Emergency heat

[Don_Papenburg]

I like the idea of a propane heater because the fuel does not turn to varnish in a month or so like gasoline .  

[DanG]

Great point, Don.  We already have that problem with the generator.  They have no use for it other than for emergency power, so the gas can get rather stale.  They bought the genset in a panic when it looked like Hurricane Ike was coming here.  As it stands now, I put enough gas in it to hold them until I can get there to fill it up.  I do need to put some stabilizer in it though.  How long will that extend the shelf life of gasoline, anyway?  I'm thinking I need to drain it periodically and use it in the car before it goes bad.

[isawlogs]

 
DanG
      I have put stabilizer in my snowmobile in the spring and started her up and drove her come the next winter ...  Do the same with the outbord , might not be the thing to do but works for me .  I never really stopped to look at the label far enough to see if they do word it out how long it is good for .  : :P

[Don_Papenburg]

I have had it work a year later and also had the gas go bad in three months with the Stabil.  I think it depends on how good the gas is that you bought .

[tyb525]

My dad bought a generator from a surplus supply catalog. We run it off the front pto on our 20 hp simplicity law tractor. Not sure about wattage, but it will run everything in the house. The only that challenges it is the electric stove, or running the water heater and well pump at the same time. It will run all lights and everything else. A tank of gas lasts several hours at least.

Several years ago we had a terrible ice storm. We were out of power for a week. We ran the generator for several hours a day, in order to keep food frozen, and so we could run water. We could've run it all day though.

[scsmith42]

Dang, probably 9 months with premium gas and Stabil.

A larger, "tri-fuel" or LPG generator is probably the best option.  Do they have natural gas, or just propane?  Either will work.

I have a 1965 vintage Onan 5500 watt propane generator with an automatic transfer switch backing up the critical outlets in our house.  Our furnace is LPG, so the generator will run the furnace fan, bathroom lights, well pump, refridgerator, microwave, and the lights / ceiling fan in our bedroom.  Also the TV. 

If their HVAC system is fairly old, one option may be to replace it with new system that uses LPG for the furnace.  The AC compressor efficiencies have gotten so high that the ROI is usually just a few years, and this would let you keep your existing generator.

Scott

[DanG]

I've been running it for a little while every couple of weeks to keep the carb from gumming up, and to keep the battery up.  What do y'all think if I just fill the thing up, then drain it into the car every couple of months?  That would give us about 10 hours of run time before somebody has to come refuel the thing.

Scott, that sounds like a good setup, but replacing major systems isn't in the budget.  The home and all systems are only 6 years old, and they don't have propane at all.  It is all electric.  Any auxiliary heat beyond the two space heaters will have to be independently powered.  So far, the gas logs in the fireplace seem to be winning out.  We have enough 20lb bottles in the family to keep them going for a while.

[sawguy21]

That is really the best setup for emergency use. Starts up and shuts off automatically, no worries about bad fuel and it isolates the standby and line systems for safety. The only maintenance is oil changes and air filters. The new ones are quieter and have a battery minder.

[Rocky_J]

DanG, the Sta-Bil in the fuel would be a wise and inexpensive addition. I recently pulled out my generator that hasn't been run since the '04 hurricanes. I wanted to fire it up and make sure it was good to go. It fired up and ran on 3.5 year old gas just fine, thanks to the Sta-Bil. I still drained it and replaced it with fresh fuel (and more Sta-Bil). Consider it cheap insurance if you forget to replace the fuel every few months.

[Raider Bill]

Dang,
I put a propane log kit in my florida fireplace using a 20# tank. The 20 #er didn't allow enough flow, iced up so I connected it to the main tank and it works good. It is ventless.
Just a thought.

