Struck Magnatrac mini tracked crawlers

loggah · July 16, 2013, 02:11:25 PM

Buy the kubota and never look back !! i have a B2400 4x4 and haven't done a thing to it other then services in 10 years, those mini crawlers are just toys. Don

Piston · July 16, 2013, 04:32:12 PM

The Kubota BX won't be very good at pushing/pulling due it's very light weight. The BX (subcompact tractors in general) are really geared towards doing landscaping type work for the homeowner. They are good all in one tools for digging with the backhoe to plant trees/shrubs, light ditching, firewood handling all while being a fairly good lawn mower at the same time. They keep the weight down to minimize compaction of the soil. It really isn't a viable "woods" machine although many people use them for that, since they already have them.

For less than the price of that 18k dozer, which I think looks like a neat toy, or trail making tool, I don't think it's very practical for many things. I picked up an L series (used) kubota for less than that, and it has been insanely useful. I am still amazed at how much it can do, despite the fact that I can still use a larger tractor. Sometimes I don't give my tractor enough credit.

I would go with something like this, over the mini dozer any day.

Something the size of a BX just doesn't have enough lift capacity to do heavy work. Although, they are excellent tools for what their designed ;D

grweldon · July 17, 2013, 07:49:20 AM

I agree that the BX24 is a bit small but for the advertised price of $2750 I'm going to pop for it unless there is something major wrong. I had one reply to my inquiry asking for an email address to send pics to but nothing since. I'm figuring somebody already snapped it up.

beenthere · July 17, 2013, 10:26:58 AM

gr
That sounds like one from the CL where there is no such tractor, and the price is listed at way below market value. Just be careful if it is, as you will get a run-around and see some of your good money just disappear. Such deals pop up regularly on CL, so just saying "beware" .

Piston · July 17, 2013, 04:37:49 PM

Quote from: grweldon on July 17, 2013, 07:49:20 AM
I agree that the BX24 is a bit small but for the advertised price of $2750 I'm going to pop for it unless there is something major wrong. I had one reply to my inquiry asking for an email address to send pics to but nothing since. I'm figuring somebody already snapped it up.

If this is a CL ad, be sure to flag the ad and stay away from it. If it's a word of mouth thing then there is a very small chance it could be true, however, that tractor is worth many times more that price. I would be leary as all get out!

petefrom bearswamp · July 17, 2013, 06:49:54 PM

Piston, looks like you have both forks and the grapple?
also is that a landscape/road rake on the back?
how functional is the grapple?
My tractor is a Kubota 8540 85HP w/forks bucket and winch, which is a real workhorse, but expensive.
I would like to buy a grapple for the front.
pete

pineywoods · July 17, 2013, 08:09:00 PM

Comments from a happy kubota owner...The B series is just too small to be of much use around a sawmill. The medium sized L series is better but a bit pricey. contractors love them, small, compact, but with plenty of power. Kubota also makes a full sized farm type tractor, model M series, power from 45 hp up to over 100. Used, they can be had for less than a new smaller tractor. With the larger machine, 2 wheel drive is adequate for most situations, especially if you fill the rear tires with fluid. I use a 50 hp M series, 2wd with a loader, forks, and a winch on the back to support an lt40 woodmizer. It does everything I need. Parts ....Had it over 10 years, never needed the first part. The only problems I have had is fuel contaminated with water or gasoline..

Busy Beaver Lumber · July 17, 2013, 08:35:17 PM

If that was a legitimate deal on that bx24 for that price I would jump on it in a second, but i do think you need to be careful. I would think $5000 would be a fair price for just the used Bx24 tractor itself. They used to run for about $15,500 for the tractor, fel, deck and backhoe.

My first inclinations would be to agree with the others, that it sounds like a CL scam artist practicing his trade. But having said that, I did pick up the Massey 2310 with front end loader, backhoe, 60 inch deck and with only 192 hours on it for $5800 off of ebay. The fellow that listed it made and error. He owed $5800 on it and meant to list that as the reserve, but instead listed the $5800 as the buy it now price. I bought it 2 minutes after he listed it and to my suprise he went through with the sale. My hats off to him for having so much integrity to do so.

I kept it two years, used it for a few jobs around my house and at friends homes and sold it on cl for $12,500

Al_Smith · July 17, 2013, 09:15:18 PM

Well first of all on used equipment you have to strike while the iron is hot and know what you are buying.It takes cash on the barrell head .For heavens sake get a bill of sale .CYA. ;)

r.man · July 17, 2013, 09:21:22 PM

The little dozer would really shine on a small width trail system. Read about a woman who used a different make just for that. She used it a lot and was very impressed. Other than that it would be hit and miss as to its suitability for any job but if you have one of everything.....

