Current world events humor

[Saki]

FOR SALE - GOOD USED FRENCH INFANTRY RIFLE - 6.5 MILIMETER, BOLT ACTION - NEVER BEEN FIRED, ONLY BEEN THROWN DOWN ONCE.

[dail_h]

   I wonder if iraq will help the French the nex time the Germans come to visit???????

[Tom]

Here we are giving the U.N. an opportunity to be heros and they won't take advantage of it. :-/

[DanG]

 They risk becoming irrelevant.  I heard that somewhere, but I don't remember who said it. ;)  :

[CHARLIE]

I'd like to see the U.S. withdraw from the U.N. and see how long they last without our money and weapons and the fact we usually provide the lion's share of the troops.

As for France, I think the citizens of the U.S. should just snub them. U.S. Citizens should quit traveling to France on vacations and stop buying French products. Our government should move all the WWI and WWII graves that are in France back to the U.S.

[Jason_WI]

You would think that those wine sippers would remember what happened 60 years ago. They would all be speaking German and would all be blond haired with blue eyes if weren't for the US saving their pathetic a$$ >:(

Jason

[ADfields]

The longer we Dilly around with the U.N. the more the protesters get fired up and the harder it's gonna be to do what's GOT to be done.   If Bush had sent the boys in just after Christmas like was planed it would be all over now and nothing to protest about.   Lets do it already! >:(   Them U.N. jerks, France, Germany, Russia and the like don't give a rip about the US being safe or not, it's not them thats getting blown up and have bullseyes on there people all around the world.   I'm with Charlie on getting out of the U.N., it's only relevant so long as we say it is.
Andy

[RavioliKid]

I had been toying with the idea of going to France to study the architecture this summer. Guess I'm not going now.

[IndyIan]

I probably shouldn't say anything but I will...

Charlie, did you know the US is one of the worst countries in the UN for paying thier dues to the UN.  The US also vetos more resolutions than any other country.  Also why does france deserve to be snubbed?  The UN is a democracy just like the US.  People/countries have the right to vote however they want.  That is a fundemental principle the US is founded on so why are the rules different for france or the UN?

Jason, did you know the US let germany run all over europe for 2 years before you guys decided to get involved?

As for the UN being relevent only if the US stays in...  well judging on the number of vetos the US uses on issues of real importance the UN might be more relevent without the US...  
Here's a list:  http://www.coreyturner.com/usa-unveto.asp
Some issues there that should've been dealt with by the UN but the US vetoed them...

Anyways, I'm not anti-american, everytime I visit I meet lots of nice people and have a good time.  

What I do have a problem with is american policy and how there seems to be one set of rules for the US and another set for everyone else.  I think the USA has a great concept for democracy but the world would appreciate the US applying the same concepts to everyone else not so fortunate to live in the US.  



  

[redpowerd]

if osama needed a safe harbor, france would be it. DanG socialists.

[ADfields]

So you agree the US needs out of the UN!   Then we can ship the hole mess up to Montreal so y'all can police the 3rd world and the jets will be aimed at your city's.   Then we can spend more effort at keeping the nutcaces from bombing us down hear and keep to home money and all.  

As for snubbing France.   If someone just killed your wife and ran past your barber and he not only let the killer go but stopped you and every one from bringing the man to justis are you going to keep him as your Barber?   Give him your money next week as normal and keep on doing business with him, no hard feelings?   Thats about the size of what France is doing to us right now.    After all this I have even stopped buying french frys and now buy English chips with my money ;) and in the free democracy we have thats my choice and what it's all about.   When everyone else not so fortunate to live in the US starts paying tax hear like we that do live hear maybe we would think about treating them the same.   When I go to Canada I must live by a set of rules different than you Canadians do and I don't have a problem with that at all, it's your country not mine and you even send me back my sales tax I payed when I was there so I don't see that I have one bit of say on what Canada wants to do.   We are our own country hear and I for one would like to keep it that way as it took Meany young mens deaths to build it and if we become a one world government they were lost in vain and I could never stand for that!  

What would you have us do so you could feel good about us trying to keep our wifes and kids safe down hear?   What is it the world wants from us?   People cheer in other countries when we are killed so I don't see how our safety should EVER be left up to others as they like to see us getting killed.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or make you madder than you are I just want you to understand what I'm talking about and I would truly like to know what you say to what I have asked.   We may need to just agree to disagree in the end and I'm game for that as well, I DON'T want a fight.
Andy

[Norm]

My Grandfather fought in WWI, he was never the same after serving, my Dad fought in WWII, he still won't talk about some of the things that happened then. My son will serve with a sub-division of the OSI.

I will not lower myself to make a comment on your biased post Indylan.

My new daughter-in-law wrote a letter to ISU's paper, she's finishing up her degree while my son is serving, kind of puts a human face to this. You can't just generalize the US as a whole.

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/03/12/3e6ea1c79caf7

[redpowerd]

world events HUMOR!!!!!!!!!!
something told me this thread would be misleading!
onion rings are a great alternative to socialist fries.

[MrMoo]

Indylan,
While not wanting start an argument with you I feel that I must reply to your post. I won't go into your comments on current events however your comment on the US allowing Germany to romp over Europe for 2 years was a bit much.

I have read extensively about WWII and the politics that led up to it from the English, French, and German viewpoints.
I can assure you this was European problem and it could have been prevented by France and England and to a lesser extent Russia and Poland. Although there were times England seemed more inclined to stop Hitler France clearly had no stomach for it. Their military commanders always found reasons to say that France did not have the strength to do it. Meanwhile their government was a shambles due to the greed and self intersts of the various political factions trying to rule.
To say the US did nothing after the principles sat on their hands is nonsense. You cannot help those who will do nothing themselves.

