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Deer Salt

Started by mike_belben, May 03, 2021, 12:42:26 PM

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mike_belben

Just a friendly reminder that now is the time when deer need salt supplements the most. When growing racks or feeding fawns etc.  Both calcium chloride and sodium chloride in granulated form.  By far cheaper at your local co-op vs walmart.  $8 for a 50lb sack here for example. 

They also need phosphorus and other trace elements.  I know its natural to tink ofnm this stuff in fall but youll be growing better deer to get that food plot and salt sack out now.   Salt leaches bad in sand or runs off on hills.  You want flat ground and clay soil to park it on ideally. 

Kent Kammermeyer has some good articles summarizing the vast studies done on deer and salt if you care to look into it. 
Praise The Lord

Southside

I would think a true trace mineral block would be a healthier option overall.  Might not grow the monster rack.  
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mike_belben

Im not any sort of authority on it... Maybe so.  The guy i referenced claims the studies have shown that the levels of sodium chloride and calcium chloride required by deer is not achievable in block form but is in granular form by the same manufacturers, according to those manufacturers.  

Now i have no idea why that is if it is at all.  Fwiw.. I agree with him out of unqualified common sense that salt is just one small part of total health.  Variety food plots, mast and forage being the rest of it i suppose.  

Praise The Lord

Silverfoxfintry

We farm a lot of Sheep around my area. It is common to see Roe Deer at the Mineral blocks the Shepherds put out for the Sheep.
On a slightly different topic.
We have had a long, cold spell lasting almost 3months. The Deer , both Roe and Red have had a very lean time. I Shot a nice Roe buck on Saturday. Not an ounce of fat round the Kidneys.
Usually by now they are starting to lay down reserves for the Rut in late July.

Happy Hunting.
Silverfox.

Southside

Selenium is an important mineral for cattle and equine that is often deficient in the soil resulting in low uptake. 

I would think the same rules apply to deer.

They will dig up quite a hole in a pasture where we have had a block feeder. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

TroyC

I have one of those brown mineral blocks at my feeder. Been watching the deer lick on it lately. There are 5 that come to the feeder daily, one is obviously a very pregnant doe. Sometimes, two or three will be licking on the block at the same time. There is a little button buck, he really enjoys the block when it is wet.

KEC

In New York it is illegal to put out salt for deer. I personally think we should be able to. 

Tacotodd

Yes, you should be able to. After all, it's something that they need. If nothing else then for good health for the future generations. I'm sorry but NY has some messed up laws.
Trying harder everyday.

Tacotodd

I'm also thinking about that chronic wasting disease. If it's spread by the saliva then a block would be a bad idea, but the loose minerals would be much more unlikely to have that happen. Just for the simple fact that the saliva will have much more time to "evaporate" or whatever goes on to make it less likely to effectively transmit to another animal.

I also know that from first hand experience that all sorts of animals will tear up the ground for commercial loose products like Deer Cane. It's a slow way for us to dig but great for us lazy folks 🤫
Trying harder everyday.

Walnut Beast

Good stuff and smells good. Used it for years. TSC carries it.

 

 

Skip

I have a mineral block and a salt block fairly close to each other , the deer will step over the salt to get to the mineral block and dig quite a hole to get to the good stuff when its dissolved . I always dig a small crater when setting them .

WV Sawmiller

   Everybody else is trying to raise big deer with huge racks. As I get older I have working on a selective deer breeding program on my property geared more to making the deer easier to hunt. If a group of deer come out while I am hunting I note which one is the most alert and careful and shoot that one first. My goal is to raise a deer herd with poor hearing, cataracts and susceptible to head colds. I shot a spike a few years ago who walked up within 6' of me and waited while I unzipped my bow case, got out my bow, arrow and release and shot him about 20' away. I honestly checked him closely to be sure he did not have a collar or ear tags as I did not want to shoot anyone's pet. He was just stupid. I regret shooting him to this day. He had the genes I am looking for. :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

KEC

I am fairly sure that New York origionally passed the law against putting salt out for deer because people would use it to attract deer during the season to shoot them. If everyone put salt out, then no one would have an unfair advantage. And deer most want the salt in the spring and summer. The D.E.C. now makes the case for not having deer swapping spit at a salt lick, which may have merit. The crazy thing is that it is legal to sell salt containing products labeled for deer and the stores are selling lots of it. You just can't legally put it out for the deer. On a side note, a few years ago, on a nature show on TV they showed film footage of elephants in Africa going into caves to get salt. They used their tusks to break off chunks of salt to eat. I'm thinking that as soon as they left the cave they probably made a beeline for the nearest waterhole. WV, did You know that ?

