posting of the roads

[thecfarm]

Well one town is posting the roads.  ;D
Fayette, ME roads are posted. 
They put them up on Feb 1. Not really a warm spell for 2-3 days, but they put them up. 
Has not been above freezing since.
But might get there tomorrow.

[sawguy21]

With our mild weather we should get it any day which is close to a month earlier than normal.

[firefighter ontheside]

That doesn't happen here, but maybe I should post my own driveway, because it will get really bad and my truck may be too heavy to drive on it.

[SwampDonkey]

Probably be 5 more weeks here before posting, sometime in March.

[aigheadish]

What does this mean "posting the roads?"

I can only think about a couple years back the wife and I went to Costa Rica. We stayed out in the country, in an AirBnB, and were warned to get there during daylight hours because the place is hard to find. We were also warned that street signs weren't as used (I'm being nice) as we may be used to in the US. Well, as we pulled out of the rental car place to find, essentially, zero street name signs we (I) immediately took a wrong turn and we proceeded to get lost. We were supposed to be on Rt. 2 going south, straight down the middle of the country (where I'd REALLY studied the map and knew where I was going), but instead the first thing I recognized was the Pacific Ocean just on our right. We eventually made it but what was supposed to be a 3 hour drive turned into a crazy 6 hour adventure, a couple hours in the complete dark, to finally make it to the house. We found that the only street signs we saw were in the major cities and they were often kind of hidden, in random places, on the sides of buildings. 

[SwampDonkey]

Frost heaves in the roads as they thaw triggers a posting by DOT for reduction in gross weight on them.

[snobdds]

So weird...I have never seen such a thing. We have pretty significant frost in the ground here as well. 

Is it because of the soil type the roads are built on?

[PoginyHill]

Details vary by state. In Vermont it is a town decision - when to post and when to remove the post. Many of Vermont roads turn into a muddy mess without heavy trucks. Some would be a complete disaster with heavy truck traffic - if they didn't get stuck. Generally it only applies to dirt roads. Some towns may post their paved roads. State roads/highways are typically not posted. They are normally built with a sufficient base to withstand freeze/thaw.

[sawguy21]

Typically our highways are limited to 70% of legal axle loading, forest service roads are often closed to heavy truck traffic. Otherwise they get chewed up so badly they are impassable and erosion is increased. The mills typically race to stock up on logs but our mild weather coupled with a high snowpack has made that a difficult task.

[Ianab]

Is it because of the soil type the roads are built on?

Seasonal thing.

In the Winter the roads are frozen and good to drive on. 
In the Summer the roads are dry, and good to drive on. 

But in between when the ground is only partly frozen, heavy trucks will beat the snot out of them. 

It's a foreign concept here in NZ as well, because we don't get a freeze over winter, and heavy trucks just tend to beat the snot out of the roads all year. :  But worse when it's rained a lot and the subsoil under the road gets turned to mush, which is what I imagine happens while their frozen ground is thawing out. Locally, to fix it the whole road has to be dug out maybe a foot deep and new gravel laid and then fresh seal. If they just re-seal the subsurface us still mush, and the road just breaks up again.

[SwampDonkey]

One should take a...umm journey, out the Napadogan road. ;D There's about 2 miles in the middle that has patch over patch over patch, and the new holes are never patched before July most years. :D You can't go faster than 30, on a 50 m/hr (80 km/hr) road if you want a vehicle that isn't ready for the service shop. :D It's built on top of rock and sand, not clay and mud.

[barbender]

We have what we call "spring breakup" in MN, people that aren't from here might think we are going through marital issues if they dropped in on our conversations. Maybe not coincidentally, a lot of marital issues seem to occur during spring breakup, when the woods crews are shut down in large part and most roads are closed to loaded truck traffic. Ma has to get used to the husband she hasn't seen for the last 4 months suddenly being in her hair constantly😂 Our state highways are mostly rated at 10 tons per axle during the spring, so we can still haul on those. Same with many of the main county highways. But once you get to secondary roads they are often posted 5 tons. So there is a mad rush to get all the wood out so it doesn't get trapped for 2 months behind a closed road. Our trucks will commonly yard sales out to woodyard on 10 ton roads, so we can haul it into the mill during breakup. 

[sawguy21]

I refer to them as mother nature's speed bumps. Water expands as it freezes pushing the road surface up which then collapses during the thaw. I was in a foul mood driving an International cab over and pushing too hard when I hit one, I came off the seat, this was before mandatory seat belts, hit the roof and came down draped over the steering wheel. I slowed down.

[snobdds]

Well I learned something new today.  

I guess, good for wyoming for having roads that don't heave in spring. Now if only they could find a way to not dump mountains of salt on the roads. 

[SwampDonkey]

There's also a big difference between 4" of frost and 3 foot deep frost under a road. :D

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah, about 32" right? I was never very good at math.

[Bruno of NH]

No postings yet 
My intuition says by Friday 

[Resonator]

It is usually the secondary roads that are posted in spring, (haven't by me yet, maybe in a month) The major highways are built to higher standard that isn't effected as much by the frost. I worked in different states hauling material to and from road construction projects, where they would dig down the roadbed and then build up the subgrade to provide a good road foundation. In some swampy areas it could be thousands of tons of bad material dug out many feet down, and then new sand or rock trucked in and compacted to pass the test.