If France currently wants to sit back again its their choice but it is a bad one. They clearly have econmic interests in the situation remaining status quo. We need to protect our people. If France wants to sit back it is their loss.

Bring on the onion rings and tater tots.

Mike

[IndyIan]

Mr Moo,
Thanks for the info about WW2, I shouldn't have said anything about it as I don't really know all that much about it.  Simple facts rarely have a simple explanation.

Norm_F, ADfields
I'm not anti-military, if the US does attack Iraq I hope they do so in the most effective manner without politics getting involved, soldiers getting killed by politicians worried about getting re-elected sickens me.  
It's just the military option might not be the best one for the US in the long term.  Just because your government says its the best thing to do doesn't mean its above debate, or anti-american to look into other options.  Saddam is an evil guy, no question about it, but what happens if 1000's of civilians are killed in Iraq just to get rid of him?  
Maybe a whole country of people with relatives killed by US bombs with nothing to lose and easily recruited by Al-Qaida?  
When will the cycle stop?  In Israel it's lasted for quite a while...
There are no easy answers in how the US and the world should act to make sure Sept, 11 never happens again.  Attacking Iraq seems too easy.  To me its been proven in Afghanistan that attacking nations to get rid of Al-Qaida will not work, there are too many people in too many countries that support Al-Qaida.  Even the US cannot attack all of them.  I believe the US and the west would be way ahead to take measures that erode Al-Qaida's support.  Not buying support but treating people all over the world with respect even if they have different religous, political, economic views, with the US's foreign policy would be a good start.  

If you're wondering why I'm writing all this, its just that I think it's an issue worthy of serious debate.  Also I get to learn alot about my southern neighbors and things in general.  I don't mean to pith anyone off but I'm presenting things how I see them.  People here are part of the foundation of how the US was built and I think its important that people really think about issues like this.  It effects everyone.

Ian

[bull]

Time to get out the history books//// who saved everyone's butt in WW 1, WW2, Korea etc.??.. The USA. And who got the finger? The USA.... And who rebuilt all those countries ?
 The USA... And who paid for all of it ? The USA... And who's hasn't gotten anything for it but the SHAFT ???? The USA...
  Why the hell are we fighting everyone elses war's.. because they don't have the BALLS.....  One attack on American 9/11cost us how many souls.....  and effected how many lives???  and for the iraqie people... well is it there country???? get the hell out of there- it looks as though life as a refugee won't be much worse.... ONCE the USofA goes in and cleans up their manure piles.... they can rebuild....
remember USA was a built Nation......  :P >:( ;)

[OneWithWood]

Fellas,  hold back on the emotions a bit!
Indy has some valid points.  Too often we citizens of the USA forget we share this planet with many others.  Just because we are the most powerful country this world has ever experienced does not mean we should act like the school yard bully - you know, give me what I want or I will kick the s**t out of you!  It may very well be that the force of arms is all that will remove Saddam Hitler Stalin Hussein from power and free the Iraqi people.  It would be nice if our government had the good sense to work with the nations that make up the UN as the founding member should and not say 'we don't need your support'.  It sure would help our cause if after we kick Saddam's butt to be seen as liberators and champions of a repressed people than to be viewed as the bully of the world pursuing its own agenda.  Yes, we need to be strong to protect our citizens and we need to ferret out those who have sworn to harm us.  It would be a much easier task if we would stop feeding their cause by our arrogant actions.  If France wishes to pursue a different agenda it is at their own risk but we can hardly cry fowl if they are doing it for there own economic advantage.  Our country's track record of looking out for our own economic benefit at the expense of others is not all that great.
Please, do not misinterpret my intentions.  I love this country and I am very proud to be a taxpaying citizen.  I believe strongly in the priciples this country was founded on and the one I cherish the most is the right to speak freely and disagree with policies I believe to be misguided.  Sometimes, if we listen, our good neighbors outside our borders can open our eyes to how we are percieved by the world.  That perception is the direct result of how we interact with the world.  It would not hurt us to pay attention and treat others as we expect to be treated.
OK, I will relinguish the sop box - I am afraid of heights anyway. . .  

[Jeff]

I would like to interrupt for a brief commercial announcement.


O.K. Thanks, go ahead. ;)

[Scott]

 I think that was very well said OneWithWood.

[ADfields]

"It would not hurt us to pay attention and treat others as we expect to be treated."
That works for me.   I don't expect to be able to do the stuff that Iraq has done and not pay a VERY heavy price.   I am very happy to treat others far better than I would expect them to treat me but not at the expense of the safety of my loved ones!   If I felt for half a secant that they would not remove us from the face of the world with a smile had they the power, had I the first doubt that they are working away at getting that power I may think different then I do.   I know he is itching to take us out and seeking a means to do so and sooner or later he will find a way if we don't take him out first.   The world has tried for years now to fix this because we did not do it when we should have and it cant be done with out someone doing it at this point.   Without war we will never see a change at this point, just more games and more cloak and dagger till one day the USA is blind sided all over.   The people in power in Iraq will no more give up all the weapons than I would and we are forced to pry them from cold dead hands or duck and cover hoping the aim is poor from now on!!   Like the old saying war is hell but you know I sure don't like the other options we have with this!   At some point we got to look out for #1 as I don't see a lot of help jumping in to help watch our back.  