mike_belben

Quote from: Skip on May 04, 2021, 09:04:43 AM
I have a mineral block and a salt block fairly close to each other , the deer will step over the salt to get to the mineral block and dig quite a hole to get to the good stuff when its dissolved . I always dig a small crater when setting them .
Just something to consider, if any block uses mollasses as a binder, deer are gonna be on it like dorito dust.  
Apparently that is a frequent cause of consumption to the point of toxicity with the trace elements.   
Praise The Lord

Skip

All natural all the time .

mike_belben

Does that make the does feel like a natural woman?   ;D
Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

Quote from: Skip on May 04, 2021, 09:04:43 AM
I have a mineral block and a salt block fairly close to each other , the deer will step over the salt to get to the mineral block and dig quite a hole to get to the good stuff when its dissolved . I always dig a small crater when setting them .
That's good on digging a crater. When you have a crater the water washes and leaches the minerals in the soil and they will always hit that spot

mike_belben

Quote from: Southside on May 03, 2021, 06:21:29 PM
Selenium is an important mineral for cattle and equine that is often deficient in the soil resulting in low uptake.

I would think the same rules apply to deer.


Ive put quite a bit of time reading into cervid mineral needs lately from university sources and selenium is necessary but toxicity is not far above minimum requirements for deer.. Its a narrow window.  

Deer specific blends are around 10ppm or less while weened cattle mineral at the co-op are all 30ppm selenium and goat blend was 80 which would probably harm deer.


Here is a geuine deer blend from a major manufacturer that i will get a price on today.



The hunting supplement industry buys from industrial producers, puts it in the fancy small bag or bucket with great marketing claims and charges 4- 500% more every fall.  Great business. Just like food plot seed.  $10 for a pound when you can get a 50lb sack of each component for $8bucks and blend your own to better suit your conditions.


I got 100lbs of trace mineral salt and 18.5 dicalcium carbonate for under $30 yesterday.  
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Single 50lb bag of kaufmanns is $25.80 retail at their site, for perspective. 
Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

Quote from: mike_belben on May 06, 2021, 06:37:54 AM
Quote from: Southside on May 03, 2021, 06:21:29 PM
Selenium is an important mineral for cattle and equine that is often deficient in the soil resulting in low uptake.

I would think the same rules apply to deer.


Ive put quite a bit of time reading into cervid mineral needs lately from university sources and selenium is necessary but toxicity is not far above minimum requirements for deer.. Its a narrow window.  

Deer specific blends are around 10ppm or less while weened cattle mineral at the co-op are all 30ppm selenium and goat blend was 80 which would probably harm deer.


Here is a geuine deer blend from a major manufacturer that i will get a price on today.



The hunting supplement industry buys from industrial producers, puts it in the fancy small bag or bucket with great marketing claims and charges 4- 500% more every fall.  Great business. Just like food plot seed.  $10 for a pound when you can get a 50lb sack of each component for $8bucks and blend your own to better suit your conditions.


I got 100lbs of trace mineral salt and 18.5 dicalcium carbonate for under $30 yesterday.  
Show me some pictures of the monsters your producing

SwampDonkey

A lot of deer (and moose) know where to find it some way in nature.

Rocky Brook mineral springs.



Photo taken by Don Dickey, 1920. Moose and deer share the lick. Some of Don's photos show more moose than deer at times at the lick. Don had a blind set up on the bank of the brook. The blind was moved back away from the lick as the animals eroded the banks by pawing. In 1922 the blind was removed. US congressman George Shiras III was the first to photograph wildlife here in 1905. ["Beyond the Trodden Path", Gerry Parker]
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Walnut Beast

That's pretty cool 👍

WV Sawmiller

   I have seen mineral licks on the Napo River, a main tributary of the Amazon River in Ecuador, where the Peccaries would come for the minerals. We spotted Jaguar tracks in the clay at the site. I watched elephants and a bunch of different African antelope in the Central African Republic visiting some mineral streams where they watered, cavorted and the elephants would blow bubbles in the mud and make big pools. Nearby were some chalky mineral deposits the elephants had dug caves many feet deep getting the minerals. I understand they'd dig so deep sometimes they would have cave ins when the whole top/ceiling area would collapse. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

mike_belben

Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 06, 2021, 03:56:50 PM
Show me some pictures of the monsters your producing
I sure hope to some day, im just getting started.  
Heres a neighbors 2 rows of bucks taken from the same area back in the 90s but ive not seen anything impressive.. I have seen a few heavy dew claw tracks on my place and heard lots of tall tales but nothing on camera or gambrel.






