Saw something cool tonite

DanG · April 04, 2010, 10:16:23 AM

Hey Charlie, do you remember the big crash on the FEC line just south of Cocoa in '65? The wreckage spilled out onto U.S. 1 and blocked half of it. I remember sitting at a crossing in Cocoa as that train zipped through town at about 60mph, a couple of minutes before the crash.

CHARLIE · April 04, 2010, 07:17:20 PM

DanG, I have a couple of books about the Florida East Coast Railway and there is a picture of it in one of the books. I remember hearing about it but never saw a picture until I got that book about a year ago. I bet the crew was ready to quit after that one! I can only say,"Holey Schmolee!!!" Maybe I'll write about the wreck I was in (wasn't as dramatic as the one you mentioned but dramatic enough for me) and maybe a few incidences that happened to me. Once, my Trainmaster said to me, "Charlie, you don't put 'em off the track often but when you do, you do one helluva job!" Why did he say that? Because a couple of times they had to call the wrecker to come up from Miami to lift the cars back onto the track and repair the tracks. I'm here to tell you DanG, I've got the best Guardian Angel in the world. By now though, he's about worn slam out keeping me out of trouble.

Of course, when I start telling my stories, y'all have to remember that I had a lot of good days where everything went right. ;D

CHARLIE · April 05, 2010, 12:26:52 AM

Derailments: Usually, when you read about a derailment it is basically a train wreck and newsworthy. But derailments do happen that you never read about. Why? Because they aren't newsworthy....but, I will say they are a pain in the patooty. They are low speed mishaps. Things like sand covered tracks can cause a car's set of wheels to come off the track. Also, when a city paves over the track with asphalt, that will cause a car to derail. Don't ask how I know this. After over 40 years I'm still mad about that one. Anyway, how does a crew get that heavy car back on the rail? In the engine, the crew keeps a sledge hammer, an ax and a Re-railer. A Re-railer is a 'half moon' shaped chunk of steel that is flat on one side and sort of round on he other. After coupling the engine to the car, the crew will place the Re-railer against one of the car's wheels. The conductor or trainman will then signal the engineer to pull forward, which will hopefully pull the car up onto the Re-railer. As the wheel gets to the top, it slips off the rounded side, which moves the wheel over about 8 or 10 inches (I can't remember the "Re-railer's width). Sometimes, that is enough to drop the wheel back onto the rail. But sometimes the wheels are far enough from the track that it takes several attempts to work the wheels over to and onto the rail. A set of wheels coming off the track can really take a crew from 1/2 hour to an hour to re-rail it and will throw them behind schedule. It's a bad deal all the way around. If a crew can't get the car back on the track, they will have to admit defeat and call for the railroad to send one of their cranes to lift it back onto the track, but that is a rare occurence. That happened to me twice. Once in a train wreck and once in a stub track mishap. Derailments don't happen often but no one likes it when they do.

Have you ever thought the bell and whistle of the train's engine is loud? Well, you ought to be inside the engine's cab and hear it. I can't talk about the engines of today, but back when I worked on the railroad, we used GP7 and GP9 engines and the interior of the cabs were all metal. Also, back then there was no OSHA and no one wore ear protectors. When I first started working for the railroad, and would be sitting in the engine the bell and whistle was painful to my ears. But it didn't seem to bother the Engineer or Conductor. I didn't know why it didn't. I figured 'cause they were tough. I certainly didn't want to appear weak, so I just gritted my teeth and bore it out. Later in years I figured out that they weren't all that tough.....they were dang near deaf! My hearing has suffered (at least my wife tells me I'm hard of hearing) and I'm sure the bell and whistle are a part of the reason. On the old GP7 and 9s, the Engineer had a rope with a handle tied to the whistle lever above and his dash below. He would pull the rope to blow the whistle. Over on the left side of the engine cab were 2 seats by the window and a door in front of the seats. To the right of the door was a switch you flipped to the right to activate the bell and to the left to turn it off. We always used both the bell and whistle at crossings.

thecfarm · April 05, 2010, 07:32:49 AM

Nice stories Charlie. Not many cabooses around either.Saw one last year,was surprised to see it.When we go to Lancaster County,Pa there is a caboose motel.You can stay in a caboose. Seems like he has many different companies represented there.This is probably around Gap,PA. Seems like there is a model train building right next to it.Should remember all this,been by it dozens of times.