Hay Jeff like most of the commercials I see any more I have no clue what you are selling. ???   I normally ask the wife what the heck they were pushing but in this case I will ask you. :   What ya trying ta sell? ???   Ya ain't Calvin Cline so you need ta spell it out fur us dummy's a bit. :P   Make better use of your advertising dolor that way. ;)
 :D :D :D :D
Andy

[Mark M]

The topic said "Humor" so I'll try to get us back on track. My ancestors came from France and these zingers don't offend me so hopefully they won't offend any members of the forum.

Mark

 
> >"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your
> >accordion."
> >
> > --Norman Schwartzkopf
> >
> >
> >"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks
> >it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes."
> >
> > ---Mark Twain
> >
> >
> >
> >"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one
> >behind me."
> >
> > --- General George S. Patton
> >
> >
> >
> >"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it."
> >
> > ---- Marge Simpson
> >
> >
> >
> >"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure"
> >
> > ---Jacques Chirac, President of France
> >
> >
> >
> >"As far as France is concerned, you're right."
> >
> > ---Rush Limbaugh,
> >
> >
> >
> >"The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is
> >sitting in Paris sipping coffee."
> >
> > --- Regis Philbin
> >
> >
> >
> >"The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better,
> >on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in
> >Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than
> >sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know."
> >
> > --- P.J O'Rourke (1989)
> >
> >
> >
> > "You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the
> >1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the
> >face for it."
> >
> > ---John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona
> >
> >
> >
> >"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he
> >hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. He is French, people."
> >
> > --Conan O'Brien
> >
> >
> >
> >"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam
> >out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!"
> >
> >
> > ---Jay Leno
> >
> >
> >
> >"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris
> >under a German flag."
> >
> > --David Letterman
> >
> >
> >
> >Question: How many Frenchmen does it take to change a light bulb?
> >
> >Answer: One. He holds the bulb and all of Europe revolves around him.
> >
> >
> >
> >Next time there's a war in Europe,
> >
> > the loser HAS to keep France.

[Jeff]

Whats for sale? Nuthin. Just wanted to show my stars and stripes.

[J Beyer]

If any of you have noticed lately, the U.S. is pushing for a palestinian state.  After all, hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago the state of Israel was once called Palestine.  Just check a certain religous book.  Many references to it.

Ever notice how ungrateful many countries are after we give them humanitarian aide and helping them with military action to deal with oppressors?

JB

[biziedizie]

Just so you guys know,French Toast (Was named after it's creator, a Pennsylvania chef named French), French Fries ( Were invented in Belgium), French Kissing(Does come from France), French's mustard which is Canada's favourite mustard or that's what the bottle says! (Is made in Canada)  I'm stuck on the French tickler but there must be someone that knows where that came from! :D :D

      Steve

[Mark M]

A long time ago, Britain and France were at war.  During one battle,
the French captured an English major.  Taking the major to their
headquarters, the French general began to question him.

The French general asked, "Why do you English officers all wear red coats?
Don't you know the red material makes you easier targets for us to shoot at?"

In his bland English way, the major informed the general that the
reason English officers wear red coats is so that if they are shot,
the blood won't show and the men they are leading won't panic.

And that is why from that day to now all French Army officers wear brown pants.

[CHARLIE]

Indylan, I don't want to argue. We all have a right to how we think. As for the U.S. being behind in their dues, I believe it is the U.S. that has to pay the highest amount of dues even though we only get one vote.  

Why is it that when the U.N. does take action, it is the U.S. that supplies the bulk of the armed forces and the bulk of the armament.  Heck, in Kosovo, France was much closer yet it was the U.S. that had to do the job. Dang near depleted our missle supply, not to mention all the expensive planes we used and our highly trained pilots. Did we get reimbursed for all our costs?  I doubt it. I think the U.S. has given way more to the U.N. than they have gotten in return. Count what the U.S. has spent in armaments and manpower for the U.N. and I'll bet it's way more than the dues other countries have paid.

Another thing is foreign aide. I see the U.S. helping other countries when they have had disasters, but *DanG little help when cities in the U.S. get wiped out by hurricanes or tornados or earthquakes. Looks like a one way street to me. I don't think there is any nation in the world that has helped others as much as the U.S. has but we are always the first to catch hell from everyone.

Concerning Iraq.  The U.S. sat around like a sleeping giant and the terrorist murdered thousands of our people. Men, women and children. Well, we learned a lesson.  We aren't going to wait to be attacked again. Saddam would have supplied all the chemical agents and weapons he could to those that would do us harm, not to mention all the atrocities he had done to his own people. It was time for him to go.  France, Germany and Russian didn't want us in there because they were selling things to Iraq despite the U.N. Resolution. What makes me mad is that thousands of U.S. boys are buried in France. They died fighting for France's freedom. Oh how soon they forget! But this, I'll never forget!!


  

[Haytrader]

I got this E mail and thought ya'all would like it. Hope so anyway.

Navy Admirals
 A friend of mine is an officer in the naval reserve. A few
weeks ago, he was  attending a conference that included admirals in both the US and the French navies. At a cocktail reception, my friend found himself in a small group  that included an admiral from each of the two navies. The French admiral   started complaining that whereas Europeans learned many languages, Americans  only learned English. He then asked. "Why is it that we have to speak English
 in these conferences rather than you have to speak French?"
 Without even hesitating, the American admiral lied. "Maybe  it is because  we arranged it so that you did not have to learn to speak German."

  The group became silent.