Seems the herd has suffered from a long spell of poaching and non management.  Im the only guy i have ever heard of in this area trying to grow better timber or deer.  Everyone else just wants an easy harvest.  Doe pee, corn or co-cane is about all anyone will invest.  People with land, money and brains invest in beef, not deer. 



Boy and i found a mega extrance into the 200acre pasture on the safer side where no one has set up because its difficult to get there.  I put about 30lbs of mineral tilled into a clay flat in front of a camera today for inventory.
When they leave the field at daylight it should be past the lick, down the hollar past the small food plot i put in and then down into a creek bottom for the day.  2000ft pasture elevation and 1800 ft in the creek bottoms.. Pretty steep.  Have a few trees picked out that hopefully provide a broadside parade.
Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

Very nice. Pretty awesome what your doing. What your doing will make a big difference and payoff 👍👍👍. Also trying to keep a eye on everything 

mike_belben

Learning as we go.  Mostly trying to make sure boy has some quality memories of 'us time' before its over.












Its a half mile of sidehilling so hes gotta switch sides to leave!






Trail gets so tight that nothing can stick out the side.  That 2stroke tiller is another gem someone couldnt be bothered to put a fuel line on.  No idea where i got it but i know it was free and ill never part with it.



First time ive gotten to check the sun quantity in this foodplot site.. Looks like we're gonna be good thanks to a microburst or wind storm that broke off 3 mature tree tops recently.



Praise The Lord

Skip

I do not do it for the trophys  just trying to help em out a bit , can't eat the rack any way. Know some guys that put in some serious plots . Figure every little bit helps .

mike_belben

me either.  with all the worldwide craziness and brand new "survivalists" flooding out into the rural areas.. rising food costs.. certainty of a future economic contraction.  there could soon be a legion of new hunters pouring into my neck of the woods every fall.  i guess i just want to secure the situation in advance and keep my stew full of chunky meat. 


i have decided i will not give any supplement with any selenium in it at all after reading this case study of rapid herd poisoning in a canadian veterinary journal. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003580/#b2-cvj_01_70

its and autopsy report written in doctorese.  all i can understand is that selenium eats deer alive from the inside rapidly and painfully.. that the animal suffers and dies.  these experts (who i trust) here say that a normal feed ration is .04 to 1 ppm ... not 10, 30 or 80ppm.  why risk harming the herd youre working to grow?   
Praise The Lord

Jeff

My brother in law had  small deer mineral business back before it became a thing. Trapper Pete's Grow em big.  He never took it to the level he should have. The packaging thing for retail ticked him off and he quit. We use to deliver it in plastic milk jugs. I still have about a 100lbs mixed up.  I inherited the recipe and the cement mixer to mix it in.  


The Forestry Forum members did a wonderful thing for my best friend when he was dieing with all the cards from all over.  I know, he would not mind that I know give you that recipe he created.

@mike_belben 



 
It needs some sort of anti predator ingredient in it for the cabin.:)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

mike_belben

wow thats a recipe.  i have laid out a mix of the the first 2 and think i am happy with helping them knock off the macros. 

how did your BIL come up with it?  what was his background?  
Praise The Lord

KEC

On a similar subject, I put out crushed eggshells for the birds. I put them on my gravel driveway and sometimes at places I go that I think birds might benefit. Also, I bought some commercial pigeon grit; Pricey stuff. Helps them grind seeds in their gizzard and to make eggshells. With all the things some people do, whittingly or un-whittingly,  that negatively affect wildlife it seems only right to help them here and there.

mike_belben

eggshells also make a good organic garden calcium too.  theyve gotta dry first and then you can run them through a blender or "mill" them between two chunks of cinder block. 

i put them in my compost pile. 
Praise The Lord

Jeff

Pete was a life long woodsman and a student of all things wild. He was vietnam vet, a stone mason,, a cop and retired from being animal control officer for 25 years. He dealt with vets and farmers and was good friends with the incredible Dr. Pohl who attended his funeral. 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Magicman

With the Chronic Wasting threat, I am very hesitant to provide anything that would tend to congregate deer.
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mike_belben

that is a big thing to consider lynn.  deer covid would really bring me down. 


thanks for sharing jeff.. i can imagine that was something he kept quite secret. 
Praise The Lord

Jeff

I put it on stumps at the cabin. It gets rid of them over time. :)  Deer are in constant nose to nose activity naturally. Don't people watch them?. LETS PUT A MANMANDATED MASK ON EM! THAT'LL WORK!