CHARLIE · April 05, 2010, 08:04:43 PM

I never slept in a caboose even though I spent a lot of time in them. When I was running the Local from Fort Pierce, Florida to New Symrna, Florida we (the crew) would find an old sleeper car and sleep on old mattresses that only the Lord knows who slept on it before or how many slept on it over the years. We showered in the shop. New Symrna is where Florida East Coast Railway had their shop to fix engines and cars. After a 14 or 16 hour day, we were too tired to even think about walking into town.

CHARLIE · April 05, 2010, 08:20:44 PM

Some of this is redundant information that I typed into my first response but I just didn't know how to tell a complete story without including the info again. Apologies in advance.

Engineers: Being a Railroad Engineer, in my opinion, has to be one of the most boring jobs on the planet. They have to sit in their seat all day either looking out the window or looking in the rearview mirror. I couldn't do that. I have to be moving around. The Engineer is responsible for the safety of the engine but follows the direction of the train's Conductor as far as movement. Being a Railroad Engineer is a skill and there are really great Engineers and really bad Engineers. Believe me when I say that there are some bad Railroad Engineers. I've been thrown from one end of the caboose to the other by a couple of bad Engineers.....and it hurts. I've seen a caboose that was destroyed by an Engineer. It just started coming apart inside and out. Today, trains don't use cabooses, so starting and stopping a train isn't quite as critical as it was way back then. The Engineer sits on the right side of the engine with one foot on the "Deadman's Pedal". The "Deadman's Pedal" has to be pushed down while the engine is running or the train will go into an emergency stop. This is a safety feature in case the engineer has a heart attack. I can't talk about the engines of today but I can't imagine they've changed too much from the GP7 and GP9 engines we used. Anyway, what I'm writing about is about the GP7 and GP9 engines (antiques). On the Engineers left is the throttle lever that has 8 positions, a train brake lever that allowed the Engineer to release the engine's brakes independently by pushing it down. And a forward and backward lever (hither go yonder stick). On the Engineer's right is the bell lever located on the wall by the window and the whistle rope. I do not remember where the light controls are but I believe they were in front of the engineer slightly to his left.

Starting and stopping a train: A train's brakes operate with compressed air. The ground crew will couple all the air hoses between each car in the train. The very last airhose at the end of the train has its valve closed. Before the train can move, the ground crew must do a brake check. This is a pain in the butt when you have a long train and a hot day. The Engineer will bring the train's air pressure up to operating pressure and then set the train's brakes by releasing some air (reducing air pressure). This causes the brake cylinders under each car to extend and set the brakes (steel shoes against the steel wheels). A member of the ground crew, trainman or conductor, must walk the length of the train to make sure all the brakes are set. He does this by looking at the cylinders to assure they are extended. Then he signals the Engineer to release the brakes. Then he walks the length of the train again to assure the brakes are all released (cylinder retracted). Then the train may leave. Not bad if you only have 30 or 40 cars but a PITA if you have a 150 or more cars.

Starting a train: The more cars in a train, the harder it is to get moving. When a train is stopped, all the "slack" is stretched out, so the Engineer will start backing up to compress some of the cars so he can get a running start. You'll hear the cars banging together as he backs up. He may compress 10 or 20 cars or more before putting the engine into forward and opening the throttle. You'll then hear the slack coming back out of the cars as the engine gets a running start. Sometimes, it will take a couple of tries to get the train rolling.