[IndyIan]

Hi Charlie,
It's true the US pays the most at the UN, over 20% of the total budget I believe.  Is that fair?  I don't know, the US is the most wealthy nation on earth, you have lots of money to give I guess.  I would bet that if I dug around on the web I could find stats for UN contributions vs. GDP for the member countries, that the US gives a much smaller percentage of its GDP than most countries.  
As far as peace keeping goes, here's some numbers:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/peacekpg/data/pktp01.htm
Looks like Bangladesh contributed 6 times as many troops in 2001 to peace keeping as the US.  I guess that's what they have to give, soldiers instead of money.

There's no question that US does contribute alot to the UN and the UN would worse off without that contribution.  As a nation the US is doing pretty good.  By having the UN headquarters in NYC there is a lot of money pumped into the city just by the sheer numbers of diplomats there.  Also the US controls alot of things from behind the scenes so I think the US is getting its money's worth.

On the foreign aid issue, I can see your point about the US giving much more than it recieves.  I guess the difference as I see it is that when the US gives aid its to help people from dieing from starvation, etc and the country doesn't have the resources to help itself.  When a hurricane hits Miami no one dies after their house was flattened.  They check into a motel 6 or go to a shelter at a local school.  Most people in the world don't have a $1500 house let alone a $150000 one, so the fact that someone in the US has temporarily lost their's isn't really a cause to give money to.  They are preoccupied with survival.

As far Iraq goes, Saddam probably did help fund Al-qaida and he should be killed for that as well as for thousands of other deaths he has caused.  I imagine lots of people in Saudi Arabia gave lots of money to Al-qaida too...  Are we going to attack them next?

I think the main problem is that the US has messed around in the middle east too much in the past.  Supporting the country that would best suit the US economically instead of morally.   Helping Iran, then helping Iraq fight Iran, then Kuwait againist Iraq.  Then in the 1st gulf war, getting the Shia muslims in the south of Iraq to revolt againist Saddam thinking the US was going to help them and then the US leaves Iraq.  Maybe that's why US troops aren't immediately welcomed in Southern Iraqi towns?  Put yourself in their shoes and think about how the US has affected their lives in the last few decades.  Not real positive is it.

Maybe I'm an idealist but it would be nice if the US would stick around and set up a real democracy in Iraq with no economic strings attached.  Not make a satellite state but a nation that could decide its own foreign policy and who it wants to sell oil too and for what price.  Let Iraq plot its own course just because its the right thing to do, not specifically for any economic benefit.  I think if the world saw the US act out of goodwill on Iraq, world opinion of the US would improve and that would be a good thing.  
    

[C_Miller]

   6.5mm? what do they use that shoots 6.5mm?

[Tom]

It's that "damned if you do, damned if don't" criticism the U.S. continually gets from its "so called" allies and enemies that makes so many U.S. Citizens begin to believe in Isolationism.  I hear more and more frequently from citizens on the street, "we should just pull the plug on foreign aid and stop being concerned with other countries problems with Human Rights.  Nobody appreciates it anyway.  All they're interested in is complaining about our doing something wrong."

Who knows, perhaps one day we'll get a belly full of it. >:(

[CHARLIE]

- the US is the most wealthy nation on earth, you have lots of money
- There's no question that US does contribute alot to the UN and the UN would worse off without that contribution.  As a nation the US is doing pretty good.
- When a hurricane hits Miami no one dies after their house was flattened.  They check into a motel 6 or go to a shelter at a local school.  Most people in the world don't have a $1500 house let alone a $150000 one, so the fact that someone in the US has temporarily lost their's isn't really a cause to give money to.
- Looks like Bangladesh contributed 6 times as many troops in 2001 to peace keeping as the US.  I guess that's what they have to give, soldiers instead of money.

Indylan, your view of the U.S. comes across loud and clear. I think others in the world are just as misinformed.  We are fortunate in that we have good farmers and we share our wealth of food with the rest of the world. As far as money, maybe you haven't been reading how far in dept the U.S. is.  Also, it is interesting to know that people that are perceived to be rich should not receive help when they are in a disaster. I'll try and remember that. Only poor people need help during a disaster. Why, rich people in the U.S. can just go to the nearest Motel 6. Don't need any assistance 'cause they are rich. Believe it that there are many poor in the U.S.  Many people with the same income as you make or less, lost their homes in Hurricanes, floods and earthquakes. Also, Bangladesh may have supplied troops but there seems to be an imbalance in who supplies the bulk of the fighter planes, bombs, missles and ammunition and are still expected to pay 20% of the dues. Thank you for clearing all this up for me. :  

[Bro. Noble]

Well, Charlie it's hard to figger how some people figger if indeed they do figger.

Now I'm not one to butt into someone else's disagreement but I have this friend , Casper, that asked me to report his feelings on a couple of things.

Casper has kind of an opinion that anyone who doesn't support the US of A at the present time is supporting Saddam.  That's about the only thing that Peter Arnett and Casper agree on.

Casper does agree with Indylan, however------------------in posts #8 and #14 where he says he probably shouldn't say anything  and where he says he doesn't know much about it.

Noble

[Mosquito_Swatter]

It's good to see that nobody in this forum gets too emotional about these things  (I can't figure out how you put those smiley's in).

I wonder how different this all might look if the USA were under attack by another country.  Would we look to the UN for help or would we go it alone?

[DanG]

M_S, just click on the smiley of yer choosin' right above where you're typin' as you reply.