I thought I had a pic of one of the current mineral sites in the corner of the cabin yard but cant find it yet. May have to take another.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

mike_belben

i stumbled onto this gem recently.  penn state deer forest blog.  this one on mountain laurel is a revelation to me.  

https://www.deer.psu.edu/mountain-laurel-the-living-legacy/



winter of 16/17 i started my hikes all over the deer woods i abut, and remember sending my brother a picture of stripped mountain laurel clear to the hind leg browse line, saying look for this stuff, it draws deer.  

i did not know that the glycosides in them are toxic and laurel browse is indication the herd is starving.  great news is i have not ever seen that again so it signals an improved condition (even if thats just from herd reduction.. its still better for the living.)  


well.. turns out that deer browsing reduces competition and lets mountain laurel take over. looking back, every time i have discovered a buck bed its been in or right next to a mountain laurel thicket. red cedar sapplings and mountain laurel trunks are where i find the most rubs.  so i whip up the satellite view and sure enough, all the evergreen laurel thickets are visible from satellite without foliage.   The mountain laurel density is highest in all the circumstances that a buck favors. so now ive got an aerial buck mapping tool for any nearby woods. 
Praise The Lord

SwampDonkey

I've seen that stuff so thick in the Miramachi woods, the caribou had made deep trails (think snow) through the stuff over 100 years ago and the deer still used those trails decades after. Used to have to walk through that to get to some good dead water fishing for brook trout. It was worth it in those days, because the water just boiled with trout. After awhile your fly hook was just bare. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

mike_belben

Well that got pretty immediate results.  This porker likes the salt and looks like shes certainly eating for two.. Or three! 




















Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

What are you feeding them now Mike. The deer are usually lean now 😂

Ron Scott

Jeff, 
Pete kept me supplied with his "Grow em Big" product. Had good results with it. He provided me with milk jugs of it. Believe that there are still some large racks running around here from it. Also enjoyed his wines. ;)
~Ron

mike_belben

Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 09, 2021, 11:02:50 PM
What are you feeding them now Mike. The deer are usually lean now 😂
Nothing.. Im lucky we can feed ourselves!







Shes living in woods that are between two farms.  Well three actually but this just shows the two.   One is just tall hay, the other may have a crop out, i should go meet them.  

Anyway this aerial shows a dark green band of dominant mountain laurel in the understory coating a steep south facing hillside and hollar that is one of the last spots i havent explored because its just a nightmare of tangles in the creekbottom.  



My theory is that band gives away the rugged lane reclusive deer are using between the two farms.  I saw a big buck tending a gaggle of does i couldnt see in a dip out in the pasture at sunset from afar one night and i thought it was a big shrub until i threw a coyote howl and the whole gang bolted right for that trail that im now working, when they had any direction to choose from and not one deviated.

  Colar'd bucks have shown that during heavy hunting pressure they just shrink back harder to core areas until dark.  Well that ridge peninsula not having much mountain laurel on the north side except at the east facing point, tells a story.  During the winter day theyre sitting tight on southern exposed slopes in any warmth they can get, rifle cracks all day in every direction, chewing anything that aint laurel.   

This parcel is hunted extensively but no one is set up anywhere near that laurel ridge, its very hard access.  theyre all on the eastern side (not shown) because of any easy skidder road.  No laurel there at all but many deer are taken when they go foraging an oak rim.



Now look at how dense and dark the laurel is on all banks and all directions of creek bottoms around another farm where hunting has never been open to more than a few people and atleast crop stubble is always around.  This is extensive, and obviously older than the above patch.  The above is chest high.  I expect the below to be overhead by a few feet based on aerials of known laurel patches.



 I got a dozen vids of what i think are the same doe over 2 nights at many different times.. Shes tearing that salt up, but only nocturnal.  No other deer.  Im eager to see a buck that well fed.
Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

Pretty neat area 👍

dogone

   Years ago raised white tailed deer. I wasn't very successful as they seemed intent on committing suicide.

    I bought every horn growing potion made. It was generally ignored. Sat in the tubs for years with no more than a lick.
   
     But I learned one important fact from a knowledgeable vet. All/most deer have worms. Tame and wild. One type of preventative is called safe-guard.Also used for cattle. It is granular and sprinkled on the feed. It will give you healthier deer. Check with a vet.

Jeff

Here is a current mineral stump first picture was at about a year, this one is I think the 4 year. Keep in mind we have a very low deer population, but there are fresh tracks to it.



