wrong on the ground you just run for it, chances are you find an out for mistakes you make on the ground -i always have, praise the Lord.  


Not so on gaffs.   So lets look at leaning tops another way.  If there is any doubt, go higher and cut it in smaller, more manageable pieces or call in a bucket truck or crane who can handle it.

You have no strength to push sideways and no place to hide on gaffs. Heck you can hardly keep yourself from flopping over sideways just by the saws weight when you get to under 12" thick or so.  Youre standing on pins in your boots stabbed to a broom handle. The feet are too close for side to side stability.   I loop one landyard fully around the trunk 360 to help keep me from flopping to the heavy side.  Oh And never be facing the backcut squarely.. You wanna be on the side or 45ish to it.  



I learned to fall trees from the top down in cities all by myself (up there) where i could barely hear the guy somewhere below, no advice options.  When i got on the ground out in the woods, i barberchaired everything and had no idea why.  Keep that it mind.    Being at the top or bottom of a tree changes a lot of things in a lot of ways.  Actually i think trying to understand that problem was my first post here on FF.


It would be a rare partner id trust to sit in a truck and pull with a rope or something as i am cutting.  I have had a ground buddie load a winch little at a time by clear hand signals and it was successful.  Ive tied to my big forklift mast and kept adding tension that way by a stretched bull rope with even load. Also good.

 I had another buddy who when i needed him to keep the line taught, failed me.   the top sat back on my bar and pinched... Hes done there not paying attention to me, truck not running, .. I yell that im losing it.. He goes frantic,couldnt find key, no communication and finally rips it in gear, nearly launches me.   If youre gonna do it for real, for hire, you need radios and a real competent ground man.

Climbing was a fun and terrifying experience at the same time. Not the life for my spine or family situation anymore.

Be careful.

[chet]

I have never heard of a barber chair when topping, probably because 50 feet of trunk will sway off plumb about 5 feet over its length and reduce the chairing forces.  

It can happen. And in the case that I am aware of the climber did die. He was doing private work by himself on his day off. 

[lxskllr]

For rope on a budget, I got an amazing selection of ½" ends from cmcpro...

https://www.cmcpro.com/equipment/rope-sections-miscellaneous/

I got 4 ropes, with the shortest being 96', and the longest being 189'. My experience may not be indicative of what everyone gets, so YMMV. Even if you got lots of shorts, that's still a nice selection of lanyards for not a ton of money. To anyone reading, I wouldn't get the mixed assortment if your main interest is in climbing. This place services water rescue operations also, so a lot of the small stuff is likely to be polypro. That's good rope for the right application, but useless for climbing.

[Tinkerer]

Mike,
Glad you didn't have a wife to yell at you and tell you "you should have called someone! You don't know what you're doing!!"  

 I can see clearly now how the force with thick holding wood would go awry with disastrous consequences. I appreciate you relaying your experiences. Trying to take in all I can. So you learned trees ojt with common sense, books, and trial and error? I'd like to hear more about that. What were the circumstances? Do you mean city as in "the tree surrounded by a concrete sidewalk and 6' from the nearest row house"? How old were you? Why that path? 
Sorry for the many questions but you piqued my curiosity!

[chet]

I can see clearly now how the force with thick holding wood would go awry with disastrous consequences.

Not necessarily. There are times you may need a lot of force and a lot of holding wood. There are unlimited number of situations you are presented with, and an unlimited number of ways you could tackle each one.  The trick is to choose the safest and most efficient method to git er done, given the "tools" at your disposal. 
When you're learning start "small", and take the time to understand why EVERY move you make did not go exactly as you planned. It is a high stakes occupation, and one bad move could very well be your last.  

[mike_belben]

 "you should have called someone! You don't know what you're doing!!"  

'I will when i am done' is how i have always answered that one.   Let your detractors worry about their own skills sets. A man knows what he can and cant do.

[mike_belben]

[...]So you learned trees ojt with common sense, books, and trial and error? I'd like to hear more about that. What were the circumstances? Do you mean city as in "the tree surrounded by a concrete sidewalk and 6' from the nearest row house"? How old were you? Why that path?

