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Author Topic: Caves  (Read 1926 times)

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Online mike_belben

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Re: Caves
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2021, 04:40:24 AM »
Im not into caves at all but there are a lot around me in middle tennessee.  I just noticed a small entrance to one at bee rock lookout in monterey.  Its a vertical cliff point made by water drainage eroding the sandstone on two sides, into a deep valley.  The point of the lookout is breaking off and sliding forward.  a seam has formed, maybe 2 feet wide and 6 feet deep?    In this seam, runoff water has tunnelled a drainage hole straight down in.  Its the size of a crawlspace door that i want no part of!   




I suspect theres probably quite a few more unknown ones down along the western bank of the cumberland plateau ridge, around ravenscroft and bonair, maybe clifty. Theres coal seams for sure. I guess the sandstone is 100 to 200ft thick along the high rim that all drains into calfkiller river.  Theres trails at coalbank rd that run along the bluffs but i dont know them well.  

Isaiah 63:10

Online mike_belben

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Re: Caves
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2021, 04:50:47 AM »
Within a mile or two if that in the same basin as bee rock is verble hollow falls.  A waterfall that is basically a broken face of cave drainage i guess.  Get with thisguy sometime if you dont already know him. 


Chuck Sutherland: Verble Hollow
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Will.K

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Re: Caves
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2021, 05:35:34 AM »
I know Chuck, and you're right that there are a lot of caves in the west rim of the Cumberland. Surely more unreported ones to be found, even though TN is up to about 10,000 documented caves. Sometimes the entrances are in sandstone, but more typically limestone. Nearly all significant cave passages occur in limestone/dolomite/marble or other carbonates. Sandstone is very resistant to acidic dissolution by groundwater. In TN, the most common cave rocks start near the water table and extend upward for a couple of hundred feet to a layer of sandstone, then another significant layer of limestone above that. Many caves in the upper limestone die when they hit the sandstone, but if they break through huge caves often result. Check out photos of Rumbling Falls cave in Van Buren county as an example.

This describes the biggest, most spectacular geologic setting in TN, the same sandwich of rock extending into AL, GA. But there are other pockets of localized karst that form under completely different conditions.

Offline uplander

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Re: Caves
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2021, 02:57:37 PM »
   Like Cedarman i have been a caver my whole adult life and also live in southern indiana. I have been fortunate enough to have gone caving many places in the world and all over the u.s.
One of the most rewarding discoveries of my lifetime was being the first one down 6000 feet of virgin kentucky borehole. An incredible experience.

I have 7 trips below 1000 meters in mexico.

My wife and i were married in a kentucky cave 31 years ago.

I guess i have pursued it at about the highest level you can.
Woodmizer lt40G28.  A kubota L4600 with loader and forks.
Various Stihl saws and not enough time to use them!
 Finished my house finally. Completely sawn out on by band mill. It took me 7 years but was worth it. Hardest thing I have ever done.

Offline Will.K

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Re: Caves
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2021, 09:52:47 PM »
  Like Cedarman i have been a caver my whole adult life and also live in southern indiana. I have been fortunate enough to have gone caving many places in the world and all over the u.s.
One of the most rewarding discoveries of my lifetime was being the first one down 6000 feet of virgin kentucky borehole. An incredible experience.

I have 7 trips below 1000 meters in mexico.

My wife and i were married in a kentucky cave 31 years ago.

I guess i have pursued it at about the highest level you can.
I probably know of you too then. I have only met a handful of cavers, but have read everything I can reach and am familiar with lots people and their work.
Was that 6000' on a crf project?

Offline uplander

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Re: Caves
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2021, 09:00:25 AM »
No, i quit CRF caving 30 years ago. I didnt care for how regimented it was and the culture of it all.

The long borehole discovery occured just outside of the park very near
Park City.

I dont cave much anymore but all my close friends are cavers.
Woodmizer lt40G28.  A kubota L4600 with loader and forks.
Various Stihl saws and not enough time to use them!
 Finished my house finally. Completely sawn out on by band mill. It took me 7 years but was worth it. Hardest thing I have ever done.

Offline Will.K

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Re: Caves
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2021, 11:17:54 AM »
I was on a trip just outside the park last weekend. I too am not very interested in regimented caving, but have hung around on the edges of such projects and managed to sneak in some nice trips without getting too involved. I'm mostly solo or with my brother.

You make the third person I know of being married in a cave, and I recall a great photo of the groom rappelling down to the altar through the Grapevine Pit entrance of the commercial cave... forgetting the name, in Lewisburg WV.