Stopping the train: There is slack between each boxcar. Slack is the movement at each drawbar that holds the knuckle used for coupling. 100 boxcars will have as much as one car length of slack in them (different types of cars have different amounts of slack but we'll stick to just boxcars for the illustration). When an engine is pulling a train, of course the train is "stretched out". One of the skills of the Engineer is stopping a train without injuring whoever was riding in the caboose. If the Engineer, who was pulling 150 cars, just applied the engine brakes, by the time all the cars slammed together, the caboose would travel 1½ car lengths and then slam into the preceeding car. This would cause the person in the caboose to go flying from one end to the other. It will also eventually tear up the caboose. So, an Engineer must mentally calculate when to start stopping the train so it will be stopped where it is supposed to be stopped. This is learned by experience and the longer the train, the further distance he'll need to get stopped. Sometimes it will take a mile or more to stop. The first thing the Engineer does is start setting his train brakes, increasing his throttle a couple of clicks and keeping the independant engine brake released. So the cars are setting their brakes and the engine is pulling. This causes the train to stretch out. Once the train is stretched out, the Engineer will start using his Independant engine brake too. The train will come to a nice smooth stop because the cars are dragging the train to a stop, so the train remains stretched out. The person in the caboose is happy.

It takes a good Engineer to run a train. Yep, I said, "Run a train". You cannot drive a train because there is no steering wheel. The engine just runs forward on the tracks or backwards on the tracks. A good Engineer knows how to get his train stopped and started smoothly. A good Engineer is observant and watches for signals for the crew. The Engineer owns the engine and the Conductor owns the train. They have to work together.

Brad_S. · April 05, 2010, 09:08:34 PM

Charlie,
I am enjoying these stories. Thank you. I don't think they are allowed to kick cars anymore, are they?

Quote from: thecfarm on April 05, 2010, 07:32:49 AM
When we go to Lancaster County,Pa there is a caboose motel.You can stay in a caboose. Seems like he all many different companies represented there.

There's one in NY too. Have wanted to stay there just for fun but haven't yet.
http://www.caboosemotel.net/caboose.asp
I have often thought of buying one to live in now that I am a batchelor again.

CHARLIE · April 06, 2010, 12:15:09 AM

I don't know what the rules of the railroad are anymore, but I cannot imagine being able to work on a railroad and not be able to "Kick" a car. I mean, building a train would be a nightmare of having to shove each car(s) down each track. Heck! it would take all day to build a train.

Here's a story about kicking a bunch of cars. I have several "Kicking" car stories.

My train was working it's way north from Fort Pierce. We were at Melbourne, Florida where there was a nice sized siding where semi-trucks could back up to cars and load up. I would always go in and take out the empty boxcars and deliver loaded boxcars I had in my train. Well, this particular day, I was not in a very good mood. I took the engine onto the siding to pick up all the empties. As we were starting to drag them out, I spotted a hobo run out of the bushes and jump up in a boxcar. I dragged the bunch of cars out to the mainline and needed to kick thim down to my train, which was a ways down the track. As I said, I was not in a good mood. So when I gave the engineer the highball sign to start pushing the cars, I let him get up pretty good speed before I had him stop. The boxcars separated from the engine and rolling toward my train at a pretty good clip. Pretty soon they slammed into my train enough to knock the dust off 'em. I stood there and watched and pretty soon that hobo slowly climbed out of the boxcar and hobbled away. I've always felt bad about doing that. I imagine he had quite a trip from one end of the boxcar to the other. I'll tell another "Kicking" story later.

SwampDonkey · April 06, 2010, 06:31:13 AM

The spiral tunnel at Kicking Horse Pass. ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEe9d69NpyM

CHARLIE · April 06, 2010, 12:56:16 PM

Wow! Dat's not only interesting to see, Dat's a long train too!

SwampDonkey · April 06, 2010, 03:42:53 PM

There's some other videos that come up when you finish watching this one. They're from different vantage points. That's in the YOHO National Park in BC and there are some shows they put on in the summer, one I think is a history behind the Kicking Horse Pass. I see they have an old steamer picture just entering the tunnels on their website.