Its complicated is the easy answer. The challenge here is can i pack the cliffnotes of that path into one post without going TLDR?


Went to work at 13,  USMC bootcamp 2 days out of highschool, then in one big  tornado theres a war, a crazy 1st marriage and divorce and a stoploss (when you cant get out of the military for an unknown period of time) that was expected to last 2 years minimum.  
Stopless ended in just 5 months while i was on 2 weeks leave.  I came back to work and found out in 2 more weeks id be getting discharged, completely unprepared.   So that landed me back where i never planned to go, dads house.. With no plans of staying long.. But then my grandparents needed me quite a bit and i accidentally re-rooted.


Im 23, just goofing off playing racecar while i figure life out and finally breathe, party, chase tail.  Went to school but didnt love it.  It was full of adult children.  dad wants me to rent a shop i dont want, one day comes home with 3 more bridgeports we absolutely cannot fit, so i have to rent a shop.  One that costs what a house does.  Now im working flat out to make the payments on the rent and credit cards to get tooled up for engines and cylinder heads.

Full throttle, customers backed up, finances terrible, no time or money left for tuition so quit school to get orders knocked out.  But the cashflow was never stable enough and i was one big shell game of rent, for lack of property.

Got into smith and wesson on 3rd shift @26 to ensure steady cashflow for the business expenses. worked every hour i could.  At one point hired a guy to work while i slept on the couch but he just read the paper.  
End up with a girl who had 2 boys. I needed a house with a big garage. @27 i bought it (at the peak of the runup!) with zero down on great credit. 100% financed.  Life was just go go go to pay the pipers. A slave to debt. 7days a week, day and night.


My house and the neighbors were built in '52 by same builder and had a sandy hill across rear boundary of both .1 acre lots, with a row of privacy pines that got to between 40 and maybe 60some foot.  The hill was washing out, roots were exposed and they were snapping off and dumping branches on the big rental complex right behind it, hard to tell which tree they came from until neighbor had a tree service come take his down.. Now any damage would be my liability. They offered to do mine for $7k the day they were there.  mine were all cased in a 10 foot alley with no bucket access for half of them in between structures. Most companies werent interested in looking.

There was no way i could even borrow it, i was maxed out.  I tried to get insurance company to do it but they refused.  And now wind was hitting trees that never felt wind alone because neighbors were gone.  So id make a CC payment and buy gaffs.  Make a CC payment and buy saddle.  Then ropes. Biners, etc. I already had saws from burning firewood.  


Just started doing it. What choice was there?  They were likely to crush the grandfathered 2 story garage i bought the place for, and would never be permitted to rebuild. I figured if i could jump backwards off a 50 ft repel tower with just a rope, i could climb a 50ft tree.

So i just started doing it and reading asking on AS.  I cought a lot 'you cant do what we do' flak from the holier than thou's over there.  Pith on them. I did it.  I dont need other peoples certificates and approvals.  It was all thumbs up when i was willing to die protecting some strangers way of life.. Why not give the same effort protecting my own?

I did maybe 40 or 50 more trees for friends, family or in trades since then.  Never for hire, insurance too high and my spine is too busted.

[mike_belben]

This one gives a scale.  That shed is right up against my fence.  Theres a grape arbor touching the tips and my friend is over that top cutting it up.  Not a big landing zone.





 This tree im in got topped and kept for a rigging spar.  Two others got swung into it and lowered into the one opening i had to work with.  It filled up often.   Despite a full time burn ban, i burned all these trees either in a barrel or in the stove little by little to clear the yard out.

 



And yes, i was so broke i started with a bicycle helmet.


This pogo log was the only damage i had other than the very last one that hit the garage and busted a little bit of plywood.  I shoulda jumped the fence and sent it into the neighbors yard but i didnt know the new tenants yet.  By the grace of a merciful God i also didnt know very well yet, i never had any booboos or damage at any other climbing job.  Quite a few involved close proximity to power lines and homes

[mike_belben]

Resist the urge to leave yourself all sorts of limb knobs to stand on. Yes, youre terrified and feel more secure with hand and footholds all over.. Ya like getting off the gaffs now and then to calm down.  But the knobs will just give you more work to flipline over and create things for your free end to get tangled in down below.  Trim your knobs off flush.  Tie into your center rings so you can sit into the saddle and dangle with your legs stretched out like a playground swing.   Drink water, catch your breath.  


