Swing saw mill build.

[leroy in kansas]

I've started the build on a swing saw. Here is a pic of a mock up I've done in wood. Doing it this way helps me visualize and plan all the holes and stuff I need to do before the final assembly. It's also much easier to get the parts on the mill before it's put together.

I do have a question about building.  What is acceptable for tolerances doing this build. My past experiences as a tool & die builder keep getting in the way. I think/know I have a tendency to get the tolerances to close.



 

[hackberry jake]

You even made a wooden blade for it! I am going to stay tuned on this build!

[drobertson]

from one tool builder to another, I can testify, tolerances often get in the way, but I believe with machinery, there is no sub for keeping it close. How else will a sound consistent product be made?  It even works its way into sawing for me,  One tree, and it's down, for ever, why not get the most from it?  I have always felt there is no going back once the foundation is laid,  I say do what you know to do, and there should be few regrets, compromise always results in the proverbial head shake, and head aches,   Proto type looks great! 

[leroy in kansas]

from one tool builder to another, I can testify, tolerances often get in the way, but I believe with machinery, there is no sub for keeping it close. How else will a sound consistent product be made?  It even works its way into sawing for me,  One tree, and it's down, for ever, why not get the most from it?  I have always felt there is no going back once the foundation is laid,  I say do what you know to do, and there should be few regrets, compromise always results in the proverbial head shake, and head aches,   Proto type looks great!

Thanks much, I'll try to keep the build going. I agree with you on keeping it close, but there is overkill. I'm trying to find somewhere between to much and not enough. I hate to have paralysis of analysis. 

[ozarkgem]

I own a machine shop so I tend to over do things also. The question is what tolerances are you talking about? Some places will stand more than others. I would say anything around the saw head make it close. Nice wood mockup. Keep posting pics

[Seaman]

Leroy, try to find a Lucas or Peterson within driving distance . It would answer a lot of questions, and you could improve on what you find.
Frank

[Ianab]

Work out where you need precise. The blade hub / bearings, pulleys etc.

And where you want some clearance and adjustment. Take for example where your carriage sits on the cross-member? That needs to be able to slide freely, not be jammed up by a stray wood chip. My mill uses nylon blocks that are adjustable there, and basically just sitting on top of the rail. The slippery sliding block pushes debris aside, where a bearing might foul up with sticky wood chips? The other sides don't make contact at all, and are only needed to prevent the carriage coming off in a mishap. Heck you can have 1/2" clearances there.

Likewise for the swivel position. Make it swing from -2° to +92° and have adjustable stops to get the final positions.

By all means make everything square and straight, but it's not a Swiss Watch you are making.  ;) It's going to be working in a cloud of assorted wood chips.

Ian

[21incher]

tight tolerances are great but I think for something that will see the kind of abuse that a mill will need a plan for easy adjustability when something gets bumped and possibly a couple of setup jigs to align to.

[bandmiller2]

Leroy, probably the biggest problem will be movement when welding, otherwise tolerances of 1/16". I would have liked to build a swinger but my old mind couldn't wrap around the pivot location, so the cuts intersect. What do you plan to use for a transmission.?? Integrity of the saw arbor is critical and saw attachment. This should be an interesting build. Many times I've used wooden mockups especially trying to figure loader bucket linkages. Frank C.

[drobertson]

bearings and housings, sliding fits and running fits, these really need to be met, I feel most will agree.  What a project to take on!  21, not much to say to you, you killed your log arch If I say so myself, and a fine job, it is a hard thing to work with  steel,(or wood) and not really try to stay close, 

[Hilltop366]

You even made a wooden blade for it! I am going to stay tuned on this build!

Me too!

[tjhammer]

good mock up from what I see its going to be electric so no gear box everything has to be adjustable on the saw carriage as far as blade adjustment and things being square maybe this will help the distance from the center of the swing bearing to the outer saw face is half of your saw dia and the cuts will intersect I wish I had built a electric saw but where I'm at there's no electric
tj

[leroy in kansas]

good mock up from what I see its going to be electric so no gear box everything has to be adjustable on the saw carriage as far as blade adjustment and things being square maybe this will help the distance from the center of the swing bearing to the outer saw face is half of your saw dia and the cuts will intersect I wish I had built a electric saw but where I'm at there's no electric
tj

The pic of the mock up has the fake motor setting on the carriage. From the research I've done, most of the guys that have built with electric state that their mill is underpowered. "Dangerous Dan" had gone from a 15 hp to 10 hp on his mill. I just can't come up with a suitable electric motor. At least in the 10 hp range without going 3 ph. Which I don't have.

