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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: ljohnsaw on October 02, 2021, 08:54:01 PM

Title: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: ljohnsaw on October 02, 2021, 08:54:01 PM
I was thinking about adding to this inspirational post Piney dual tooth setter (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=46818.msg673392#msg673392),but didn't want to derail it.  So starting my own.  I will add pictures later when I dig out the old stuff.  My trail started a few years ago when I dropped off a box of blades at my local WM Resharp.  It took them over 2 weeks and I was not impressed with either the sharpness nor the length of time they stayed sharp.

So, first stop was to make a sharpener.  I converted a free 10" radial arm saw.  I tilted it and profiled a " stone.  Worked pretty good for the first 50 or 60 blades sharpened.  Maybe it was 100.  Then I needed to set my blades after a tweaked a couple.  So I made a desetter and a setter.  The desetter works great, two rollers from a timing belt service.  The setter worked ok (made from a bit of wood and some metal), not great.  I made a kludgy dial indicator clamp (some vice grips) that I was never happy with.

Now my stone is misshapen so I'm not getting a good grind.  I bought some new dressing gear but haven't gotten around to fixing it yet (not sharpening at the moment).  The sharpening was taking four motions - Clamp blade, pull-push stone, un-clamp blade, advance blade - repeat.  I did that a lot! 210 times per blade.  I discovered I could eliminate two steps - clamp and un-clamp.  If I had the clamp just tight enough, I could advance the blade and it would still be tight enough to grind.  But I started dreaming of getting a BSM25 (the 12v version drag sharpener from WM) where I could start it and let it do its thing.  Had myself convinced that's what I need only to find 4 to 6 months wait!  Well that won't do.

So I took a detour and decided to redo a dual tooth setter.  I studied the WM videos and dug through my supplies (junk collection) and added a few more pieces from dumpster dives.  My old setter consisted of two motions - advance with left arm sliding lever to the right, and clamp - flipping a lever to the back on a toggle clamp - to set the teeth - and then pull forward.  Kind of like patting the top of your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time.  The WM setter is just a single lever push-pull.  So that was my goal.

I wasn't in a hurry so I set little goals and completed the setter in about 5 work sessions.  The worst part was dealing with some pre-threaded parts that were metric and, of course, breaking a couple taps off in some stainless steel plate (" thick).  The setting bolts are fine thread (metric) so I can easily get the right set.  The little blocks these were mounted in have tiny set screws to add a little friction to keep them from moving.  These were already made up from what I took apart.  I took an aluminum disk and mounted it so it wobbled in my lathe.  I faced it off so I had a beveled, circular ramp for the clamping mechanism.  That actually didn't work as intended  It was too gradual .  I needed to release the full clamping before advancing the blade or the teeth would hit the setting bolts.  A little mod there.  I captured some springs and rods between the plates to force them apart when the clamp was released.  Those work good but the blade was free to flop around and the teeth would sometimes get stuck on the set bolts.  Added a couple more spring plungers to keep the blade away from the set bolts when the jaws are open.

What I thought would be the hardest - blade advance - actually worked out really well and surprisingly easy - I used an old ball bearing slide from a keyboard drawer.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_Setter_1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633219152)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_Setter_2.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633219152)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_Setter_3.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633219159)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_Setter_4.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633219169)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_Setter_5.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633219179)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_Setter_6.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633219176)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_Setter_8.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633219183)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_Setter_9.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633219217)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_Setter_9b.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633219225)
 
New gauge holder

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/30640/20211002_gauge_1.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1633222965)
 

So now it is time to make a drag sharpener.  I have a spare wheelchair motor for running the cam.  I do have a semi-working 10" chop saw I could put a stone of some sort on.  The base of the chop saw would be the build platform for the sharpener.  What I need is a GOOD stone for sharpening.  I was thinking of ordering a 4 cam, stone/blade and the shaper block from WM (assuming it doesn't take 4 months!).  But I'm wondering if there are some better stone/blades out there.  Like the pink ones used on chain saws - are they long lasting?
Title: Re: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: barbender on October 02, 2021, 09:03:59 PM
It looks great- does it work?😊 Don't get to worked up about a clamp on set guage. It would be nice when you are doing initial set ups, but other than that I like to get adjusted and set, and not look back😊 I have a Suffolk's setter, I just check my set with calipers. Get them the same side to side, and then I just set. As long as my blade widths are all the same (I try to set all the blades from the same sharpening session) and nothing comes out of adjustment, I get nice consistent results with a great sawn finish.
Title: Re: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: ljohnsaw on October 02, 2021, 09:34:59 PM
I have a short 24" section of a broken blade and it works quickly and easily on that.  I set the plunger on the dial indicator even with the anvil and "zero" the dial by rotating.  Then I get a direct read of the offset on the tips.  Yes, the set gauge is strictly to get the blade set balanced on both sides.

Do you sharpen then set or set then sharpen? - that's the big question/debate!
Title: Re: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: barbender on October 03, 2021, 12:04:22 AM
I do both, depending on my mood😁 I only set after 3 sharpenings. If I'm running .055" blades, they usually break by the third sharpening and save me the trouble of setting the thick things. In fact, I don't believe I've set one yet😁
Title: Re: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: tacks Y on October 03, 2021, 08:22:17 AM
Ljohnsaw, Nice job on the setter.
Title: Re: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: ljohnsaw on October 03, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Thanks all - but need some answers.

Looking on Amazon at grind stones.  There are gray (Aluminum Oxide), Green (Silicon Carbide) and Pink (Corundum). 

One review on the green stone is that it is ONLY for carbide blades, not regular steel - is that true?

Which would be best for a band saw drag-type blade sharpener?  By best, I'm talking about long lasting (i.e. hard - no noticeable wear on, say, 10 blades?), able to be shaped (rounded over a little), gives a smooth grind (150 grit?) and can run dry.  WM does not state what their 5" wheels are made of, although they are black so I'm guessing Aluminum Oxide.

I don't *think* I should have to dress the stone for every blade though I will probably need to adjust the stone drop to get the gullets as I go through the day sharpening.
Title: Re: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: barbender on October 03, 2021, 08:40:50 PM
I have a ruby stone on my Cook's right now, it seems to do well. They're easy to shape.
Title: Re: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: ljohnsaw on October 03, 2021, 08:44:52 PM
Is the ruby stone the same as the pink (Corundum) or is this a 4th type?
Title: Re: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: Crusarius on October 03, 2021, 08:52:39 PM
That looks pretty sweet. I still like the idea of a roller style desetter with a cam roller style setter. then you just place the blade in and pull it around the loop. of setup an auto feed which could be ass imple as an arm that pushes it 2-4" at a time. would take no time at all to set a full blade. Only issue is needing different cams for different angles.
Title: Re: Sharpening and Setting from scratch
Post by: barbender on October 03, 2021, 09:54:36 PM
I think it is the same. I've used the blue as well, I don't know I can tell any difference in them. I never set up and do to much sharpening and setting at once, so I am not a very good judge of fine performance details between different stones and such at this point.