[Peter Drouin]

  Not so fast, I have logs coming.

[Ianab]

I worked in different states hauling material to and from road construction projects, where they would dig down the roadbed and then build up the subgrade to provide a good road foundation. In some swampy areas it could be thousands of tons of bad material dug out many feet down, and then new sand or rock trucked in and compacted to pass the test

That's the sort of issue we have here. Subsoil is mostly a light volcanic ash, which is usually pretty stable, but then the road passes into an area of old swamp or river silt, often with spring water under the surface.  So they missed a Summer of routine maintenance, and large sections of the main highway started simply breaking up. Ended having to partially close the road, put in detours and fix it properly. 


Then you compare that to some of the roads around the Sth Island that are perfect. But they run over miles of compacted glacier gravel. Perfect bed for building a road on. 


Like you say when they built main highways they can justify the $millions that it takes to get the foundations right. People still complain that it cost too much of course. But with rural road, there isn't that budget. 

[thecfarm]

The state roads are built better to handle mud season. 
The sides roads are the ones that get posted. Meaning no heavy loads are allowed.
Oil deliveries are OK.
I don't know the law, but if it stays below freezing for 24 or 48 hours you can truck across it.
The postings are there to keep the roads in good shape, been posting roads for many many years now.
No other towns have put up posted signs yet.

[Corley5]

  We have State Trunk Lines which are federal and state highways.  Only a very few state highways may have "frost laws".  At the county level we have Class A Roads which are "frost law" free.  The County Road Association of Michigan has a listing of counties on their site with dates of frost laws for counties.  None in Michigan are on yet.  Seasonal Weight Restrictions - Michigan County Road Association (micountyroads.org)
 The goal is to get your side road jobs wrapped up and equipment moved to a Class A road job before the frost laws go on.  Counties do allow in some cases roads to be bonded to still allow for hauling.  Last I knew it was $6,500 per mile for gravel side roads in Cheboygan County.

[SwampDonkey]

Roads posted here are rural farm roads as well, usually 80%. The 560, 550, 110, 130 and #2 near me are never posted, others as well not near me. Pretty much any road with a route # on it is not posted. Some should be though. :D

[aigheadish]

Thanks for the info gang! 

It seems my experience in Costa Rica doesn't, contextually, make sense at all!

[woodroe]

Buckle up or else your head will be hitting the cab roof.
Roads are already cracking and heaving here. 6 more weeks of hell on the highway !

[thecfarm]

I saw the orange signs today.
We are in a warm spell. Might even go above freezing for 2 days. temps are above freezing almost every day, might even get 50 one day.
Can't see how it will last.
But the 7 day forecast is above freezing each day.

[GAB]

Our 5th season - MUD SEASON.
You know it is a good mud season when the postal people get stuck with a 4WD or AWD in the middle of the road.
GAB

[WV Sawmiller]

  These descriptions remind me of the rainy season in Cameroon and The Central African republic. The roads there off the main highways were dirt/clay. During the rainy season usually near a village you would see three posts with a cross arm which might be a pole, a big piece of bamboo or a rope/cable stretched across the road. Two of the pole were set just wide enough for a typical passenger vehicle to pass between. On the other side would be another wider opening for the log trucks and any flatbed transports that might be passing through. I don't know how they passed the message when to close or open the roads. They were supposed to be open to passenger vehicles but were not safe for the bigger rigs. There was always an attendant somewhere close by and when you'd pull up he/she would eventually stroll out and open the small gate for passenger vehicles. Of course more often than not when they saw a white/foreign face the rain gate just became a toll gate and the attendant would want some compensation for their time and effort although I am sure they were appointed/paid by local government. Of course those same governments were also notoriously slow paying.

[Ed]

We still have a few remote country roads that are cordury under the gravel, mainly in low places with a high water table.
On a bad year, the frost will push the timbers right out of the roadbed. They become impassable and the road gets closed 

Ed

[SwampDonkey]

They will post roads here locally March 6th according to their website. Feb 27th in the southern region. I have not seen enforcement around here in years.

"There used to be RCMP officers whose job was to enforce the road safety code, placing themselves on the highway with a radar, on the lookout for speeding vehicles.

But those days are gone.

Because of lack of resources, the RCMP dismantled the traffic unit in the Moncton region, in the southeast region... and other traffic units all over New Brunswick.

In the 70s and 80s, New Brunswick had its own police force, with more than 100 officers in uniform working in traffic.

That force was dismantled in 1989." [August 2018 report by the CBC]

[Al_Smith]

With the mild winter I don't expect much frost damage this spring .They keep the roads in pretty good shape usually .
My 600 foot driveway looks good but come mid April I'll grade it and run a roller on it .That should do it for the year .About every 5-7 years I have around 80 tons of top dress hauled in .Driveway gravel is a lot like beer--you can only rent it .