That's a good thought, but I think it would be over before the UN even found out about it. ;D   Clinton woulda probably whined to the UN, but Dubya would just kick some ass, then tell the UN that they are "irrelevant".

[ADfields]

Indylan, you sound like one of the "all the U.S. wants is the oil" bunch.   Do you understand what this is costing and has cost us to deal with this mess?   The price tag on 1 Tomahawk is over $33,000,000 and how many have we spent?   Over 150 last I herd so $4,950,000,000 worth of Tomahawks so far and that don't even start on all the other bombs, tanks, aircraft and PEOPLE!!   Trillions and trillions of dollars this is costing us, even without the fine young men that are coming home in body bags.    Now think on just how much oil we could buy from other parts of the world with that kind of cash, now remember we will STILL be required to pay market price after the war to get Iraqi oil!!   Now, put that in your pipe and smoke on is some then tell me how it is that we will profit off the oil, or will get anything other then having a little less fear of another 9/11/01?
Andy

BTW: Whats the "Are we going to attack them next?" part?   I did not think you lived under the stars and stripes or the union jack and it don't sound like you yourself are on our side so what "we" are you speaking of?   But I would say if they are a real and present danger, YOU BET YOUR BOOTS!!

[bull]

 GO USA!!!!!
     Somebody said they were glad nobody gets emmotional
 around here!!! Well I am, im kinda pi$$ed off....  Sounds like someone is a media junkie and is only listening to what they are being told by all the knuckle heads from the opinionated news media.....    Green Carder Pete the news man put his foot in his mouth and ran home !!!   My grandmother said if you haven't got a good thing to say then maybe it would be a good thing to keep ones mouth shut. The other guy may have a fist to put where you have already put your foot and then he may help you out by putting your foot where he would like to put his boot Uppa Ua$$ !!!!    My Family hails from Nova Scotia & Quebec so Im not dumping on Canadians just those who need to get the facts straight and open the educational GAP  :P  just being blunt / no fight desired !!

[biziedizie]

Hi guys I've been working downtown 15 stories up and we're right above a protest camp. I see these people everyday complaining and trying to convince everyone that the war is bad and that it should stop. The one thing that I notice about these dead beats is that none of them have jobs and it seems like they just want to stir up s*** as they have nothing better to do!
  They were chanting yesterday about the U.N and saying that the States didn't listen. I shake my head at these idiots standing around trying to make things change! I was waiting for the crowd to move and I got talking to a cop and he told me that maybe if the U.N stayed the hell out of things then maybe the States could do what they had to do and get the respect that they deserved and I had to agree with him!
  U.S.A is a very big and strong country and it's good that there keeping the world in order and it sucks that there are people that have to whine and make them look bad but that's just part of things.
  OK I'm stopping here before I really get p***ed off!

P.S did the French forget about the past??

  Steve

[OneWithWood]

Somehow this discussion, or lack thereof, reminds me of the time a few of our members attempted to reason with the greenies.  As you may recall one of the observations was that folks on one side of the issue never really discussed the issue but simply came back with gross generalities and one liners.  In my very humble opinion those roles have become somewhat reversed with this thread.  
I mean no disrespect to anyone here as I know you all to be intelligent individuals but please step back from the rhetoric a bit and lose some of the animosity.
Let us not lose sight of all we do have in common.

[IndyIan]

Well, maybe I should quit while I'm only this unpopular...  

Most of you raised some good points, all I'm trying to do is get the other side of the story out.  I won't claim everything I say is a fact.  I believe it to be true but if someone can find some information that discounts what I'm saying please let me know.

Charlie, I know there are many poor people in the US, my point was that the US has the ability to help itself, many countries don't.  Many people in Canada helped US travellers stranded after Sept.11,  they were all glad to do it, that's how they could best help the US at the time.  No one charged the "rich americans" to stay in their house.  
I don't think any industrialized country receives anywhere near the amount aid that it gives out.  As a percentage of GDP the US is definetly not #1 in giving foreign aid.  Look it up.  I'm sure the people recieving aid from the US are very grateful even though you might not hear about it.

Noble, I'm not for Saddam and I'm not against the US.  There are just some things that the lone super power could do a bit better.  If the average person in the US would look beyond what the the major US TV networks present as the news I think the US government would do less things that shift world opinion against the US.  Totally unthinking patriotism doesn't do any country any favors.  

ADfields, I do have some idea what the war is costing the US.  You are right that it makes no sense economically as a nation to fight this war for oil.  Where do you think all this money is going though?  There are alot of people in the military industry getting very rich right now and some of them very close to Mr. Bush.  I hope it is just a coincidence...   I do think that questions like this should be raised even though they sound unpatriotic.  Lots of people are getting killed and it should be for the right reasons.  I think there are better and cheaper ways to reduce the possiblity of terrorism.  A LOT of things can be done with 100's of billions of dollars, war is just the most destructive of them.

That said, I sincerly hope that the US and UK can finish this war quickly and get Saddam and inhuman followers out.  Hopefully the war in Iraq will turn out to be a good thing and the US follows through with giving the Iraqi people their freedom to live how they want, not how the US or the west thinks they should.  If this doesn't happen I hope US citizens get after the US government and find out why, make them accountable for their descions.

In summary, I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad about being a US citizen, the US is a great country founded on honourable and excellent concepts.  Canadians and the Canadian government could do many, many things better as well.  It's just that the US has such a greater impact on world that you should take care and think about the issues independently.  It's one of the prices of freedom and democracy, if people don't do their homework, do some research into the issues, politicians will take advantage of that.  

