Two technical shots

[CCC4]

The up hilled Red Oak was 40 feet from a remote high line and the Black gum was a heavy leaner. Thanks for viewing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ_RjbNu7_s&index=2&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDHQPQ65h4Y&index=1&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA

[treeslayer2003]

hey bro, good to see yer still kickin down there.

[CCC4]

Hey there Mike! Yup...been cutting like a demon since I been back! Straight up floggin 'em down! Hope all is well! Stay safe mang! Heads up eyes wide!

[Southside]

Thanks for the videos, always enjoy watching your work.   I like the way you bored that gum, will have to use that.

[CCC4]

Much appreciated Southside! Thanks man!

[John Mc]

Nice video.  I was wondering what was up with no notch on the leaner, but it looks as though it worked nicely, splitting down into the stump, rather than causing problems with the but of the log. I'll have to try that some time.

I did notice you were getting some chatter (bar wating to jump around on you) on the leaner when bore cutting (starting at about 44 second mark).  I've had that problem when using new Oregon chain recently - ever since they went to the "sharp right out of the box" that they're hyping. The chain seems to have way too much hook. It is sharp, and cuts aggressively, but it doesn't stay sharp for long, and seems more prone to chatter. Once I've resharpened it a time or two, and gotten it back closer to the old profile they used to ship with, it bore cuts fine. Have you run into this?

[CCC4]

Thank you! Yes Sir, I knocked my drags a bit for boring with full skip....that's what was causing the chatter. Full skip isn't really the absolute perfect choice for boring.

As far as out of the bow sharp...I never leave the truck w/o changing factory angle, I like a bit more lead on my angle and also always knock one stroke on the drags on fresh chain. I like the pull from a more agro chain...but the chatter can make your eye balls almost shake out.

Thanks for asking! 

[John Mc]

I've also noticed that the depth gauges were a bit high on some of my Oregon chain out of the box (higher than the spec they give for setting them).  I was wondering if this was intentional, to make up for the extra hook they're putting on the chain. It might keep it from being too much of a surprise for Joe Consumer when he replaces the safety chain that came with his saw.

I missed that it was full skip chain...

[clww]

Both are nice videos. I really liked the one showing the bore cut technique of the hard leaner. Shows how fast they come down with an extreme lean.  Any mistake gets magnified the more the lean of the tree IMO. Be careful out there.

[CCC4]

I've also noticed that the depth gauges were a bit high on some of my Oregon chain out of the box (higher than the spec they give for setting them).  I was wondering if this was intentional, to make up for the extra hook they're putting on the chain. It might keep it from being too much of a surprise for Joe Consumer when he replaces the safety chain that came with his saw.

I missed that it was full skip chain...

Everything goes back to personal preferences, I personally don't use Oregon loops, I don't like the factory specs and their backs are angled down, just something about them. I only use Stihl RS in either skip or full comp, have tried the semi but it is just that...in the middle. You are probably correct though about the drags being a little high, I would assume most folks like a smoother cut, and the going from a safety chain to flat top single drags...your therory is probably spot on.

[CCC4]

Both are nice videos. I really liked the one showing the bore cut technique of the hard leaner. Shows how fast they come down with an extreme lean.  Any mistake gets magnified the more the lean of the tree IMO. Be careful out there.

Yes Sir, headleaners can either go great, or really really bad in just a flash. Thanks! 

[timberlinetree]

Nice job! We call those hoopers(leaner) and I don't like cutting those. Seems the butt part of the log has a mind of its own and can land anywhere. That camera is really neat! Thanks and work safe!

[Southside]

Ok, so how do you judge the leaner to decide just how much to leave on the front side of the bore cut?  I tried that cut today with a 10" or so tree today that had a good lean to it, ended up making a barber chair.  I would guess I did not cut enough off the front, just wondering what you look for.

Thanks

[beenthere]

"front side" meaning the hinge wood, I presume.

Notch, then bore to leave no more (and no less) than 1" hinge wood full width, and then cut back out to leave the holding wood.
When all is clear, cut the holding wood carefully as it will lose tension fast and the tree will drop fast.

If falling in the direction of the lean, and that is clearly where you want the 10" tree to go, I'd just back cut it quick, little or no notch.
You'll be through it before it can barberchair. (if the chain is sharp and the saw is working right). If you cut slow, then that doesn't work good.

[John Mc]

If you are worried about barber chair, you can cut a normal notch first, then bore cut, bringing the leading edge of your bore up towards the notch to set your hinge thickness (I usually use about 10% of the DBH as a rule of thumb, though this can vary with species and other conditions). Then cut back away from your hinge, leaving a bit of holding wood on the side opposite the hinge. When you are ready to drop the tree, snip that last bit of holding wood, and away it goes.

That holding wood keeps the tree in place on a forward leaner, so you have time to get your hinge set right. To minimize the chance of barber chair, I usually make the bore cut level with the apex (the point) of the notch, rather than offsetting it upward as some types of cuts call for. The key is getting the thickness of the hinge set properly, before the tree starts to fall. As Beenthere noted, you can often do this with a normal back cut, if you work quickly - the tree may start moving slightly, but if you are quick, you can get the hinge narrow enough to avoid barber chair.  Using a bore cut means you don't have to be quick.