CHARLIE · April 06, 2010, 08:41:55 PM

Another "Kicking" story:

It was perishable season in the Belle Glade, Florida area and I was the conductor of the
South Bay Turn. South Bay was a small town west of Belle Glade and my crew went on duty at 7:00pm in Belle Glade and immediately made a run (cab light....that means just the engine and the caboose) to the packing house in South Bay. We picked up the full loads, which the packing house always had first on the siding and then respotted the partial loaded cars for the packing house. We then we hauled the loads back to Belle Glade and dropped them off for the Belle Glade crew to build into the train they were preparing for the Through Freight due in from Fort Pierce. Then my crew headed toward Canal Point to work another Packing House. The foreman at that packing house did not like the railroad for some reason. So he would scatter his loads throughout the siding and make sure the last car was a load. This guy cost me a lot of time every night! I'd have to drag all the cars out and separate the loads to my train and the partials to a 12 car stub track. I had to handle the partials carefully so I didn't cause any damage to the unstable crates inside. Well, one night I wasn't particularly in a bad mood but wasn't in a good mood either. I was running a bit behind and when I got there and saw that he had done it again, I got fed up. I dragged all the cars out of the siding and then set a partial load at the bottom of the 12 car stub track butted up against the wheel stop. I set the brakes on that car. The stub track was slightly downhill. I then dragged all the cars out to the main line and started kicking the loads to the train on the mainline and the partial loads to the stub track. I gave the partial loads an extra little bit of speed and seeing as it was downhill, they'd hit the car(s) at the end with a resounding and satisfyiny BOOM! Once I got the loaded cars separated out and onto my train, I went down to hook onto the partial loads to drag them out. They wouldn't budge. So I walked down to the end of the stub track and Lordy, Lordy....I done caused that last car to jump the wheelstops and then drove the end of the car down into the ground. So, I uncoupled it and dragged the rest of the cars out of the stub track and shoved them down the track to the packing house. I didn't spot them to the doors either. I just left them all hooked up. I then got my train ready for the Through Frieight to pick up, which included putting a Switch List in the knuckle of the first car for the conductor. After the Through Freight was headed back to Fort Pierce, the Belle Glade crew knocked off after their long day. We still had a lot of hours to go because we were working about 14 to 16t hour days. So from about midnight until 7:00 a.m. I was the only crew working. We finished our day, I called in the crew's times to the dispatcher in New Symrna and we went home. Well, at 7:00 pm I showed up to work again and everyone was in the Yard House waiting for me and really laughing hard. You see......no one liked that foreman at the packing house and he had called that day...before I got to work.....and was madder than a wet snake. He said every one of his partials were distroyed and the crates had swapped ends of the cars and broke open. He had to unload the cars, recrate the corn and reload the cars. When I got to that packing house that night, the loads were first on the track just like they should be and I never had a problem with that foreman again. Believe it or not, I did not get into anly trouble at all for that. Now, about that car that jumped the wheelstops and got driven into the ground. The Trainmaster had to call the wrecker to come up from Miami to get that car back onto the track. Then the Section Crew (they are the men that lay new track and repair damaged track) had to shorten the stub track by half a car length. From then on, that stub track only held 11 cars....and I imagine it only holds 11 cars to this day.....thanks to me. ;D

pigman · April 06, 2010, 09:03:57 PM

Charlie

QuoteWell, one night I wasn't particularly in a bad mood but wasn't in a good mood either.

I would hate to see what you would have done if you were in a real bad mood.
I like your stories. I have learned a lot about trains and how they operate.

CHARLIE · April 10, 2010, 11:58:11 PM

The diesel engines (GP7 & GP9 and the engines for passenger trains) back in the 1940's, '50's and '60s had the normal two lights that shined straight forward, but they also had a huge light on the front of the engine that would flip flop back and forth. That light was called a "Mars" light and the engineer could make it stop anywhere during it's cycle. The "Mars" light was a lot brighter than the two lights that shown straight forward. It allowed us to see very well on each side of the track and I'm sure it was an attention getter for people on the tracks or crossing the tracks. Several times in the Belle Glade area, couples would park behind big bushes that shielded them from the road, but not the railroad. I once had an engineer named Grant that liked to stop the engine, turn on the "Mars" light and let it flop over to illuminate the car. Then he'd ring the bell and toot the whistle softly. The engines used on the railroads today don't seem to have a "Mars" light. I reckon they are the thing of the past.

