iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Rot resistant lumber...

Started by Ever Green, July 16, 2007, 07:51:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ever Green

I have a customer who would like me to build him 4 gardens.  All raised above ground. 
He would like the lumber to be 10 -12" in width and around 1 to 1-1/2" thick.  I suggested larch but may not be able to provide a log big enough to get me 10-12".  He thought red oak might be good, but I don't know my availability.  What I do know is, that around here hemlock is big and I can get it sawed any way I want, just don't know how well it would hold up to garden use.  Moist damp soil, bacteria and such.  He would like to get about 10 years or so out of it....I get my lumber from a friends family...we usually cut it and them get the woodmizer out and saw lumber....any thoughts...I'm just south of Buffalo NY  (14033)

Thanks,
Vince
Vince

Tom

My initial thought is for you to sell him on the idea of a really PC Green garden would allow the boards used for the raised beds to rot and be consumed in the garden for food and dirt enhancement.  If you can do that, any wood will work. 

While 12" boards would look nice, two 6" boards, built as a bulkhead with bracing posts on the outside will look good too.

The gardens would have to be designed and constructed such that replaced boards could be buried in the soil.

Ever Green

just spoke with my forester friend he suggested white oak, and he has a lot of it.  I can go and cut a tree for my customer, and he will use the rest of the lumber for various projects...so the tree gets completely used...top and all....
Vince

dancan

sawmills around here don't want hemlock so we can get it cheap and select it is a good choice .
we are just getting ready to saw some up to make a wharf , a couple of rafts and some raised planters .

Ron Wenrich

The most rot resistant in your area is probably black locust.  You might be challenged to get 10-12" wide boards, but I have sawn some that big.  White oak is a good alternative, but not nearly as rot resistant.

Other supposedly rot resistant species in your area include:  catalpa, black cherry, osage orange (hedge apple), sassafras, black walnut, and any type of cedar. 

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Don P

Kind of in the same vein Tom was talking about. If I can I try to use wood for its best and highest use. Good locust is worthy lumber and I don't get much, same with good white oak. We do get lots of shaky garden and form boards, doty heart landscape stair timbers, funky posts... and kindling out the wazoo  :D.

And 2 good boards.

We've hauled 2 truckloads of rocks up since yesterday for the raised beds around the house. Thats the long term solution. My locust logs are about gone after almost 20 years.

ID4ster

You don't want to use red oak. It has an open pore structure and will rot pretty quickly in contact with the ground. White oak will work if its seasoned and should be available without too much trouble. You may want to look up one of the Amishman in the area that owns a sawmill and see if they can either cut some white oak for you or some hemlock if you are dead set on 12" wide boards. Hemlock won't last as long  but you can get it cheap, especially in the southern tier, and you can get the wider widths. You could also get it cut in 6/4 or 8/4 so that it willl last even longer. Black locust is a good choice but you'll have to fight the grape vineyard folks for it.
Bob Hassoldt
Seven Ridges Forestry
Kendrick, Idaho
Want to improve your woodlot the fastest way? Start thinning, believe me it needs it.

TexasTimbers

Didn't know osage grew that far north.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Dodgy Loner

White oak ought to be just fine for that sort of thing.  You wouldn't want to use walnut - although it's certainly rot-resistant it also contains juglone, which is a potent herbicide!  Eastern hemlock is one of the more rot-resistant conifers that you have up there, probably a notch below larch.  It would be a good idea to use 8/4 lumber if you decide to go with hemlock, because it will rot more quickly than white oak.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

beenthere

Dodgy Loner
You're thinking that walnut lumber used as a flower bed border will have a negative affect on the growth of the flowers?   ???

I can understand trying to grow flowers under the drip line of a growing black walnut crown having a negative affect, but wouldn't think it would transfer such results from the wood into the soil. Interested to know more about how this happens.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WDH

I bet that walnut lumber used to frame the beds might be OK since the juglone would not leach too quickly into the soil.  However, walnut sawdust is bad news in a garden or as a mulch because the surface area available for leaching the juglone from the wood is much greater.  I agree with DL that walnut would not be a good choice though.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Ron Wenrich

You might want to read up on juglone:

http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/hortcult/fruits/blkwalnt.htm

Here's a quote on juglone source:

"The largest concentrations of juglone and hydrojuglone (converted to juglone by sensitive plants) occur in the walnut's buds, nut hulls, and roots. However, leaves and stems do contain a smaller quantity. Juglone is only poorly soluble in water and thus does not move very far in the soil."

I doubt if walnut boards pose that much of a problem, if someone was dead set to use them.  I just reported on the rot resistance.

As for osage orange, I know it grows in my area, but it is not natural.  Years ago it was planted in hedge rows.  I have seen a few large ones, but they are a rarity.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ever Green

I'll clear things up a bit...these gardens will be vegetable.  I think white oak has taken the prize.  My forester friend has plenty standing so I can choose the "right " tree...thanks 2 all for the reply's
Vince

Thank You Sponsors!