This is all I've got to say, feel free to tell me where I'm wrong, I'm certainly no expert in international affairs but this is what I've come up with after doing some thinking.  I hope this gets you thinking as well.

Thanks for your time,
Ian

[hawby]

Indylan,

You said, "Maybe I'm an idealist but it would be nice if the US would stick around and set up a real democracy in Iraq with no economic strings attached.  Not make a satellite state but a nation that could decide its own foreign policy...."

You mean like we did in Japan, France, Germany, Korea, Bosnia, Kosovo, Italy, ....Ad Infinitum.

Let's be real. America has NEVER been Imperialist. If we had been, would we have bothered with NAFTA? We woukld have just sent in the Coast Guard.

I have read several times a real nice letter from a Canadian soul that understood the generosity and spirit of the American people. I wish I could put my hands on it now. It would remind you of the things that we Americans have sacrificed for other less fortunate souls in the world.

It is just frustrating that our generosity is larger and longer lasting than the memories of those that we have helped in times of crisis. I doubt that will ever change. We Americans know that it is that charity and generosity that have led to God continuing to bestow His blessings upon this country. That is the lesson that others should learn.

Another lesson though is that we will only stand by so long and allow a dictator to abuse his power and his people. Sadam is getting that lesson.... right now.

Hawby

[Bro. Noble]

Indylan,

I didn't mean to imply that you favor Saddam.  The problem is that at the present time,  anyone who protests the war, or criticizes our government is encouraging Saddam's supporters.  It costs lives of our servicemen as well as Iraqies by prolonging the fighting.

It's really a bad time to bash the US,  and this isn't a good place to do it.

Noble

[Mark M]

Here's something someone sent me today. I really like all this patriotic stuff, it makes me feel good!  
This woman is OK in my book, even though she ain't one of us dam yankees ;)

Mark




  Alabama State Auditor Beth Chapman.
  Attached is a copy of Mrs. Chapman's speech, which resulted in five
  standing ovations, tremendous applause and an encore. It's a short read
  and well worth it.

  Stand Up for America Rally Speech
  By: Beth Chapman

  I'm here tonight because men and women of the United States military
  have given their lives for my freedom. I am not here tonight because
  Sheryl Crowe, Rosie O'Donnell, Martin Sheen, George Clooney, Jane Fonda
  or Phil Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me.

  If my memory serves me correctly, it was not movie stars or musicians,
  but the United States Military who fought on the shores of Iwo Jima, the
  jungles of Vietnam, and the beaches of Normandy. Tonight, I say we should
  support the President of the United States and the U.S. Military and tell
  the liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals
  to go make their movies and music and whine somewhere else.

  After all, if they lived in Iraq, they wouldn't be allowed the freedom
  of speech they're being given here today. Ironically, they would be put
  to death at the hands of Sadaam Husssein or Osama Bin Laden. I want to
  know how the very people who are against war because of the loss of life,
  can possibly be the same
  people who are for abortion? They are the same people who are for animal
  rights but against the rights of the unborn. The movie stars say they want to
  go to Iraq and serve as "human shields" for the Iraqis. I say let them buy
  a one-way ticket and go.

  No one likes war. I hate war! But the one thing I hate more is the fact
  that this country has been forced into war-innocent people have lost
  their lives - - and there but for the grace of God, it could have been my
  brother, my husband, or even worse my own son.

  On December 7, 1941, there are no records of movie stars treading the
  blazing waters of Pearl Harbor.

  On September 11, 2001; there are no photos of movie stars standing as
  "human shields" against the debris and falling bodies ascending from the
  World Trade Center. There were only policemen and firemen - -underpaid
  civil servants who gave their all with nothing expected in return.

  When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie stars guarding the
  ship - - where were the human shields then?

  If America's movie stars want to be human shields, let them shield the
  gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York City, let them shield
  the lives of the children of North Birmingham whose mothers lay them down
  to sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from stray bullets.

  If they want to be human shields, I say let them shield the men and
  women of honesty and integrity that epitomizes courage and embody the
  spirit of freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United States
  Military. Those are the people who have earned and deserve shielding!

  Throughout the course of history, this country has remained free, not
  because of movie stars and liberal activists, but because of brave men
  and women who hated war too. However, they lay down their lives so that
  we all may live in freedom. After all - "What greater love hath no man,
  that he lay down his life for his friend," or in this case a country.

  We should give our military honor and acknowledgment and not let
  their lives be in vain. If you want to see true human shields, walk
  through Arlington Cemetery.  There lie human shields, heroes, and the
  BRAVE Americans who didn't get on television and talk about being a human
  shield - they were human shields.

  I thank God tonight for freedom - - those who bought and paid for it
  with their lives in the past - - those who will protect it in the present
  and defend it in the future.

  America has remained silent too long! God-fearing people have remained
  silent too long!

  We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to God for guidance
  and the strength and courage to sustain us throughout whatever the future
  may hold.

  After the tragic events of Sept. 11th, my then eleven -year-old son
  said terrorism is a war against them and us and if you're not one of us,
  then you're one of them.

  So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let us stand proud,
  and let us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and support for
  the President, our troops and their families and our country.

  May God bless America, the land of the free, the home of the brave and
  the greatest country on the face of this earth!

[Mark M]

One More - I don't know who wrote this but it reminds me of my mom.


To nobody's surprise there were protestors today in DC, they attempted to
disrupt the metro system and block the Key Bridge, a leading artery into DC
from Northern Virginia. I got hosed twice because I come in from NoVA on the
metro and it is raining hard which makes traffic worse any way. My commute
was long and arduous and only caused further resentment for protestors (but
that isn't the point of this thread). Anyway, I'll get to the point.
 
