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Putting in car decking - uneven floor joists

Started by John P., November 14, 2021, 05:49:05 PM

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John P.

I'm finally starting to install my second floor, and have encountered a problem. Two of my floor joists are warped. I believe checking/drying is to blame - when the frame went up (several years ago) everything fit perfectly.

Anyhow, here's how I'm doing the assembly - 2x8 T&G right on top of my floor joists. Joists are spaced at 33" OC, and per my architect friend with a 1.5" SYP board will be overbuilt:



However, two of the joists have gone wonky.

This end is probably OK as-is, shimming will be visible from below:



However, this one sticks up about 1/4" due to the checking:



And the other side about an 1/8":



Any recommendations on what I should do? I have a handheld 2" electric planer but only have used it with an edge guide on doors. I have a router and could make a sled for it that would span three joists.

Thanks!

Jim_Rogers

Shave it down by whatever method you can use.
The one where the shim will show, move the shim closer to the middle so it won't show or don't use a shim. The side that supports the flooring can take the load.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

sumday

We always just set the handheld electric plane pretty shallow and made multiple passes to feather it out until it looked good. 

John P.

I'll give the plane a try then - worst-case scenario it's uneven and I build a router sled (really don't want to go that route).

mike_belben

i would likely shoot some wood glue in the split,  C clamp the split joist together and shoot a few deck screws in from the top where itll be our secret.  

it may be a terrible idea though, as im not sure if this will reduce or promote additional cracking or movement. i would hope being locked together by the flooring will suppress movements.  any guesses?  @Don P 
Praise The Lord

John P.

Quote from: mike_belben on November 14, 2021, 07:37:37 PM
i would likely shoot some wood glue in the split,  C clamp the split joist together and shoot a few deck screws in from the top where itll be our secret.  

it may be a terrible idea though, as im not sure if this will reduce or promote additional cracking or movement. i would hope being locked together by the flooring will suppress movements.  any guesses?  @Don P
I'm hoping the planer works, will certainly give it a try tomorrow... but if the c clamp idea is plausible, I'll head out and use this as an excuse to buy some large clamps :laugh:. My guess is, though, it would take a tremendous amount of force to close up the checking.

Don P

As in, you'll never close it, nor do you want to clamp it hard enough to close it at this point. That is the shape of the timber, now shape the timber to what you need.

I would use a power planer as mentioned just polishing it with light cuts and frequent checks with a level across several joists. I've seen where they were using an axe or hatchet back in the day. We had one homeowner, I've worked for them multiple times and we have a tough love relationship. The world lost a good tradesman when he answered the call and became a lowly lawyer. Anyway, I was working on their house and was out in the yard with some piece of wood and was shaping it with the power planer. Well, to back up, this house, when he moved in, young man with a new family, recently minted public defender on a skimpy salary... anyway, this house had zero property tax value, it was that bad. For at least a decade it had been used as the haunted house at Halloween and sat abandoned the rest of the time. I've been 8' under that house digging a new foundation as well. Anyway, it has a bit of funk to the framing so I'm power planing something or other. John shows up from somewhere "Ahh, the power planer, the fastest way to make a crooked board out of a straight one"
"Yeah I needed a crooked board for your funky framing  :D"

I use the power planer a lot to help straighten out old rough sawn, usually oak framing that was built green and then has a century on it. No matter how much you sweep it with a metal detector its a good bet you'll be into the spare pack of blades.

Tom King

Make long passes with the power planer, starting on the high point.  I'd use a straightedge of some sort, and mark a line with a very sharp pencil.  Leave only the line, and knock it off with a block plane when you get it down where it's supposed to be.  If you take short strokes, it's very easy to scallop the edge.

This is a very common practice, even when I'm framing a stick built house.

I've never seen a 2" power planer.  I have a couple of 3-1/4's, and a 6-1/8.  One of the small ones is kept for rough work, and one for finish, so I don't have to change blades very often.

Use your straightedge ( I use some level up to a 78" one) as a feeler perpendicular, across the tops of the joists.  When it stops rocking, you're done.  Don't get too greedy taking it off.  Keep checking as you go. 

John P.

Quote from: Tom King on November 15, 2021, 08:18:35 AM
I've never seen a 2" power planer.  I have a couple of 3-1/4's, and a 6-1/8.  One of the small ones is kept for rough work, and one for finish, so I don't have to change blades very often.
Whoops - good catch. It is 3-1/4. I have used it so infrequently (probably one of the "worst" purchases I've bought, having used it three times).

mike_belben

Quote from: Don P on November 14, 2021, 09:00:26 PM
this house had zero property tax value, it was that bad. For at least a decade it had been used as the haunted house at Halloween and sat abandoned the rest of the time. I've been 8' under that house digging a new foundation as well. 
you know what i like most about you Don?  no matter how high up you get, you arent too proud to scrub the toilet.  if only every american had your humility. im being sincere.   most people get a certain level of prestige and suddenly start farming out the things that are suddenly "beneath them."  i like that you can make a structural engineer go cross eyed yet havent forgotten what a shovel does. good on you sir 
Praise The Lord

Don P

Humblest man I know, why I've thought of giving humility lessons.
DanG, humility is one of those things, if you realize you got it... you ain't got it  :D.

But thanks Mike, I know whatcha mean. But I swear, not another roof, after this one.