Its fine to reach out and cut a limb a foot away so that you are less likely to follow thru and cut your lanyard or pinch a saw into the trunk,  which is more likely if you are working close to the trunk. But trim those little stubs off right after you send the limb.   Learn quickly how to drop a limb horizontal or vertical to suit your needs based on undercuts, overcuts and cut speed.

always remember and expect a limb to sweep your foot out from under you or grab your free end, dangling ropes etc etc.  Danger is everywhere at all times and close calls will bring them to light.  Letting limbs go will be a lot of the almost got hurt moments.

Keep your saw on a long landyard so that instant something happens you can 'throw it away' and have that hand back immediately to grab or block as needed.  The saw is EASILY the most dangerous thing in the air with you.. Always work from a position that is designed to safely throw the saw and when the fertilizer hits the ventilator just throw.  Dont think, throw.  Always get away from that saw. If it gets banged up so what.  You arent gonna like flipplining down with a 110 heart rate and a severed artery.

Soon as your done with a cut, chainbrake.  Immediately.  Dont move a muscle until that hand chainbrakes. Then move the saw back around your ropes.  Think of those ropes like glass spiderwebs that your life depends on because it does.  Never jeapardize them.


 I used a saw lanyard with two clasps.  One was short to keep it right on my hip as i was climbing with it off. The other was the throw it away length. If its still spinning down you want it GONE and flopping beneath you when SHTF. . not winding down into your ankle.  Never be the tough guy who is one handing a two hander saw up over his head.   Use the free end of a DRT setup to send the wrong saw down and have groundie send the right, warmed up, topped up saw to you.


On gaffs, it is very hard to stay in position on a narrow top that isnt perfectly straight.  Looks like cake on the ground.  You will look up and say no problem to many trees.  When you get up there and look down and you can barely start the saw without flopping over uncontrollably because of a tiny little lean and your heels clicked together, youll understand the problem. Expect a tired quivering core.  And be mindful not to gaff your own leg, its easy to do up high on skinny wood. 

[chet]

Before you take yer first step up da tree. Carefully study yer drop zone looking for ALL possible hazards and obstructions. Also study the tree, especially hardwoods, identifying tie in locations for yourself and  parts of the tree and crotch locations that are best suited to remove the worst or most difficult parts of your tree, or parts of surrounding trees that could also be removed. Most of all, make sure your groundman understands what is expected of him,  and is fully capable of doing it. A bad move on their part can put you in very serious jeopardy.
Once in da tree, resist the temptation to start wackin' the easy stuff. That easy portion may have contained the only safe crotch to get that really difficult part down.

[Andries]

There may be some other 'groundies' on here, but I'll go first.
BTW - IMO: Chet and Mike are giving years of experience here. Their comments are good excellent working information that'll keep you alive to thrive.
My son wanted to get into tree work when he was in his twenties. He started to ground crew for an arborist, and a few seasons later started climbing. I bought him his first saddle and rope. As they say, he took off running. My role after that was advice, counter-signing bank papers and doing the rigging. Fiddle blocks, prussics, portawraps and throw bags. There's a learning curve there and a hidden resource is the Sherrill Tree catalogue. Its a must have to learn the language (a 'nut case' is a helmet, not a jock strap) and the cartoons are a text book on how to make learning fun.



He's doing good.

[Andries]

A hidden hazard that isn't mentioned very often are storm trees.
They've been shaken so hard that they have separation between fibres that can't be seen.
Some of it comes home like this



Some of it comes home like this



The surprise is when you assume it's millable wood, and you get this



The remaining stem may look good enough to climb, but isn't



There's time when it should be cut and have it 'float' away.

[chet]

I second the storm trees, both during and after. The worse my nerves were tested was climbing during ice storms, very long hours coupled with extremely dangerous conditions and situations.
I think that is what attracts most folks to the profession, it can really test yer nerves, but it's a heck of a rush when ya pull it off. 