[Dale Hatfield]

I vote for the inferred propane heaters instead of gas log or blue flame LP heaters.
I have both  and like the inferred better .
Id say for 300 you could buy the heater and a 80 lb bottle

[old joe]

DanG,  I use propane for back up.  Central Al is colder than N. Fla.  I also have an open floor plan and a large set of unvented gas logs can easily heat the  open space.  I  would not use them in a closed room like a bedroom.  No need  to mess with them as they can be thermostatically controlled. 100 gal. tank will last a long time.        Joe

[Jeff]

The L.P, heater that I mentioned is such a simple solution. We get zero fumes and has proven itself over the years. It sets sometimes for months on end without use, then is ready to go within moments. It would excel in an open floor plan. Anything using a generator is going to require maintenance for at least the generator end of things. Our heater just hangs there in wait for the times we need it. The only thing you need to make sure of is that you have propane hooked to it, which does not require any stabilization.

[DanG]

I guess it's time to admit to my ignorance on this subject.  I confess that I've always turned up my nose at gas logs, 'cause I felt that they were just a waste of a good fireplace. : :D  As a result, I don't know much about them.  My main question is, do they do anything to "enhance" the heat given off by the flame, like an infrared heater does?  In other words, is there any advantage beyond aesthetics, to having the logs in there above just sticking the fish cooker in there? : ;)

I'm really leaning more and more toward the gas logs idea, mostly because it would not only provide the needed backup, but would be considered an asset when the time comes to sell the place.   I would just have to recruit a little financial assistance from my Siblings.  I ain't gonna broach this subject to my Folks yet, since this sort of thing can turn into an obsession most quick when they are approaching their nineties. :D

Jeff, I took a good look at the link you provided, and I like those heaters.  In fact, I may get one of the smaller ones for myself.  Believe me, they're running a close second to the gas logs in the fireplace idea.  The only problem I can see with the heaters is the aesthetic challenge.  Ya see, my Mom waited for a whole lot of years to have what she considers a nice attractive home, and she ain't gonna want something that doesn't "fit in."  I've got all sorts of ideas circulating in my cranial vacuum right now, and none of them have been entirely eliminated.  The simplest and cheapest of those ideas is to just take a pile of firewood over there for emergency use only, and hoping for the best.  The fireplace is one of the Heatalator types with glass doors, and lined with firebrick, so we might could get away with that in a pinch.  Another cheap option I've thought of is to just afix some sort of gas burner in there, and mask it with a little pile of firewood.  All we'd have to do to activate it, is pull the wood out and stick a match to the burner.

One thing is for sure;  If they get into a situation where any of these measures are necessary, I or one of my Siblings will be moving in with them for the duration of the problem. ;)

[Jeff]

DanG, if aesthetics are an issue, the heaters weigh next to nothing and can be stowed away by unhooking the gas line and then either lifting the heater from the two screws it takes to hang it on the wall, or using the free standing optional legs that it comes with. You could install the gas line with a shut off in an inconspicuous location like we did, then have the heater connect to that with a quick disconnect.

[york]

Hi all,

I have friends that live on Blue hill,above Sunbury,pa-they have the same heater that Jeff talks about-they have a small cabin type house,with wood heater as main-but they like the wall hung propane heaters so much,they are becoming the main source of heat....Bert

[beenthere]

.................
One thing is for sure;  If they get into a situation where any of these measures are necessary, I or one of my Siblings will be moving in with them for the duration of the problem. ;)

DanG
Isn't that threat enough for them to decide in favor of the wall-hanging heater, considering the aesthetics and all......

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Larry]

I also have a heater similar to what Jeff linked to.  I think it would be ideal as backup heat.  They have a thermostat so iffen ya got the pilot lit the heater will come on when the house temperature drops.  Would be quite nice if power goes out bout bedtime...your folks will still wake up to a somewhat warm house in the morning. 

Use the generator to keep the beer cool in the fridge and the TV on football games.  I just don't have a lot of confidence in generators for supplying heat.  Having said that my generator kept my folks in there home during the Kansas City ice storm of 02.  Power out 10 days and mom was on kidney dialysis.