Offline uplander

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Re: Caves
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2021, 04:41:33 PM »
I know Chuck, and you're right that there are a lot of caves in the west rim of the Cumberland. Surely more unreported ones to be found, even though TN is up to about 10,000 documented caves. Sometimes the entrances are in sandstone, but more typically limestone. Nearly all significant cave passages occur in limestone/dolomite/marble or other carbonates. Sandstone is very resistant to acidic dissolution by groundwater. In TN, the most common cave rocks start near the water table and extend upward for a couple of hundred feet to a layer of sandstone, then another significant layer of limestone above that. Many caves in the upper limestone die when they hit the sandstone, but if they break through huge caves often result. Check out photos of Rumbling Falls cave in Van Buren county as an example.

This describes the biggest, most spectacular geologic setting in TN, the same sandwich of rock extending into AL, GA. But there are other pockets of localized karst that form under completely different conditions.
Ahh, Rumbling falls. Not often big cave is found by going up dip!
Marion told me when he found it he couldnt beleive it!
I have some great stories about him.
Woodmizer lt40G28.  A kubota L4600 with loader and forks.
Various Stihl saws and not enough time to use them!
 Finished my house finally. Completely sawn out on by band mill. It took me 7 years but was worth it. Hardest thing I have ever done.

Offline Will.K

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Re: Caves
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2021, 09:02:06 PM »
Marion told me when he found it he couldnt beleive it!
I have some great stories about him.
I imagine so. We exchange letters, but I've only met him in person once, when we scrounged around in some nerd holes a mile or so from Rumbling Falls. Stories of survey in there with 300' shots... crazy stuff. I enjoyed his stories of prusiking out of Golondrinas on knots.

Offline uplander

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Re: Caves
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2021, 09:29:31 PM »
Picture a room at least ten times the size of the bottom of rumbling falls. Maybe even twenty. I think Marion was 50 at the time. I was 36 and had a young friend with me 21. Quite capable on rope but his first time at depth. About 600 meters or so, chiapas mexico.

We had split from the 2 other members of the trip and none of us three had ever been in the cave before. We came back into this gigantic room. 300 foot cielings. Large breakdown everywhere, we had boogied through it on the way in. We looked at it and none of us could remember where we came in at.

Marion sat down on a rock, looked at us and said " I'm going to let you young guys figure this out".
Woodmizer lt40G28.  A kubota L4600 with loader and forks.
Various Stihl saws and not enough time to use them!
 Finished my house finally. Completely sawn out on by band mill. It took me 7 years but was worth it. Hardest thing I have ever done.

Online mike_belben

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Re: Caves
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2021, 10:30:54 AM »
Im about 40 miles from rumbling falls and closer to bee rock.  There is a small cave hole at the top from drainage water that i suspect is unexplored and potentially 200ft or more deep just based on the elevation.  The tip of bee rock point is sliding off the plateau and the cave is in the crease where all that drainage water has been boring through the sandstone.

Chuck Sutherland: 2018.01
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Will.K

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Re: Caves
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2021, 01:30:09 PM »
Im about 40 miles from rumbling falls and closer to bee rock.  There is a small cave hole at the top from drainage water that i suspect is unexplored and potentially 200ft or more deep just based on the elevation.  The tip of bee rock point is sliding off the plateau and the cave is in the crease where all that drainage water has been boring through the sandstone.

Chuck Sutherland: 2018.01
If you send me the coordinates of the hole, (privately, not in this thread) I can tell you  if it appears in the Tennessee Cave Survey files. If it does not, I would be glad to come down and explore and document it. You might (might, sometimes things do slip through) be underestimating the thoroughness of TN cavers. It ain't easy to find a new hole in your neck of the woods, some combination of heavy hiking, digging, and serendipity is usually required. 

Online mike_belben

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Re: Caves
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2021, 04:06:45 PM »
youre probably right.  and i hadnt realized i already mentioned this cave in january.  just saw that now. coordinates sent. lemme know what you find out please 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline uplander

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Re: Caves
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2021, 04:44:21 PM »
Im about 40 miles from rumbling falls and closer to bee rock.  There is a small cave hole at the top from drainage water that i suspect is unexplored and potentially 200ft or more deep just based on the elevation.  The tip of bee rock point is sliding off the plateau and the cave is in the crease where all that drainage water has been boring through the sandstone.

Chuck Sutherland: 2018.01
Well i had a reply but it dissapeared when i tried to post it.
Will rewrite when i have the time.
Woodmizer lt40G28.  A kubota L4600 with loader and forks.
Various Stihl saws and not enough time to use them!
 Finished my house finally. Completely sawn out on by band mill. It took me 7 years but was worth it. Hardest thing I have ever done.

Online mike_belben

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Re: Caves
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2021, 08:59:06 PM »
make sure youre logged in forever and if you write something long, copy before you click off the tab/page.  I lose my spaces or the entire post if i take too long.
Isaiah 63:10


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