[mike_belben]

Yep.
 

Its the rodeo of tree stuff.  Can i do it without getting killed?  Lets go see! 


I couldnt tell a red oak from a blueberry bush but i was looking at them all thinking how can i tackle that tree?

[Tinkerer]

Mike, Chet, and Andries

What an impressive amount of knowledgeable experience to digest. I'm grateful for your time. You guys, in a sense, are saving lives- maybe mine! I haven't figured out how to use the sites quote system yet so please bear with me. All the responses will be lumped together. 

Thank you Mike for your military service first and foremost! Mike that info you put out was a true, in the trench, been there and had to figure it out expose'. You are a great story teller

I've taken down a neighbors 60' poplar by spurs and limbed an 80' , 28" dbh  cherry in my yard to the point of 40' off the ground (needs to come down, lots of canopy missing after storms, end of its lifecycle) so I can understand a lot of what was said. 

I'm going to add a second shorter tether to allow quicker saw access - saw is currently about 2' below my feet at full dangle. I'll practice the directional limb drop like you said.

 I can't believe that situation was your first tree cutting experience Mike! Hey, half measures avail us nothing!

 I love the response "I'll call someone when I'm done!" Had a crazy toxic situation with first wife too. Not walking with the Lord. Substance abuse. I was nuts! 

I do have a good groundie. We are friends and have done some tree work together. He helped me with the poplar removal. We're currently working together on a job where I'm milling and he's bucking and hauling. Someone else fell the trees though. Im starting to learn how to instruct him. At first it was "stay away when you hear the saw" The next I'll lay out a more detailed plan. We have whistles now if we need to get attention over a saw

I find a better, more thorough, and helpful on FF vs AS as well. Spending most of the time here.  I like the user interface on AS better though. Someone local on here even said he'd show me ropes! Good stuff 

"Throw the saw". Embarrassing to say I had to, but, I did. Not in the air but on the ground. Unstable making an open face notch (stupid) while kneeling on a 30" high stump. Lost balance and pushed the saw away as I went backwards. So I must have that instinct. 

I'll trust your knowledge and not leave stubs!

I was never a big chain brake user until going up a tree. You are SO right on making that a true habit. I started with chainsaw milling so the saw was strapped in metal guide and any bucking was on stable level ground- not so anymore. Now it's easy to see how life threatening a misfire could be. Made sure idle doesn't rotate chain too. 

Mike, you mentioned about core pain and exhaustion. I experienced that. The poplar just about killed me  with exhaustion. Well, I'm really glad to hear that's normal. Yeah, it was a different kind of wiped out! 

Andries- thanks for the Sherrill tree site. They are now on my phone and I'll request a paper catalog! So you worked with your son?! Are you two still pounding out trees together? I'd love to work with my kids. I'm happy for you. Sucks about the milling wood falling apart. Better that it turns to crap immediately than fractures and cracks halfway through drying. Ask me how I know! That's an awesome picture of your boy cutting the limb mid air. 

Chet- I'll study the tree for tie ins and dissection very carefully. Sounds like "plan your work, work your plan." Can't imagine working in an ice storm- slippery AND numb!! Wow


Chet and  Andries- I'll be more cautious when assessing and attempting any type of storm cleanup and look for cracks and hang-ups. I'm not afraid to say no or call someone with a crane and bucket truck. 

Thank you for all your input. Yes it is a rush then the plan works and heavy bulky tree sections move at your command or just using a power saw generally. Never been a big adrenaline junkie though. Yet, somehow, saws and trees have captivated me for the past 8 months! Even learning some of their Latin names. Blessings to all

-Mike

[mike_belben]

This was what i whipped up for inchworming up a single line.  Sit stand sit stand.  Just keep advancing the prusiks.  






Drove an hour to this job and forgot my helmet like an idiot.  Ended up having 2 kids with owner of that tree.  





And then naturally had to climb her parents trees too. 

[Tacotodd]

Of course you had to, that's the way it goes for us nice guys!

[mike_belben]

Well ..It took about 9 years of marriage and putting 1000 miles between us,  but i have finally settled into "i cant complain" 

:D