So I've changed the plan to use BS gas engine. I have a gear box for power transmission.

I'll keep working on posting more pics. as the work progresses.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Leroy

[leroy in kansas]

Work out where you need precise. The blade hub / bearings, pulleys etc.

And where you want some clearance and adjustment. Take for example where your carriage sits on the cross-member? That needs to be able to slide freely, not be jammed up by a stray wood chip. My mill uses nylon blocks that are adjustable there, and basically just sitting on top of the rail. The slippery sliding block pushes debris aside, where a bearing might foul up with sticky wood chips? The other sides don't make contact at all, and are only needed to prevent the carriage coming off in a mishap. Heck you can have 1/2" clearances there.

Likewise for the swivel position. Make it swing from -2° to +92° and have adjustable stops to get the final positions.

By all means make everything square and straight, but it's not a Swiss Watch you are making.  ;) It's going to be working in a cloud of assorted wood chips.

Ian

Thanks Ian, I like the info provided. I'll incorporate the nylon blocks or something close.

[hackberry jake]

You could always make your own three phase...

[ozarkgem]

I have a 20 HP 3 phase on my mill that I run with a generator. I am getting ready to build a new mill shed and will build a 50 HP phase converter for it and do away with the genset. I don't have enough amps where I am now to do it. Once you have the phase converter you can buy all kinds of industrial grade toys er I mean tools.

[Ianab]

Are you going portable? One of the big pluses with a swing mill is oversize logs that folks can't move. Those 4 or 5 ft oversize logs, that have a WHACK of good lumber in them, but most mills can't handle.

If that's the case, then the gas engine is the way to go.

If it's stationary, then electric would be a good choice.

If you are running with less power, then run a blade with with less cutters. OK it's going to cut slower, but the individual cutters will still be working efficiently. So 10 hp with 4 cutters can cut about 1/2 the speed of 20 hp with 8 cutters. Where 10 and 8 is underpowered, you have to slow down much more. and end up at 1//4 speed.

Ian

[thecfarm]

Dangerous Dan,he has built things from a under ground outdoor furnace to a sawmill. All from stuff that he has got for just about nothing.

[leroy in kansas]

Got started cutting the tubing. First to aprox. length then squared the ends up. 

  

Then got on with cutting the holes for the carriage to slide on the rails

 

I made the holes 1/32" over bottom and side. and It seems to work well prior to welding. That will come later. 

 

The carriage assembly clamped together. with the bushings that will hopefully grease the skid. Is seen in the previous pic. 

 

Still doing some planning and wishing I had 21's cnc cutter here to help with some of the work.

[hackberry jake]

Judging by your scrap pile, you don't need a sawmill, you need some wood glue!  :D

[Ljohnsaw]

This will be an interesting thread to follow!

[leroy in kansas]

Judging by your scrap pile, you don't need a sawmill, you need some wood glue!  :D

, yes, I'm one of those guys that doesn't throw enough stuff away. It does look like it's past time to thin that pile out. Wanna come help? 

[21incher]

 This will be a fun one to watch, and most likely work better then anything you can buy when finished. With all the great builds on this forum it seems like we need a topic area for "Homebuilt Wood processing Tools". CNC plasma is the way to go for any parts that are not square, but a hand held plasma torch comes in second and gets the job done with a little cleanup ( you could even trace your wooden templates ). When it comes to saving scrap I think we all are the same, but it is fun to try and build projects from all scrap as I did my arch. Thanks for sharing your build.

[leroy in kansas]

Had some time to work on the swing saw this weekend. It seems to be coming together. Still have a long way to go. 

 
rough fit of the carriage 

 

I'm going to use chain drive on both sides. Hopefully to help avoid racking. 

 

I threaded the hole for the shoulder bolt to fit into and will use a nut to lock the position of the bolt. Will put some grease zerks in the set screw holes to give it a bit of lub from time to time. 

 

I used HDPE on the slides Ian suggested. It made a lot of difference in the amount of effort used to move the slide. Plus it doesn't screech anymore



 

I got the ends put on the slides. This is what it's shaping up like.

The engine is setting in the middle still attached to the hoist. The old gurney works well for projects like this.

Will try to get more pics up as the work  progresses.

Leroy

[ozarkgem]

use some cam followers if you want to make it move real easy. Nice looking job. I am impressed.