 

 

 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

thecfarm

I need to get another salt block. I have bought the white ones. But those can be seen a mile off.  ;D  I buy the TM ones now. They are like a rust color so they don't stick out as bad. I have put the block on a stump too. All animals like salt. We like it too!!! Around the stump was barren.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Texas Ranger

You leave it on the ground, and in a year or two there will be a hole where they have worked over the residuals.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Walnut Beast

Trophy rocks as they are called are excellent. They are natural and are only mined in one place. I think Utah 🤷‍♂️

mike_belben

Last year i planted 6 tiny test patches of imperial bowstand the size of a matress or less on my back woodlot in varying conditions.  Im very pleased to say that its lusher than any hayfield around and there are many to choose from. 

 No lime or fertilizer, just planted into pushed up hills of topsoil i bladed off into small piles when roadbuilding.  Let the pile decompose a while then hoe it out and stamp some seed into it. Came up as fall plots but the perennial action is even better. 










The yellow flowers chest high behind the soda can are turnips going to seed.  Theres crimson clover, chicory, wheat, oats and a few grasses.  I havent done anything to it since planting late last summer.  It stalled out but stayed green over winter then came roaring back in late march.  






Anyways i put some of that mineral salt mix down in a small puddle spot near one of the bigger patches where a few does are known to visit overnight and worked it into the clay.  theyre already digging the top layer off.  
Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

Looking pretty good Mike 👍. Keep the pictures and updates coming 

Walnut Beast

Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 12, 2021, 12:00:24 AM
Trophy rocks as they are called are excellent. They are natural and are only mined in one place. I think Utah 🤷‍♂️
You can buy these at TSC and other places. Here is a little interesting information about them. I've used them a bunch.     A "mineral rock," at least as I use the term, is a Trophy Rock.  Trophy Rock is simply a "rock" mined from a deposit of sea minerals in Utah.  There are only three such veins of salt sea minerals known in the world.  In other salt deposits, the minerals settled out and left just salt.  Each of the known salt sea mineral deposits have a slightly different composition.  I like the mineral composition in the vein that Trophy Rock mines in Utah.  It is 100% natural and a great blend of 60+ minerals that benefits deer.

Walnut Beast

Quote from: Jeff on May 07, 2021, 09:59:24 AM
My brother in law had  small deer mineral business back before it became a thing. Trapper Pete's Grow em big.  He never took it to the level he should have. The packaging thing for retail ticked him off and he quit. We use to deliver it in plastic milk jugs. I still have about a 100lbs mixed up.  I inherited the recipe and the cement mixer to mix it in.  


The Forestry Forum members did a wonderful thing for my best friend when he was dieing with all the cards from all over.  I know, he would not mind that I know give you that recipe he created.

@mike_belben



 
It needs some sort of anti predator ingredient in it for the cabin.:)
A big thank you for sharing that. That's a really good fix. It seems to have everything covered I was looking for copper. And yes it's in there👍. It's in the Kent bio. I'm definitely going to do the recipe.  Forget everything else 😂

mike_belben

penn state has a cutting edge deer study program and a really similar topography and dirt composition to my area.  our sandstone is referred to as "pennsylvanian era" actually.

anyways they trap and collar deer then compile data year round and have made some incredibly successful changes to the bag limits that have stabilized and improved the herd structure.  adult bucks went from 80% annual harvest rate and making up a very small percentage of the spring survivors, to being about a 50/50 mix of mature vs juvenile spring survivors.  their heard was in a crisis before the bag change.  

i like reading their blogs. this one shows the type of laurel thickets we get here in the hollars and its becoming very clear to me deer are the cause of laurel thickets so find the thicket find the deer.

https://www.deer.psu.edu/deer-crew-diaries-entry-21-10/



truth is, that is the best timber growing segment of most landowners property but due to laurel its not gonna grow a replacement stand of anything but maybe gum.  the extra moisture and nutrients,  and sunlight disadvantage of being down in a steep bottom means only the fastest straightest growing trees are found in a hollar bottom and are usually twice as tall and fully clear compared to the ridge top timber.  

i should start trying to sell a mountain laurel removal service by letter to the worst sites on GPS.  would probably get me into contact with prime hunting, stone and timber holdings. i imagine it would require a lotta corn feeders and food plots to keep the deer from eating all the regen once the laurel is removed.    
Praise The Lord

KEC

Dogone, I think you hit on an important factor with the parasites,good nutrition doesn't help an animal if it's all feeding parasites. 

mike_belben

i have really wanted to make permethrin paint roller feeders for a long time but its just never made it to the front of the list.  breaking up the tick life cycle on the deer would probably reduce the human misery they create too. 
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Just deleted 151 trail cam vids since that pregnant doe i posted what, a week ago?  Maybe 10 vids lacked a deer.  I never thought i would be able to get tired of watching deer cam vids of my own but it happened.  Took 30 mins to blast through them. 