I was really clicking in to say it all depends on what you're doing, I'm on my third or fourth one, like Tom said, when you're framing they're a daily driver. Although the one of those got smushed by an overturning man lift and a roofer lifting one pack too many  ::). Happily it was the only casualty. He came in with a handful of blue plastic and aluminum and said "What did this use to be?"  :D

firefighter ontheside

I have to concur with the power hand planer to remove what's above the ledger.  You could consider just some nice tan, flexible caulk to fill the gap left on the other side.  There's a lot of that in my log home.  I use something called big stretch.  My second floor is t&g pine 2x6 that spans about the same as yours.  I thought it was gonna be great at first, but as soon as we got it all on we realized it will flex and squeak a lot.  I screwed and glued down a layer 1/2" ply to help with that.  If i had known ahead of time, I probably would have put construction adhesive in the groove of each board.  The floor still squeaks and isn't a problem now, but when I had babies sleeping the room below it was a problem.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

John P.

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on November 15, 2021, 03:32:41 PM
 My second floor is t&g pine 2x6 that spans about the same as yours.  I thought it was gonna be great at first, but as soon as we got it all on we realized it will flex and squeak a lot.  I screwed and glued down a layer 1/2" ply to help with that.  If i had known ahead of time, I probably would have put construction adhesive in the groove of each board.  The floor still squeaks and isn't a problem now, but when I had babies sleeping the room below it was a problem.
Argg, I had wondered about an adhesive, but I probably would need some between the boards and the joists, as well as the grooves... this isn't a house (although, frankly, should be :D), more an over built, over designed, over the top work shop. Or I could learn to love the squeaks.

Don P


mike_belben

Praise The Lord

John P.

Quote from: firefighter ontheside on November 15, 2021, 03:32:41 PM
My second floor is t&g pine 2x6 that spans about the same as yours.  I thought it was gonna be great at first, but as soon as we got it all on we realized it will flex and squeak a lot.
Actually - how did you attach the 2x6 T&G? Screw size, type, direction?

John P.

Quote from: Don P on November 15, 2021, 07:46:56 PM
Talcum powder  ;)
While I'm installing them, or after when they start to squeak?

sumday

We put down miles of 2x6 t&g during our log cabin building years. Almost always shot it down with a nail gun because it was very rarely the finished floor. When we were building our personal home I wanted it to be the finished floor so in an effort to eliminate squeaks as much as possible we bored two  1/2" holes every joist/every board about a half inch deep and ran 3 inch screws in. Then I got my dad to cut me a boatload of plugs from walnut dowels on his band saw. Super tedious gluing and tapping each on in but it sure did look nice after the floor sanding and staining was done.

Don P

Quote from: John P. on November 15, 2021, 08:26:13 PM
Quote from: Don P on November 15, 2021, 07:46:56 PM
Talcum powder  ;)
While I'm installing them, or after when they start to squeak?


That's a carpenters squeek callback cure. If you can get a little in the offending area the two pieces slip silently.

John P.

Quote from: sumday on November 15, 2021, 09:42:01 PM
We put down miles of 2x6 t&g during our log cabin building years. Almost always shot it down with a nail gun because it was very rarely the finished floor. When we were building our personal home I wanted it to be the finished floor so in an effort to eliminate squeaks as much as possible we bored two  1/2" holes every joist/every board about a half inch deep and ran 3 inch screws in. Then I got my dad to cut me a boatload of plugs from walnut dowels on his band saw. Super tedious gluing and tapping each on in but it sure did look nice after the floor sanding and staining was done.
Oh no don't get me started down that route. I am going to use screws, they will self countersink, then I will apply some form of click lock on top (repeat this mantra three times, and it will come true).

Don P

That's the other way to cure the squeak problem, mask it with something noisier  ;D.

John P.

Quote from: Don P on November 16, 2021, 07:18:44 AM
That's the other way to cure the squeak problem, mask it with something noisier  ;D.
Wait - erm. Sorry, I'm being dense. Are you saying using plugs and having it be the finished floor would be noisier? Putting a surface on top would be (click lock)? 

Don P

I was being a smart ash, but my experience with those thin snap together floors is they are noisy enough to mask any other sounds going on under foot. Probably just the same love/hate followings as Chevy trucks, banjos and grits  :D.

John P.

Quote from: Don P on November 16, 2021, 08:44:16 AM
I was being a smart ash, but my experience with those thin snap together floors is they are noisy enough to mask any other sounds going on under foot. Probably just the same love/hate followings as Chevy trucks, banjos and grits  :D.
Gotcha :D. I'm just looking for some sort of semi-durable, easy to care for, "inexpensive" surface. I just... it's time. I take forever to finish things, so need to be realistic in what I can accomplish in a reasonable time.

firefighter ontheside

Mine are hand nailed with 16 penny ring shank nails.  We did put down a bead of adhesive under each one.  If you look closely at the ceiling on the first floor you can see spots where the adhesive squeezed out.  No one notices it but me and it doesn't bother me.  I used the same material for the roof first layer of decking.  You can hear it flexing on windy days.  Adds character to the cabin feel of our home.

I'm in the process of making t&g hardwood flooring to replace the carpet in the bedroom.  I will tear out the carpet, put down a layer of 15lb felt and nail down the flooring.  I can't decide if I think the squeak will get worse or better with the hardwood.  Part of me thinks the wood flooring will distribute my weight better as I walk and therefore the floor will flex less.  At least that's my hope.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

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