What CCC4 did is a little different than what I described. He did not make a notch at all, just brought his bore up close to the front of the tree. The little bit he left started out acting as a hinge, until it peeled down the stump.  If you are able to judge the hinge correctly, the hinge will either bend and eventually break, or peel down the stump as shown in the video. If you leave the hinge too thick (among other factors), you may get barber chair. If you try to cut it too thin, you might not get any "steering" of the tree on its way down, or the tree could settle forward, pinching your saw in the bore cut.

In my opinion, CCC4's method may take a little more judgement and experience to stop the bore the appropriate distance from the forward edge of the trunk.  CCC4 has that experience. I'm not so sure that I do... so I tend to make the notch, even when I'm filling in the direction of the lean.  I may play around with his method when I'm cutting some firewood trees... no great loss if I mess up the but end of the log when it's all getting cut to 16" and split anyway.

[treeslayer2003]

hey guys, C4 and I and alot of southern guys came up stump jumping. if you get good at it, it means you got really good at judging lean and know how trees react. if your not comfortable trying this then don't.

you can gol those leaners or i like to bore the heart out of them leaving the hinge on each side. or you could use a coos bay like our western friends do but thats pretty technical and ya need one of those guys to explain it.

[Brleclaire]

You could go pay $500,000 for a feller buncher with a hot saw and cut those leaners off in the time it takes to blink your eye. The cut that CCC4 does is not for the faint of heart or inexperienced cutter. You have to know your trees and how the fibers in them react or the situation can turn from cutting a tree down into a foot race with the butt of the tree. That's what I call the sawyer shuffle.

[thenorthman]

Ok I'll wade in on this one...

C4 did an excellent job on a scetchy snag.  Aint no question who the man is...

That being said...

The Coos Bay.

Make yer felling notch, but probably a little on the shallow side, although deeper is better.

Then level or just above with the gun cut nip both side creating a triangle that doesn't quite meet on the back side, or meets and then some,

Then dog in hard, and go like Hel until she commits, with luck and a little skill you should be able to blast through the first half of the back cut and relieve most of the danger from a barber chair and still be able to "steer" the tree a bit if needed.

Benefit over the GOL is its loads faster, and like I said you have the ability to cut one side or the other to help steer as its falling, GOL (SSD) is pull the trigger and hope you got it right the first time.

The other form of the Coos is making a T shap rather then a triangle, the top of the T is your hold/hinge wood, the leg being all thats left of the back cut other wise they work about the same, I preffer the Triangle since its ever so slightly faster, although the T is arguably safer.

[Ianab]

I prefer the GOL method for those.

Shallow notch, just far enough in to let you form a decent hinge. Then you bore and get your hinge just right. Those are the 2 most important parts of the operation. You get those right first, when there is no chance of the tree moving. You can take you time, and get them right.  Then you cut back towards the back, leaving your trigger. Then finally you cut that and get the heck out of there as soon as the tree starts to move.  ;)

I'm not up close completing the hinge as the tree is starting to move, I'm already 2 paces away in the other direction. It's not "cut and hope" because I've set things up as I want them to happen.

Reason I cut a notch rather than doing nothing like the video is that you still have some control. Once that front wood has slabbed out, gravity is the only factor. No more steering, no more keeping the butt attached to the stump while you escape. Now 99 out of 100 this wont matter, the tree just falls like it did in the clip. But I like that control of the situation.

Often the leaners I'm working with are pretty big, 3 ft+, so I'm cutting from both sides anyway. That's where taking your time and getting the hinge cut right are a big plus.

Ian

[CCC4]

Guys, I apologize for posting the leaner video. I knew better but was proud of the execution of the cut and it's effectiveness. My preferred cut for leaners is a conventional with the heart gutted from the face. What didn't show up in the video as well I wished was the fact that the top was parallel with the ground for 20 feet or better.

Anyway, here is another method for headleaners that I use 90% of the time and it's a little more acceptable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG9MeDp4Vp8&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA

[treeslayer2003]

Guys, I apologize for posting the leaner video. I knew better but was proud of the execution of the cut and it's effectiveness. My preferred cut for leaners is a conventional with the heart gutted from the face. What didn't show up in the video as well I wished was the fact that the top was parallel with the ground for 20 feet or better.

Anyway, here is another method for headleaners that I use 90% of the time and it's a little more acceptable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG9MeDp4Vp8&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA

i saw it, thats why i called it a rainbow. iv done it before bro just not lately. least i know what your talkin about now.

[thenorthman]

No need to apologize, ya did fine.  Some folks get scared by less then conventional methods, which is ok too.

Hel I might even try that trick on the next heavy leaner I find, gods know the last one I had like that didn't go so well...

[John Mc]

No need to apologize.  The video sparked some good conversation. It's always interesting to see how different people handle a situation.

[northfield]

Great job done on all those cuts. I would love to work with you for a winter fallin trees, as Im sure most everybody on here would learn a thing or two