Does all day, bro's all night.  Find me more deer parked over $15 of anything. 
Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast


mike_belben

if i can keep it a secret from my neighbor buddies on the next ridge!   :D


the bachelors are self segregating into varsity and JV.  heres some little guys.






and heres the big boys.  a few vids had mature bucks running off young ones. 







the solo stud








look at the neck, shoulder and hams on this guy considering its spring and hes probably lost 20-30% of his rutting mass. 


big hocks







theres a bean field somewhere missing a lot of crop!
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

speaking of which, mine just keeps getting taller, thats a pick axe.  test plot with no fertilizer or lime is twice as high as any hay field around.  i feel like im finally starting to get things figured out.




Praise The Lord

Tacotodd

Quote from: mike_belben on May 14, 2021, 03:15:26 PM
if i can keep it a secret from my neighbor buddies on the next ridge!   :D


the bachelors are self segregating into varsity and JV.  heres some little guys.






and heres the big boys.  a few vids had mature bucks running off young ones.







the solo stud








look at the neck, shoulder and hams on this guy considering its spring and hes probably lost 20-30% of his rutting mass.


big hocks







theres a bean field somewhere missing a lot of crop!



That buck isn't even fully in his prime. I can only tell because one in the prime of life (or past) usually has some sway in his back. It's still looking to be a nice trophy, because a trophy is what I define as: a great challenge accomplished by the individual. You should have fun no matter what happens. 
Trying harder everyday.

mike_belben

Given the chance i will gladly make him prime rib. 
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Wife wanted to go see my paradise so we checked on the foodplot and made sure camera was still there.  No big bucks on this batch but another 40 or so vids of healthy pregnant does and a few juvenile bucks pushing up antlers.    A deer popped up and trotted off after wed been there 40 minutes or more on a running quad.    


The lick is all rutted up. Pretty soon i will re-salt it then probably pull my camera for the summer and stay out until its time to seed in the winter crop.  Probably radish, turnip, winter wheat and rutabega.

Ive got another plot spot on a sunny mid-slope bench picked out.  Its below the lick, which is on a high staging area just a bit into the woods from the pasture edge.  The lick and both plots are basically in a line downhill to a year round creek in a deep bottom.  quite a few ways one could hike to it pending wind conditions.  Lots of good trees for a stand but also easy to hunt from the ground thanks to elevation.
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

young preggo.  





i fixed the timestamp and have seen a definite 7am and 7pm trend in the group movements.  middle of the night seems to be more solo deer.  my presence doesnt seem to be much deterrent.  theyre back on it 3 hours after i leave. 



Praise The Lord

mike_belben

so yesterday i finally got a huge cervid compliment ive wanted for a long time.


id loaded my poor tired donkey down with everything but the kitchen sink and headed out to the woods with new dog, pity.  being a wild dog, she disappears and reappears as she wants and i will let her back in the gate whenever she shows up, that sorta thing.  she takes off and im puttering down my logging road to cross my back 4 acres alone.  when i get to this mud hole that is presently a dried up winter creek, i get off to check for tracks, whether by 2 or 4 legged manufacture.  





i shut quad off and call for pity a few times, listening quietly.  then walk to the front of the quad staring down at the mud for tracks ...





when crash bam boom crunch slam RIGHT next to me.. i even started to blurt out "there you are girl" when i look up to see a big brown rump and velvet main beams darting out of the dry creek thicket about 15 feet over.  it took a minute to sink in.  i rode a metallic clanging quad down my main trail for about 3 minutes to get here.  the buck stayed bedded harder than any other deer bumping i have ever encountered.  nothing sticks to a bed like that unless it is really dang comfy. and IT WAS ON MY LAND.  4 acres in a thousand.. not even a postage stamp.  wow.  i am flattered.  


so i poke around a bit to find the exact spot hes been sleeping in, and its a bed i made myself thats never been inhabited before.  right there against the log at my finger tip.  i hinge cut the trash into a shade cathedral with 3 ways of egress, right next to a most of summer water feature, down in a trough with good cover all around, and now some very healthy little forage plots and some mineral salt within 200 yards i guess.  i rooted up and raked out the exact spot he lays in, and im in this area all the time now preparing a home site, yet he beds there despite me.  very cool feeling.  








i went out to the spot a mile away and resalted the mineral site, put down a sack of corn with 3lbs of alfalfa pelleted safe-guard dewormer.  $8.50 for the corn and $11.xx for the dewormer.  next round i will spray the corn with ivermectin for the next treatment approaching fall to help kill off the ticks and bot fly larvae as well as intestinal worms.