[SwampDonkey]

Driveway here is better than the main road passing by. I can guarantee you that. Don't plan on being in a hurry out there. Plus if you don't watch it, you may slam into those wild turkeys down the road that cross all the time. Yep, I watch for them buzzards every time I go down by there. They might be smart or lucky so far. :D

[thecfarm]

These prices are from about 6 years ago.  
You can't live in a $150,000 house and drive your $20,000 car on a gravel driveway without spending money on it. Even $100 a year will help.  :
I see some driveways unpassable around here.
I have a 500-foot driveway I maintain. I make little ruts, about 2-3 inches deep in places. Some maybe only 40 feet long. but I fill them up each year.
As Al said, driveway needs to be updated every 4-5 years.
I am lucky, I am on a hill, so everything drains away from me. But still have to build the driveway high to get out of the water.
There are some roads where I live top speed for me is 25mph and less.
Summer time they do get a little better.

[SwampDonkey]

I hauled 5 loads last summer here @$160 a pop. :D My driveway doesn't wash much, some gets 'moved' in plowing over time. Not with a shovel or walk behind blower so much as with a tractor. I mostly only use  a tractor on the wet heavy or crusted over stuff.  430 feet here to maintain.

[Bruno of NH]

The postings went up around me the 7th of February 
We got 6 to 12 of snow on the way tonight 

[beenthere]

SD

Plus if you don't watch it, you may slam into those wild turkeys down the road that cross all the time. 

We have lots of wild turkeys around here, and very seldom see one that was hit by a car/truck. They are pretty road smart from what I can tell. 

[Al_Smith]

We have local flock of turkeys at the far end of the road .I think somebody is feeding them .It surprises me with the amount of oaks I don't have any. Got just about everything else .No moose or polar bears though .

[woodroe]

Those bright orange BUMP signs will be going up next. 
Besides the rough roads there are some potholes out there that will
swallow a whole tire, usually the town maintained roads like Chesterville.
Hi Ray !

[SwampDonkey]

We had one down the road last year until July before they repaired it. It's an old culvert that has sunk every year for 20 years before they got ambitious enough to fix it. :D A lot of times those signs get stolen if they sit around for months on end. After awhile they appear on the side of someone's shed or barn wall or yard tree.

[thecfarm]

woodroe, I have a different job now, no more hardware store. I delivery parts for motor supply in Livermore Falls
Guess what my run is?
Chesterville and Mount Vernon. Ever been on Egypt Pond Rd? 
The van I had has a bad tranny. I am driving a small Toyota pickup. One of those ¼ ton one. With one broken spring and needs shocks bad. Oh well keep it in 3rd gear, 30mph is job about top speed to keep it on the road.  ;)

[woodroe]

I noticed  you weren't in the hardware store the other day Ray.
Good luck with the new job. At least your not humping 50lb grain bags anymore. Seems most of the town and secondary state roads were never built properly for tar.
They basically paved over buckboard roads.

[Jeff]

I see the frost law signs are up here now. Not sure when they went up.

[chet]

Jeff yours have been on for over a week, they went on the 14th.

[GRANITEstateMP]

We are going to be posting our roads soon too... But looks like we got some plowing ahead this week first

[barbender]

We're hoping for a few weeks of winter roads up here yet. In good years (for logging😊) we get all of March.

[barbender]

Our legislature, as I understand it, passed a law that MNDOT can only keep spring restrictions on for 8 weeks. That has balanced things out pretty well, as it makes the DOT reluctant to put restrictions on too early, as they then may have to open the roads back up before the frost is out all the way. I've even seen years where we got a really warm spell early, and the put the restrictions on. Then it got really cold again so they opened then back up for a while.

[Al_Smith]

I'll just say Allen county Ohio ,right in the eastern corn belt most likely has the best maintained roads in the entire state .It's been a mild winter but any pot holes before long will be filled in .The town ships keep the ditch banks mowed but some of us do it for them .I take care of 600 feet I own on one side of the road and nearly a 1000 foot on the other side .The farmers won't do it who own the fields .It doesn't take long and the Toro could likely mow bamboo if it came to that .I just haven't figured 
 out how to operate a zero turn and drink beer at the same time .  

[Corley5]

Seasonal Weight Restrictions - Michigan County Road Association (micountyroads.org)

They're creeping north. I'm willing to bet that we'll see them early next week.

[Peter Drouin]

Mine are up here. Have a logger piling logs on a landing, Will bring them after. Have no idea how many loads. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
One thing with a sawmill $$$$$$$$$$$$ buy logs when you can get them, sell lumber to get the $$$$$$$$$ back with a profit.
A lot of $$$$$$$$$$ setting there.  :D

[twar]

No load restrictions yet in SE Norway. Mild this week, but -10° to -15° C next week. So it'll be a few weeks before the roads are "posted".

[woodroe]

BUMP next three miles. Pretty rough going in places out there.
30mph is not uncommon unless you don't mind beating up the front end
and suspension. 

[SwampDonkey]

80% restriction signs went up Monday.

[sawguy21]

Load restrictions are in effect this morning just in time for the Tolko mill to resume operation. : I saw a large number of empty rail cars moving south yesterday so imagine it will be hair straight back.