[isawlogs]

 Seeing as every body else has given his 2¢ here , might as well jump in two .  ;D
I have a generator set up outside in its own little cabane , its a 5500 watts and it powers the house here when power goes out .. yes I wrote when .... We live at the end of the road , and the end of the line 14 poles from the neighbour , when power goes out in a storm , ya can bet we are not on the first to be serviced list .
  The generator powers the fridge, the 2 freezers, the water pump, a light in each room , a few plugs and the furnace fan .
  The furnace is a wood/electric/heat pump combo , when out of power we only use the wood once the generator is going . the generator has its own panel wich is run off the main panel , one must shut the incoming power from hydro breaker and connect the generator breaker.
   
    I would get the propane heater that Jeff has in the cabine , and keep the generator for the lights and radio/tv , fridge /freezer and a few fans ... Well ya never know , it aint always cold out when power goes ... I would not touch the fire place , it can always be used to make a fire and cook on . one needs to eat at one point . Well I know I would be using it to make me some food ...  ;D

[dolittle]

Instead of installing a few outlets around to plug some items in why not install a small transfer switch or a Gen-Tran (brand name).  This connects to the generator and is wired into the breaker box and powers up predetermined circuits like the ceiling paddle fans to bring down heat, microwave for food or instant coffee.  The small systems have 6 circuits and all you do is move the toggle switch and it connected.  They are very easy to connect up.

[old joe]

DanG   My gas logs sit in an existing fireplace.
It doesn't have glass doors but I would guess you could leave them open.
Your folks will like the way they look.
You will like the ease of install.
Good luck.
Joe

[beenthere]

Just follow the safety procedures, and you should be fine.

Propane Heaters: Carbon Monoxide Deaths
When a propane heater is lit, it consumes oxygen and produces carbon monoxide as a by-product. Carbon monoxide is an odorless tasteless gas that competes with oxygen binding molecules in our blood. Early symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning include headache and nausea. On prolonged exposure, it can cause cardiovascular collapse, coma and eventually death.
Deaths related to carbon monoxide are normally seen when people go out camping with indoor propane heaters. Inside the closed tents, there is no outlet for carbon monoxide and no inlet for oxygen. Further, campers, having spent the entire day hiking fall asleep immediately unaware of what is happening and some unfortunately never wake up.
It is always advisable to get a carbon monoxide detector fitted in the room like the garage or the green house where the propane heater will be used extensively. These days propane heaters fitted with oxygen detectors are also available. These detectors sound an alarm when the oxygen level falls under a pre-determined value. This will indicate that the carbon monoxide level is rising in the room.

[Raider Bill]

I like my gas log set up too course I don't need it for heat but it does put out a considerable amount.
Mine has a remote control, push of a button and you have fire, can adjust it and it even has a timer which will turn on shut off at a predetermined time. Ebay $300, 3 years ago.

That infrared that Jeff mentioned looks to be the ticket for straight heat.

[Radar67]

BT, I understand exactly where you are coming from, but the ventless heaters were designed to use indoors without the problems. My Mom has used them exclusively for a couple of years and never had a problem with Carbon Monoxide. Her heater does have a sensor and if oxygen levels get too low, the heater shuts off until levels are normal again. Her heater has never shut down. I think the sensors are required on the ventless heaters.

I've noticed that the only flame produced by her heaters are the pilot and an initial flame when the heater first comes on. After that, the flame is not apparent, just the glow of the heating grates.

The detector is good advice though.

[StorminN]

It has four outlets on it but I'm not sure if they are 15 or 20 amp capacity.  The longest run would be about 40 feet.  What size wire should I use?  I have a roll of 14ga on hand.  Would that be big enough?

DanG,

If it's a 5,500W generator, it's probably two 20A circuits... if the outlets have a "T" shaped spade on the left side, they're 20A. If they're just two parallel blades that look the same, they are 15A. The generator might even have a little push-button circuit breaker above each outlet pair that is labeled... my Generac is like that.

-N.