i watered and slightly fertilized my food plot seedlings that are struggling with hot and dry in a very thin topsoil over rocky clay.  then used a pulp hook to poke holes to interseed soybean i grew last year, and hydrated in a bag of water from that morning, supposedly very important for good germination.   AG research shows soybean yields are best when planted as early as possible after frost, and that 1.75" is the ideal planting depth to balance good rooting and a quick sprout time. i have low expectations but wont know if i dont try.


checked the camera and as always plenty of action, mostly at night and almost exclusively by pregnant does at this point.  no more bucks.  i dont know if its that they dont have the need for the salt or they just cant stand the obvious human interference.  all the does look quite healthy and ready to drop.  havent seen any fawns yet but looking forward to it.  eager to see what all eats the corn pile.
Praise The Lord

Tacotodd

Just get the camera ready, it's going to be a wild ride!
Trying harder everyday.

mike_belben

well. im learning a lot. 

 i finally got the quad back together and went out to pull my cam.  sort of a big surprise.. most of a corn pile sitting right there sprouted over from the rains i guess.  i made the initial decision that they must not have been willing to eat it because of the pelletized safeguard intermixed in the pile.   knocked the sticky pile apart and scattered it around hoping they eat a bit more and maybe even that a few volunteer stalks take root. it was fermenting and hot and moldy.  the top layer was rooting in the lower layers like a growth media.  ive seen this before in a box of soybean that sprouted too. 

so i grabbed a clump of hearty green sprouted seed and figured what the heck, planted it into my struggling young food plot then went home.  


checked the cam and was surprised again.  130 vids in about 10 days. when the coons, crows, wind and nothings were deleted id say there was 70 deer vids.  no fawns yet, one or two big fat preggers, one or two new does looking pretty ragged and scrawny, one might have mites thinning its fur.  then a pile of bucks, day and night.  definitely getting chewed up by face flies and various pests.  caught a few good dominant buck runs other buck off segments, and nearly one fight.  also a lot of bucks eating side by side with a coon.  that sorta stuff.  

their antlers are growing fast, id say over an inch per week.  the biggest ones are presently around 3inch of main beam and a cluster at the tops looking like a knuckle or a twig bud, ready to branch into tines.  theyre all still taking in salt and quite a few picked over the corn pile even as it turned green with sprouts.  but yet at least 3/4 of the sack remained. 


so i guess theres a bunch of factors. the safegard pellets may have been one turnoff.  then the constant click of a camera right in front of it probably unsettled another contingent of them from staying very long.  add in the smell and maybe poor flavor as the pile sprouted and fermented.  and finally the thousand or so acres of massive, massive lush browse, both forested and ripe in pasture.  theres just so much other food. 


so $20 ventured and i got my moneys worth in education.  adjustments i will make from here are switching to ivomec sprayed onto the corn instead of the safe guard pellets.  now i cant say they didnt eat the pellets because i didnt find any but how do i know they werent cherry picked by the crow or coon or ants? or that they didnt melt in the rain.  the deer may have eaten them but i cant be sure either way.  with spray treated corn there is no question, if its eaten there getting it.  also the ivomec/ivermectin will kill arthopods, ticks, chiggers, mites, bot fly larvae and worms of the intestines and heart so thats a lot of relief if youre a deer. 


i will not feed corn again unless the foliage is gone, and i will not pile it to ferment so fast again either.  ill lay it out in several long thin rows. thatll help more deer get in on it too, rather than just the dominant one crowding the pile for itself.   

will get some pics up later. 
Praise The Lord

mike_belben





This is the worst looking deer ive seen on my camera and im thinking it migrated in solo based on it being alone and never seeing before.  All the regulars are in good health. I hope it got some dewormer.  I suspect its got mange,  zooming in on the laptop shows the same patchy dry skin that the new rescue dog was suffering from.  These are just pics of the laptop screen to save me the grief of importing. 






I guess thats what hydroponic corn sprouts look like!  I brought a glob home and filled the empty space in my garden with the heartiest shoots.











 




















Note the coon bottom left.  I bet that little fatty is free of worms cuz he hit that pile constantly!







Praise The Lord

mike_belben

Theyve excavated about 6 inches of salt flavored dirt so far.



Praise The Lord

Tacotodd

Don't worry Mike, I've seen them dig it down fairly consistently to about 1'. Your hole is JUST beginning 🤨
Trying harder everyday.

HemlockKing

Quote from: mike_belben on July 20, 2021, 11:30:01 PM
Theyve excavated about 6 inches of salt flavored dirt so far.