I got off the train in Rosslyn because I had to use the bathroom and the
train was moving quite slowly. When I was getting back on the train, there
were protestors on the train platform handing out pamphlets on the evils of
America. I politely declined to take one. An elderly woman was behind me
getting off the escalator and a young (20ish) female protestor offered her a
pamphlet, which she politely declined. The young protestor put her hand on
the old woman's shoulder as a gesture of friendship and in a very soft voice
said, "Ma'am, don't you care about the children of Iraq?" The old woman
looked up at her and said, "Honey, my first husband died in France during
World War II so you could have the right to stand here and bad mouth your
country. And if you touch me again, I'll stick this umbrella up your a$$ and
open it."              
 
I'm glad to report that loud applause broke out among the onlookers and the
young protestor was at a total loss for words.

[swampwhiteoak]

I've heard people say or imply that the French don't remember the past, how we fought for them, ect.  Perhaps we forget that if not for the French there might not be a USA or it would have taken a different form at a different time.  If I recall my history correctly part of the reason for the French revolution was the amount of debt France had collected from fighting the British for years including a substainsal sums and manpower in the Revolutionary war.  

Of course I also think the current prime minister of France is at best a totalitarian regime sympathizer and the current population residing there is blinded from the truths of the situation by irrational jealousy towards the US.  (And I won't be buying any more Michelin's). But I digress.

Charlie you are correct that the US gives much more money to the UN than any other country.  Indylan is correct that we aren't always too good about paying our bill and as a percentage of GDP our share is less than some other countries.  I think we still owe something in the neighborhood of 800 mil.  On the other hand I'm not so sure it's a bad thing given that this is the same organization that puts countries like Libya and Iran on human rights committees.

On the whole terrorist argument, I am inclined to agree with Indylan.  I don't think this is going to have any measureable impact on islamist terrorists.  The only training camp in Iraq is in the Kurdish territory.  Although Saddam would probably like nothing more than to hand some WMD to someone that would use it on us, I think the threat is far more likely to come from former russian republics.  Nonetheless, I support the Iraq war because it will save lives.  However many innocent people die in this war, it does not compare to the number that would die under continued sanctions.

As for european nations calling us imperalistic - pot meet kettle.  And that's putting it nicely.

Abolishing Baathism from Iraq after this is all done is going to be a monumental task.  I would like to think we have the will to get it done right, time will tell though.

I see I have already written a small chapter, so I will shut up now and get back to writing some management plans.

[Haytrader]

Title of this thread says humor.
I thought this would fit.

http://www.bantv.com/vincevance/bomb_iraq.swf

[ADfields]

 

[biziedizie]

Now that's funny! :D :D

  Steve

[Mark M]

IRAQI   TV GUIDE

  SUNDAY
  0800 - My 33 Sons
  0830 - Saddam Knows  Best
  0900 - I Dream of Mohammed
  0930 - Let's Mecca  Deal
  1000 - The Kabul Hillbillies

  MONDAY
  0800 - Husseinfeld
  0900 - Mad About Everything
  0930 - Monday  Night Stoning
  1000 - Win Bin Laden's Money
  1030 - Allah  McBeal

  TUESDAY
  0800 - Wheel of Poverty
  0830 - The Price is Right if Saddam Says it's Right
  0900 - Children are Forbidden from Saying  the
                 Darndest Things
  0930 - Hussein's Wackiest Public Execution Bloopers
  1000 - Buffy the Yankee Imperialist Dog Slayer

  WEDNESDAY
  0800 - Beat the Press
  0830 - When Kurds  Attack
  0900 - Two Guys, A Girl, and a Pita Bread
  0930 - Just  Shoot Everyone
  1000 - Veilwatch

  THURSDAY
  0800 - Fatima Loves Chatchi
  0830 - M*U*S*T*A*S*H
  0900 - Veronica's Closet Full of Long,  Black,
                 Shapeless Dresses and Veils
  0930 - Married with 139 Children
  1000 - Eye for an Eye Witness News


  FRIDAY
  0800 - Judge Saddam
  0830 - Suddenly Sanctions
  0900 - Who Wants to Marry a  Terrorist Millionaire?
  0930 - Cave and Garden Television
  1000 - No-Witness News

  SATURDAY
  0800 - Spongebob  Squareturban
  0830 - Who's Koran Is It Anyway?
  0900 - Teletalibans
  0930 - Camel 54, Where are

[SW_IOWA_SAWYER]

I would not normally say anything on such a subject. But.. I think the issue with Iraq involves a bigger plan then getting rid of Saddam. It is part of a plan to change the face of the Arab world. The only cure for terrorism is to change the Middle East and allow them to taste freedom instead of looking at the US as the source of the world's problems. The goverments in most of those countries deflect the population's anger at us instead of at them. Look at who is funding all the radical Islamic schools and funding the terrorists. It is a much bigger issue then just Iraq.
The main problem in the Middle East is they don't have enough tree's  to cut into lumber so folks have to much time on thier hands. ;)

[L. Wakefield]

   Way back (I mean WAY back)- like when I first had DOS- so maybe about 94 or 95- some of the nurses and the docs were going down to Haiti to help the folks there. One of the nurses referred to Haitian 'slaves' in the Dominican Repuiblic. (I think it was that way around). I objected because I didn't think there were slaves anywhere.