Brucer · April 11, 2010, 02:56:40 AM

As I recall, the Mars light oscillated in a sideways figure 8 pattern. They were thought to be more effective at helping the Engineer to spot something moving -- if you focused on one spot ahead of you, the light created a strobe effect. If you kept your eyes on the brightly lit area, your eyes were always moving. In either case, it was easier to pick out unusual movement. They also lit the sides of the track for quite a distance without projecting light up high where it wouldn't be much use.

I saw a few road engines with them in Washington state in the late 80's and early 90's.

DouginUtah · July 05, 2010, 09:49:42 PM

A trivial question for Charlie or anyone who knows...

I watched a bit of Trains and Locomotives today and got to wondering what provided the power for lights on steam locomotives. ???

tyb525 · July 06, 2010, 11:50:21 AM

There were usually steam generators (turbines) that produced electricity, after it became popular enough that it was used on trains. They used a small amount of the engine's hot steam to spin a turbine generator.

SwampDonkey · July 06, 2010, 02:33:03 PM

Without Googling I would surmise something like a steam turbine. We had steam engines here until the 50's, my mom's uncle took silent videos as the same era as they were blasting for the hydro dam on the Tobique. He worked on the railroads for 40 years or more. My grand parents and the locals named the steam engine train up the along the Tobique River, the "Tobique Train". Even when it was replaced with diesel, grandmother always remembered it as the "Old Tobique" as it tooted at the crossing by the hydro dam.

WDH · July 06, 2010, 09:31:00 PM

Speaking of trains......my FIL passed away this spring. He has an extensive model train collection, mostly Lionel. His Dad worked on the Seaboard Coastline railroad. It is a shame, but we will sell the collection as part of the estate settlement. His collection of model trains is most impressive.

SwampDonkey · July 07, 2010, 03:16:40 AM

My brother is some-what of a collector as well. It's hard to find the quality sets around here that we had as kids. My uncle had a model train like an old steamer, but we was real young, when before we knew better, and the train was run like a toy dump truck in the dirt. :

nas · July 10, 2010, 09:33:38 PM

Finally got this picture off my phone. This is out of my back window in April.

Nick

sawguy21 · July 10, 2010, 10:36:17 PM

I have really enjoyed this thread. I have a Brownie snap shot of the last steamer through the Okanagan valley here in B.C. taken about 1958. I loved the sound of a steam whistle, it carried for miles on a cold night. Horn on the diesels is not the same.
My grand dad was a crane operator for the NYC in southern Ontario. The line crossed into Canada at Buffalo then re entered the U.S. at Detroit saving the long run around Lake Erie. They had almost thirty trains a day running through (5 roads) and the kids were not allowed to be on the tracks for any reason. He would have lost his job over it.
Charlie talked about building trains. There was a nasty wreck not far from here a few years ago, tank cars derailed and dumped hazardous chemicals into the river. Paul H will remember that one well. Pretty much wiped out the marine life. Report came out that they had lightly loaded and empty cars in the middle, the train was on a long grade and it literally straightened out pulling the lighter cars off the tracks.
The CN and CP branch lines split in the town where I grew up, CP continued north and the CN looped around and headed south west. The latter crossed the road about 1/2 way home so we would hop into an empty car then jump at the crossing, the long trains were still building speed.One day I made the mistake of hopping a short freight. It was going at a good clip at our crossing, I had the choice of jumping or riding the 65 miles to Kamloops then finding my way home without getting caught. I jumped spraining both ankles in the process. I was sitting by the road feeling sorry for myself when a vehicle stopped, it had to be my dad of all people. Never did that again. :-[

Magicman · July 11, 2010, 07:47:13 AM

Here in the South there are too many trees and hills to see very much of a train as it passes by. You only see a few cars at the time.

In 1973 when I made my first trip "out West", while crossing Wyoming, I got a chance to see my first "Whole Train". And that coal train was loooong. I was anxious to get back home and tell folks about seeing a train from "engine to caboose".