Should try putting some salt on a old stump see how they do, make some chainsaw slits into it so you can dump salt into it, wonder if they could be natural stump grinders lol
A1

thecfarm

They will do some damage to a stump!! I have not put one out in years.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

mike_belben

Excavation update. 

Late July




Early September



These guys are serious about mineral!
Praise The Lord

HemlockKing

I'm definitely trying to drill some holes in stumps now and pouring that stuff in
A1

mike_belben

i personally would ring it around your stumps so that the deer excavate the root system out and make a bowl around it.  then the rainwater will be pooled around and let the microbial action weaken the main roots so they can just be snapped off with a winch and choker cable.  

deer can eat dirt a lot easier than they can eat wood. ive been using the little backhoe to dig little pool rings around big stumps and its pretty fast that they turn punky.   
Praise The Lord

mike_belben

ive been reading this old study about the critical nature of salt in all livestock diets.

https://seaagri.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/salt_and_trace_elements_in_animal_nutrition.pdf


it appears that a lot of cannibalism in high stress confinement animals might just be the seeking of salt to satisfy a dietary deficiency because stress demands more of it. blood is full of salt so one little taste and they dont stop nibbling. 
Praise The Lord

HemlockKing

Quote from: mike_belben on September 08, 2021, 10:58:30 AM
i personally would ring it around your stumps so that the deer excavate the root system out and make a bowl around it.  then the rainwater will be pooled around and let the microbial action weaken the main roots so they can just be snapped off with a winch and choker cable.  

deer can eat dirt a lot easier than they can eat wood. ive been using the little backhoe to dig little pool rings around big stumps and its pretty fast that they turn punky.  
Good thinking!
A1

mike_belben

Well boys, (and roxie)

I have been regularly maintaining and monitoring the same mineral site for 9 or 10 months now and what i can tell you is that to buy a mineral block now during hunting frenzy prices is just throwing money away.  The antlers are grown, the fawns are run off and theres just not much need for mineral right now compared to when trying to regrow a rack or a fetus.  Its acorns acorns acorns at this time down here.  Cherry picking the tastiest right now as theres a bumper crop and still fair weather, leaves are just turning.

As soon as the sheds and embryos occur lets say by jan/feb then its a mineral frenzy right through to summer. Starts tapering maybe august sept. Theyll take a few licks but not mob around fighting to eat the dirt and visiting 3x a day at all hours. Thats what theyll do to a mineral site from breeding/shedding time thru greenup.


The time to set mineral and corn is the dead of winter when theyre suffering the most,  the second it is legal to do so.  Youll be rewiring the entire herd pattern for the following year, theyll beat in new trails and staging areas and routines.  Come hunting season salt is almost useless and illegal for me.  corn is illegal but is like deer crack once the leaves and acorns are gone so its tough to pattern if youve got a poacher hiding corn sacks nearby.. Very common in my area. Shifts behavior.

Butfor the legal guy.. the pattern from mineral that is timed to best benefit the deer rather than the hunter is still there when hunting season arrives.   The seeking buck is gonna snort all over the usual doe grounds lookin for love. You dont need an attractant if he is wired to check all those memorable places.  Cattle research has proven a cow out on open range can remember a water or mineral site miles away. Loverboy is gonna check the usual spots, and hopefully you have left it unpressured enough that he checks it in daylight.  

Dont set mineral in fall and dont set corn in spring or summer.  Theyll both go to waste. Dead of winter is best time for both once it is legal. Youll be doing a herd a big favor. Once greenup happens theyll walk right by shelled corn. Mine sprouted in a heap while they licked salt 6 feet away.
Praise The Lord

Chuck White

Salt is salt, or so I've heard!

Water softener salt is readily available and is cheap, is it just like any other salt, other than it's shape?
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Magicman

Yes, salt is salt.  There is much written/believed about salt such as "Sea Salt", Kosher Salt, and whatever.  Trace elements added (iodine, etc.) or removed but:  Salt  is still salt  Kosher Salt
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mike_belben

Start curing meat and youll find a whole different opinion on what salts are appropriate for this or that.  It gets complicated! 

 I am using a 50/50 mix or dicalcium phosphate and trace mineral salt because its the most bang for the buck. Hundred pounds for $30ish. Ive given out a lot to friends and still have a few inches in the bucket.

so my blend is mostly salt, calcium and phospherus plus maybe 8 or so trace minerals.  Skeleton is mostly calcium and phospherus by volume i guess. And we all need sufficient sodium in our blood to sustain life. 
Praise The Lord

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