   So this ultimately led to my doing a primitive search for documentation on human rights. I had an inkling that the UN and the world court were the ultimate players in this arena.And so I read a lot of stuff- the webrefs are buried 5 computers back, although I think somewhere I have a lot of hard copy I printed out on it. If I have time I'll do the search again.

   It was an eye-opener. I had always thought the USA was indeed front and center in leading the firght for freedom. But if you look at the actual agreements in the UN files, and who signed them- you find the US missing on a lot of it.

   It's like reading rainbow, folks- remember Levar Burton?- 'don't take my word for it- read it yourself'.

   All the emotion on one side or the other doesn't change fact.

   I like the extension of the motto- 'My country right or wrong'. That was as far as it went, the first time it was written.

   I don't buy into it that way.

   But someone modified it- 'My country, right or wrong. If right, to be kept right. if wrong, to be put right'.

   Which of these statements is closer to how you want your country to act? Which is closer to how you run your life? Which is a statement of intent which you would like your neighbor to make concerning his or her behavior toward you?

   We ALL need to make ongoing assessments of whether we are acting right or wrong. Countries need to do the same.

   One of my husband's less attractive statements that he makes from time to time about one of his friends is 'He's a businessman'. I dug and delved and come to the conclusion that what he means by that is pretty nasty at times. Decisions made 'for business reasons' can be totally reprehensible if they are not made from an ethical basis.

   You may have read the time magazine article where some former statesman was quoted on a South American (I think) head of state and how come we were doing business with him. The statement was 'He may be a son of a b*****, but By God he's OUR son of a B*****'.

   Expediency has led us to having former allies such as Osama Bin Laden. Shake the dice enough times and you will see most of the players in arrangements that are useful at one time and decried at another time. As they say- 'politics make strange bedfellows'

   Where do you stand on this? Jacques Chirac surely has MANY agendas for his actions. Some of them may actually be highly ethical. Some of them are SURELY economic.

  And the same is true of 'us'.

   God forbid that I should ever be in charge, because my agenda is 'other'. I look at the land as a garden, and I see all this activity on all sides as an offense to the land. The production, sales, and planting of land mines is a ruinous activity. It makes it impossible to farm- France is still dealing with this consequence- so is Afghanistan- and the mistake is being repeated in Iraq.

   There are no players with clean hands. And the innocent suffer. When will we learn another way?

   Jeff, there is little humor in this.  lw

[L. Wakefield]

   Yeah, I'm not a bit surprised. I'd seen the envelope with the hardcopy in it less than a month ago when I was scouring the house for my resume.. shoulda known that it would come up as a topic again.

   The website has changed, but the material is still online. It is entitled 'Common rights and expectations', and is a list of the primary international treaties protecting 'the rights of all people'. It lists who signed, and with what reservations. It contains the text of the International Bill of Human Rights (The United Nations text)

   Is this irrelevant? Is there any political force on earth that in justice can make this irrelevant? I suggest you read for yourself and decide for yourself.

   The world is a big place, and there is a lot of inhumanity in it. Effective change starts with statements of principle, and goes on with ethical and effective actions.

   Oh yeah- the website- almost forgot  :  - www.nightslantern.ca/01.htm .

   Good reading.   lw

[hawby]

L.,
"Slavery" exists in many countries throughout the World. In fact, do not be too surprised if some young, blue eyed, blonde teenagers are found in some remote jail, palace, chamber of Iraq. A friend of mine spent a few years undercover in the Seattle area. Her case was trying to find what was happeing to young girls and boys that were just "disappearing." You know the ones that are on trucks, milk cartons, etc....

Well, she stayed with it as long as her sanity would hold out. The majority were of course murdered by serial pedophiles. Some though were "sold" into white slavery markets in Asia, the Middle East, and Europe.

The part that finally got her to the point of nearly losing her mind was that they had proof of where a couple had gone, and how. Due to the fact that someone with diplomatic priviliges was involved, the investigation was stuffed.

I agree with your comment" ....right or wrong, ...make right what is wrong." Thank God we have a President that also believes in that principle. I pray that he has the strength, courage, wisdom, and backing of the people to finish what has only been started. Sadaam is only the tip of the evil that spawned 9/11.

We can show cowardice, ie. the losers that blocked the pier where military supplies were being loaded. Or, we can standu. Focus our attention on what is right. Make the commitment to do what is right. Continue to sacrifice our time, finances, lives, whatever it takes to see to it that the future generations of this country, and any other that wants to believe that we are ALL created equal; enjoy the God given right of Freedom.

We make our destiny, with the blessings, and the mercy of our Heavenly Father. We can choose to be complacent, AND subserviant, or we can choose to be assertive of our God given ability to change those things that we CAN change. Appeasement of evil, will beget more evil.

Thank God for the courage of our troops, and our current President. I for one am grateful for being a Free American, and for living in a country that will take the right step to free others that were in slavery.

Sorry for the length.... I got caught up in the emotion of seeing those Iraqis celebrate something that my sons ans daughters take for granted.

Hawby

[L. Wakefield]

The part that finally got her to the point of nearly losing her mind was that they had proof of where a couple had gone, and how. Due to the fact that someone with diplomatic priviliges was involved, the investigation was stuffed.

   It takes a LOT of courage- and an iron-clad system of guarantees of legal protection- to hold powerful individuals to be accountable for their actions. I will say, if it were not for the Constitution and those upholding it, I might never even have dreamed of the freedom I have now. It is the most precious of gifts, and to have a system where it is a RIGHT- is something that needs protection from any who would challenge it.  lw