Piston · July 17, 2013, 09:53:43 PM

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on July 17, 2013, 06:49:54 PM
Piston, looks like you have both forks and the grapple?
also is that a landscape/road rake on the back?
how functional is the grapple?
My tractor is a Kubota 8540 85HP w/forks bucket and winch, which is a real workhorse, but expensive.
I would like to buy a grapple for the front.
pete

Pete,
The grapple is absolutely, without a doubt, the best thing I've ever purchased. I've never gotten more use out of anything! Since buying the grapple, I've only had my bucket on a handful of times, at one point I went over a year without attaching my bucket since we had so little snow over the winter.

I do have both forks, and grapple, for the tractor. The forks are only used when picking up pallets, which is pretty rare for me. Sometimes I palletize my firewood.

It is a landscape rake with drop down blade on the back. It's useless. The rake works fine, just as a normal rake would, but the blade is worthless. I now keep a heavy duty box blade on the back.

A grapple on your M8540 would be the best tool you could invest in. If you do anything at all in the woods, it is absolutely priceless. I'd buy a lesser tractor with grapple, before buying the nicest tractor in the world without one.

There are more pics and info here: Feel free to ask questions there so we don't take over this thread.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=50047.0

Pineywoods, are you using the M5040? That's a nice size tractor.

grweldon · July 18, 2013, 07:53:37 AM

Quote from: beenthere on July 17, 2013, 10:26:58 AM
gr
That sounds like one from the CL where there is no such tractor, and the price is listed at way below market value. Just be careful if it is, as you will get a run-around and see some of your good money just disappear. Such deals pop up regularly on CL, so just saying "beware" .

Certainly I wouldn't even consider buying something like this without first seeing it and there is no question I would get a bill of sale! I was thinking about this a couple days ago... I don't know the answer... Do tractors get titled? I didn't get a title when I bought mine...

fishpharmer · July 18, 2013, 08:38:35 AM

Tractors aren't titled in MS, SC or AL. Can't speak for the other states.
There is usually more than one serial number location on a tractor. Write it down and keep it in a safe place.

Okrafarmer · July 18, 2013, 09:00:08 AM

Never ever ever send money to anyone from CL. The proper way to use CL to buy something is-- you respond to an ad, you ask any questions you might wish to know about, and then you arrange to meet the person and see the item. If they hedge on meeting you, and make excuses, then it IS A SCAM. The most common excuse I get is that they are in the military overseas and MUST SELL IT NOW, so they are giving you this once in a lifetime deal. Their "brother-in-law" or other relative will get with you when he comes back from vacation in a couple of weeks, but you need to send them the money NOW because otherwise someone else will snap the thing up. DO NOT do it. Cash on the barrel only after actually seeing the thing, and then you must get a bill of sale to protect yourself, and always include the serial or VIN on the bill of sale and make the seller sign it. Someone doing legitimate business will never have a problem signing a bill of sale.

On the Struck, my friend in Idaho has one, and they enjoy it, but it is basically used like a rough tough lawn and garden tractor. Consider it an LGT that has better traction and has some nifty attachments. There is no way you should buy it new, look for a used one to come up for sale for around $2-3,000 or so (that's about all they're really worth, used, regardless of what anyone's asking). They have many attachments available, plus, if you;re handy, you can make your own. They can have dozer blade, loader, backhoe, rototiller, lawn mower, and possibly other things.

If you really want a good little crawler to do some real work, get an Oliver OC-3. Parts are available through Zimmerman Oliver-Cletrac in Ephrata Pennsylvania. The bare OC-3 weighs around 3,000 lbs, plus the attachments (and operator!). The OC-3 is a time-proven worker. You should be able to get a working one for less than $5,000, or a really nice one for about $5-7,000. All parts, manuals, and service are available for the OC-3 through Zimmerman.

Al_Smith · July 18, 2013, 04:53:37 PM

Just as general info most crawlers will pull about 90-95 percent of their weight on a dead pull .

For example the Nebraska test of the Oliver model HG which is the same as an OC-3 weighed in at about 4100 pounds and pulled over 3900 .

If you look at those tests though 2 wheel drive tractors with ballasted tires would probabley pull upwards of 80 percent or higher .

So you take that midget crawler at 1600 pounds you really can't get much of a pull .Probabley about as much as an empty pick up truck .

Okrafarmer · July 18, 2013, 11:48:28 PM

Yes, Al, you are right. A little handier to till your garden with than a pickup truck though. ;)

plaindriver · July 19, 2013, 08:39:52 AM

Yesterday I had chance to put 2.5 hrs on the mini backhoe. Here is my pirep:

The control inputs want to make the arm or bucket 'jerk' some. I suppose I will eventually learn the feel of the hydraulic controls. Has (2) 4-way joy sticks. There definitely is a learning curve. Can be used while attached to tow tractor ONLY for real light digging, or else it will put way too much upward force on the tow ball.
You cant tow it to work area with a riding mower. Too heavy and bulky over uneven ground. A pickup will work, and a tractor is ideal. As for loading logs on a saw deck (or trailer)- -forget it. Wont do it. Doubt if it could even put a 12" log on a 24" hi trailer-clearance wise. Only possible way it would work is to establish the CG of the log flawlessly, heft it, then drive a flatbed under it. To dig on its own, you have to take the wheels off the front receivers and inst them in the rear. Quick and easy once you lift the deck by grounding the arm/bucket. As far as mobility- -its done by lowering the bucket then extending it to move 4-5' at a time. In a race, a stud operator might could move it 20-25' in a minute. Maybe. IE, its real slow to move it from this part of the yard to that. Also, precision placement will take a while to master. Chair isnt real comfortable, especially on uneven ground. And, my damp clay soil didnt always want to easily drop out of the bucket.
Yesterday, I started on a retaining wall trench. Dug about 20' @24" depth and maybe 16"-18" wide. Then I "walked" across the yard and pried out some 200-300# boulders that were embedded in the soil. It had the balls to do it, just had several tries to get a good grip on the boulder. (A manual thumb is avail, but I didnt get it.)

All in all, its a decent value, but for digging only. It cant be considered versatile in the least.

Okrafarmer · July 19, 2013, 09:51:06 AM

Well, there you have it!

grweldon · July 19, 2013, 10:33:55 AM

Thank you sir. Answered all my questions!

Al_Smith · July 19, 2013, 03:56:38 PM

Quote from: Okrafarmer on July 18, 2013, 11:48:28 PM
Yes, Al, you are right. A little handier to till your garden with than a pickup truck though. ;)

Well since you mentioned it when I had the other place I did pull an 8 foot disk with the Ollie HG in my garden.Things have changed ,the garden is 4 feet wide and 36 feet long now ,roto tiller does it nicely. ;D

Okrafarmer · July 19, 2013, 06:37:39 PM

By the way, for those not putting two and two together, the Oliver HG is the model that came before the OC-3, and they are almost identical, the OC-3 is just an upgrade. Zimmerman services both models. The HG and OC-3 are the most common models of Oliver / Cletrac crawlers, and all the parts are available.

Al_Smith · July 20, 2013, 05:22:03 AM

There were at one time many "two ton" crawlers made .Oliver,IH ,Allis-Chalmers ,Caterpillar,John-Deere and probabley a dozen more lesser known names .

They kind of fell out of popularity and for the most part are collectors items at this time .

When my grand father came to Ohio from Pittsburgh in 1937 they had a Cletrac that used what now is called the elevated track design .That thing was built in 1919 .So as much as Caterpillar was so proud of the design it was just an old idea revisited .

It wasn't very fast but with an 8 foot disk,spike tooth harrow and timber drag it worked ground in one pass .Took about a half an acre to turn the thing around though .My father used to say it was about the speed of a team of Belgians which is about 2 MPH .

thecfarm · July 20, 2013, 05:35:13 AM

I wonder if cooking oil in the bucket would help on that wet clay. There is a guy that comes here with used cooking oil in the back of his truck. He uses it to spray inside of his dump truck when he hauls hot top with it. He says it slidles right out now.No need to get into the body with a flat shovel and scrap off the hot top that sticks onto the body of the truck. I suppose you could just wipe it on with a rag.

jdonovan · July 20, 2013, 07:06:52 AM

Quote from: thecfarm on July 20, 2013, 05:35:13 AM
I wonder if cooking oil in the bucket would help on that wet clay.

One thing new backhoe operators try to do is dig with the bucket like an ice cream scoop. That might work ok in sand, or other loose material, but not in clay. It tends to work better to loosen material with the teeth and let the loose dirt flow into the bucket. The prevents packing the material into the back of the bucket and you can dump it more easily. You will get some sticking in clay but this can help reduce that tendency.

Okrafarmer · July 20, 2013, 05:27:45 PM

It takes a strong / heavy backhoe to get into the clay around here!

Caterpillar stopped making anything smaller than 3.5 tons by say, World War II, and maybe a little earlier. IH made some babies, like the T-4, T-5, and T-340, that were intended more as ag tractors. The same for Oliver's OC-6 and John Deere's MC. JD's 40 replaced the MC around 1953, and was much better, as well as its replacement the 420, and its replacement the 430. Those 2-ton crawlers were pretty good little machines, but I think overall you will find the HG / OC-3 simpler to work on and more reliable. Deeriphiles will contest that and threaten me with entanglement in a PTO shaft for my sacrilege, but I really think the OC-3 is the better machine.

The Terratrac Crawlers came out after World War II, and eventually the company was purchased by Case to become Case's line of crawlers. I don't know a whole lot about those ones, or the Allis Chalmers crawlers, such as their baby the H-3 / HD-3.

The Cletrac from circa 1919 with the high-drive track sprockets is the Model F. Landis Zimmerman has or had one of those on display at his place when I visited there ten years ago. I always thought they were one of the niftiest-looking pieces of vintage machinery every built. The Model F was only a 1-ton machine, more in the category of the Struck. They are very much in demand as collector's items now.